PDA

View Full Version : Ardent and Divine Mind: Why the Bad Rep?



Lord Iames Osari
2007-07-03, 09:17 AM
I know that Complete Psionic in general gets a bad rep, and while I agree that some of the stuff in there is total crap, I recently took another look at these two classes, and I don't dislike them. Perhaps it's because of the way I think of psionics; they're quite different in feel from the other psionic classes, but still.

The Ardent is a psionicist who draws his power from his passionate belief in a particular philosophy, but because his passion is moderated by the existance of that philosophy, it doesn't manifest itself as brief surges of power.

The Divine Mind, on the other hand, draws power partly from his faith in a deity and partly from the deity itself. Or, looked at another way, perhaps the Divine Mind is a tiny aspect of his deity given mortal form, able to draw on the deity's innate power.

Now, it's true that both of these classes, and especially the second, blur the line separating psionics and divine magic, but I think I alot of the opposition to them is a result of people not wanting to have to re-examine their preconceptions about psionics.

Just my $0.02.

CockroachTeaParty
2007-07-03, 11:42 AM
Personally, I bear no ill will towards the Ardent. I actually find them pretty cool. If I was to be a psionic character in real life, I would probably be an Ardent, for I believe in the power of philosophies and thought processes a great deal. Plus, they allow you to play a neutral character devoted to balance. You could take the Life and Death mantles, for instance, or the Good and Evil mantles, utilizing their powers when the situation warrants their use.

Now, the actual functioning of the Divine Mind's powers is not my problem with the class. My beef with them is how underpowered the class is. They don't start getting decent until mid to high levels, and even then their power progressions are pathetic compared to any other psionic class. As a quick fix, I usually houserule that they have a fighter's BAB, but otherwise they just sort of... suck. I would never seriously play one without some serious alterations to the class.

puppyavenger
2007-07-03, 12:20 PM
Mine is How does a deities power giives peaple the power to manipulate realite with there mind, ic for it's just a cleiric for Psionics.

Edit also exactly how does one become a "conduit for there diety"?

ZeroNumerous
2007-07-03, 12:35 PM
Ardent: I have no problems.

Divine Mind: The concept is retarded. Psionics is about the power of the self and individual subverting reality. It's not about a god granting a character the power to do so. Thats what Clerics do. It'd be like making a holy warrior who can touch people to heal them but he has to adhere to this code and can't cast any worthwhile spells. Oh, wait, Paladin. Ya, a cleric exists so that crap like Divine Mind(and Paladins) don't have to.

Lord Iames Osari
2007-07-03, 12:38 PM
Mine is How does a deities power giives peaple the power to manipulate realite with there mind, ic for it's just a cleiric for Psionics.

Edit also exactly how does one become a "conduit for there diety"?

Please, puppyavenger, make an effort to use proper spelling.

As for how a deity's power gives people the power to manipulate reality with their minds, perhaps the deity touched the developing mind of unborn child. Perhaps the deity invested a tiny portion of its own self into the child. Who the heck knows? They're deities, they don't have to explain themselves to us. :smallbiggrin:

And ZN, the way I see it, it's not that the deity is granting the Divine Mind that power; the Divine Mind possesses some measure of power already and chooses to use it in the service of the deity and create an intimate bond between the two.

ZeroNumerous
2007-07-03, 02:53 PM
And ZN, the way I see it, it's not that the deity is granting the Divine Mind that power; the Divine Mind possesses some measure of power already and chooses to use it in the service of the deity and create an intimate bond between the two.

That makes me like it even less. Like Gods of Arcane Magic, that concept makes no sense. A psionic person or object is a thing of it's own power, it is not god-granted or god-given. If anything, it is proof that god-given/granted powers are not the end all.

stainboy
2007-07-03, 04:13 PM
In concept, Divine Mind works for priests of psionic deities. It makes sense to me that an illithid priest would channel psionic power from Ilsensine rather than praying for spells.

Whether we need a class just for illithid priests of Ilsensine is another matter, as is whether said class is even remotely balanced.

Callix
2007-07-03, 04:22 PM
Personally, I don't have that much beef with the Ardent, although they have very limited power selection at low levels, and are a bit mechanically weak. The divine mind has a few limited situations where it might be useful, but frankly I'd rather roleplay a particularly devout psychic warrior. My real problem is that I never get the chance to play anything like this. For some reason, I always end up party healer.