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BisectedBrioche
2007-07-03, 09:56 AM
This is a prestige class based around the use of words. It uses its own magic system partially inspired by the one in Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_darkness). I could do with some suggestions for more words.

Linguamancer (Yes, I do know it mixes Greek and Latin root words)

d4

Requirements
Abilities: At least 5 languages known, must be literate
Skills: 5 ranks or more in three of the following: Decipher Script, Speak Language, Diplomacy and Concentration
Feats: Persuasive, Negotiator,
Special: Must have access to a library (or similar area of study) to gain the first level

Class Skills: Concentration, Decifer Script, Diplomacy, Speak Language, Use Magic Device, Profession, Knowledge, Gather Information, Bluff, Sense Motive


{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Max Paper

1st|
+0|
+0|
+1|
+2|Arcane Pen, Prepare paper|5

2nd|
+0|
+0|
+1|
+3|Sticks and Stones|6

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+2|
+4|+1 Bonus language|7

4th|
+1|
+1|
+3|
+4|Semantics|8

5th|
+1|
+2|
+5|
+4|Silver Tongue, Neologism|9

6th|
+2|
+2|
+6|
+6|+1 Bonus language|10

7th|
+3|
+2|
+6|
+6|Big Sticks and Heavy Stones|11

8th|
+4|
+3|
+6|
+8|Hidden Code, Elaborated Code|12

9th|
+5|
+3|
+7|
+8|+1 Bonus language|13

10th|
+5|
+3|
+7|
+10|Hand Writing|14[/table]

Arcane Pen (Sp) To cast spells a linguamancer must write a symbol on a single sheet of a special paper using this device. If a linguamancer loses their pen then they must make a new one (craft DC 10) which takes a week and 500XP. If it is damage then it may not be used until it is repaired (craft DC 10) which takes 1d6+1 days and 250 XP. See below for more details.

Prepare Paper (Sp) To cast spells a linguamancer must have a sheet of specially prepared paper. 10 sheets cost 1gp and weigh 1lb. They must meditate for 1 hour to prepare the paper for later spell use. The amount of paper a linguamancer may have prepared is equal to 4 + their linguamancer level. Prepared paper reverts to normal after the linguamancer rests. See below for more details.

Sticks and Stones (Sp) A linguamancer is so well intertwined with words that they get a +1 to save against any spell with a verbal component. Any spell which has nothing but verbal components used against the linguamancer has a 25% chance of failing. For the purpose of this ability feats which remove the need to have certain components (e.g. Silent spell) are ignored.

+1 Bonus language (Ex) At third level and every three levels thereafter a linguamancer may gain an extra language without the need to spend skill points.

Semantics (Ex) If a linguamancer can hear and see someone speaking a language they do not understand they may make an int check to try and discern what they are saying. Roll the dice, add the modifier and consult the table below to see what information is gained;


{table=head]Roll|Information
5|The tone of his voice (friendly, hostile, etc)
10|The subject (politics, money, gossip, etc)
15|The specifics (name of people, type of treasure etc)
20|The literal meaning of the words
25|Any metaphors or figures of speech that could cause a quibble[/table]

Big Sticks and Heavy Stones (Ex) This is the same as sticks and stones but they take a +2 bonus against spells with a verbal component and purely verbal spells have a 50% failure chance. For the purpose of this ability feats which remove the need to have certain components (e.g. Silent spell) are ignored.

Hidden Code (Ex) The linguamancer may write a message on any surface in hidden code. A message written in a hidden code appears as a meaningless jumble of letters under normal circumstances. However it is a complicated mix of technical terms, in jokes and riddles made so only specific people can understand it. The linguamancer must make an intelligence check and consult the table below.


{table=head]Recipient|DC

Members of an organisation/class/professional|15
Specific individual (friend)|25
Specific individual (stranger)|30[/table]

The DC for the intended recipient to understand the message is the DC for creating the message minus the linguamancer's dice roll + his intelligence modifier. The DC for someone who is not supposed to read the message is equal to the dice roll.

For example, if a linguamancer tried to write a message to a friend, the DC would be 25. If they rolled a 12 and had an intelligence modifier of +3 then the DC for anyone but the friend to read the message would be 15, while the DC for the friend to read the message would be (25 - 15 = 10).

Elaborated Code (Ex) Elaborated code is the exact opposite to a hidden code. The linguamancer may write a message which uses universal features from all languages which all creatures that are able to speak the language can understand easily. The DC to create the message is equal to 5 for every language the linguamancer knows and wants to incorporate into the message, plus 10 for every language the linguamancer does not know but wishes to incorporate. The linguamancer must succeed on an intelligence check to create the message, failure means the message is not readable. The DC to read the message is 15 minus 5 for every language incorporated into the message that the reader knows.

Silver Tongue (Ex) The linguamancer is an excellent conversationalist. All checks made to communicate with another being (diplomacy, sense motive, bluff, forgery (of documents), etc) may have half of his linguamancer level added.

Neologism (Sp) See Below

Hand Writing (Sp) Once per day (when they are preparing their paper) the linguamancer may scribe a spell to their hand instead of some paper. The symbol is not visible but the hand will glow faintly under a reveal magic spell. They may cast the spell once at any time as a free action, they must then wait until the next day to recast the spell (or a different one).

Casting Spells

To cast a spell a linguamancer must have two things, a sheet of paper and their Arcane Pen. The paper can be obtained quite easily (as a generic item with a craft(wood) DC of 5 for 10 sheets, or 1gp for 10 sheets) but it must be specially prepared by meditating on it for 15 minutes. The linguamancer must sleep for the appropriate length of time before preparing another "batch" of paper. The Arcane Pen is a quill, fountain pen etc (player's preference) crafted by the linguamancer which they use to write on their paper to cast spells. It does not need ink for this purpose but does contain a "charge". An Arcane Pen has 100 (with an extra 10 gained for every linguamancer level) charges which are restored when the linguamancer sleeps, the charges are used when the player casts a spell. Some of the "words" used to make a spell use more charges than others.

To cast a spell the linguamancer writes a "rune" on one of their sheets of paper. A rune is made up of three "words" written on top of each other, a noun, a verb and an adjective. The words are described in more details below, each one controls one specific aspect of the spell. Casting a spell is a standard action (unless otherwise noted) and requires a concentration check if there is a distraction, as an arcane caster would. Paper with an unused spell scribed to it stops working after 1 hour. The DM has the final say on what effect a spell has.

Noun

The noun part of a rune defines the target of the spell. After the rune is drawn on the paper then the spell must be cast in a way according to the noun. The following is a list of some sample nouns.

Creature The spell targets a single creature (willing or not) as a touch attack. To use this the caster must hold the paper in their hand and touch the creature, they may not touch themselves. This uses 5 charges from the pen.

Area The spell fills a circle shaped area. The radius its 20ft by default but the caster may expend more charges to increase this. To use this the caster must either drop the paper or throw it, the spell is centered on wherever it lands. It may be thrown anywhere within 30ft. of the caster, treat it as a ranged attack on the square it is aimed at, alternatively the linguamancer may make the spell into a paper plane (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2833115#post2833115) the next round. This increases the cost of the spell by the cost of the verb *X. X is equal to 2 + 1 for every 10ft. the radius is extended by.

Self This targets the caster. To use it they must push the paper against themselves. This uses 5 charges from the pen.

Symbol The paper is pressed against a surface and the rune is transferred. The spell is activated (and effects) any creature which looks at the rune. The rune disappears after one use. This uses 10 charges.

Ray The paper is held in the hand and the spell is "fired" at the target as a ranged touch attack. This uses 5 charges + 1 for each additional 5ft. the caster wishes to add to the maximum range (max Linguamancer level*10). The default maximum range is 10ft..

Verb

The Verb is the part of the rune which defines the effect of the spell. Different verbs have different costs (as with the noun). The following is a list of verbs.

Damaged Spells with this verb will damage health in some way. The damage is always Xd6. The cost is 5 charges plus 5 more for every extra dice of damage to a maximum of 6d6.

Badly Damaged Spells with this verb will damage health in some way. The damage is always Xd10. The cost is 10 charges plus 10 more for every extra dice of damage to a maximum of 6d10.

Healed The same as damaged but it restores hit points. When used as a neologism it tends to make the verb more beneficial

Slowed Functions as the slow spell, costs 5 charges per round to a maximum of the caster's caster level.

Quickened Functions as the haste spell, costs 5 charges per round to a maximum of the caster's caster level.

Disguised Target is transformed as per the disguise self spell. Each aspect changed (hair, cloths, gender etc) cost 2 charges each.

Morphed Transforms the target as per the baneful polymorph spell. costs 5 charges per size category the creature is reduced by, to a minimum of 10.

Teleported The target is transported as per the teleport spell. costs 20 charges.

Dispelled Cancels the effect of any magic on target, magical items and spell like abilities are suppressed. Costs 5 charges

Illusion Creates an illusion as per silent illusion in, around or on the target. Costs 10 charges.

Repairing Repairs damaged objects as per the make whole spell. Costs 5 charges.

Adjective

The adjective defines the nature of the spell. This usually means the type of damage it deals but it can vary.

None The spell has no specific domain. Any damage is considered melee damage.

Burning The spell is of the fire domain. Any damage is considered fire damage.

Freezing The spell is of the ice domain. Any damage is considered cold damage.

Shocking The spell is of the electric domain. Any damage is considered shock damage.

Rocky The spell is of the earth domain. Any damage is considered bludgeoning damage.

Purifying The spell is of the Holy domain. Any damage is considered good aligned damage.

Blaspheming The spell is of the Evil domain. Any damage is considered evil aligned damage.

Organising The spell is of the law domain. Any damage is considered law aligned damage.

Disorganising The spell is of the chaotic domain. Any damage is considered chaotic aligned damage.

Restoring The spell deals out positive energy damage (this may not restore HP).

Draining The spell deals out negative energy damage.

Neologisms

Rather than learning a new word the linguamancer may combine two he already knows, the result is known as a neologism. A neologism is made of two words (of the same type) and functions as any other word would. For example the Area and Self nouns could be combined to create a noun which uses the caster as the midpoint for the spell's active area or the Slowly and Healed verbs could be combined to create a verb which heals over time. The charges expended by the word are equal to 75% of the sum of both its root words. The DM has the final say on what effect a neologism has.

To create a neologism the linguamancer must have;


Used both root words in a spell 5 times each
Access to a library for the appropriate length of time
A free slot to learn the word once it has been created


The neologism takes 1d4 days to create and costs an amount of XP equivalent to twice the charge it will drain from the pen when it is being used. Once it has been created it is added to the linguamancer's list and may be used as any other word would for the purpose of casting a spell and creating neologisms.

Meta-Magic

If a linguamancer chooses they may apply meta-magic to a spell. This means that they are essentially casting a spell on their spell.

To enhance a rune with metamagic the caster must take a full round action to cast it. The linguamancer must (after writing the rune) flip the paper over and write another rune on the back using the following special words;

Noun

Spell The spell is targeted at a spell drawn on the same sheet of paper as the one this is a component of. This noun may not be used in a neologism, is always known by linguamancers (without the need to use up a slot) and uses up no charges.

Adjective

Paragon The spell is designed specifically to empower another spell. This adjective may not be used in a neologism, is always known by linguamancers (without the need to use up a slot) and uses up no charges.

Adverbs
Adverbs are the important part of the metamagic. They define the enhancement and the additional cost to the spell the metamagic provides. New adverbs may be made as neologisms as any other group of words would.

Slowly The spell is delayed for one round. This costs charges equivalent to 5% of the spells total charge.

Tenaciously The spell becomes harder to resist. All save DCs are increased by 5 and the caster is treated as having a +1 bonus. This costs charges equivalent to 5% of the spells total charge.

Words Per Level

The following table shows how many words of each type (including neologisms) a linguamancer may learn per level. To learn new words a linguamancer must visit a library for 1 hour.


{table=head]Level|Nouns|Verbs|Adjectives

1st|
3|
3|
3|
+2

2nd|
3|
4|
3|
+3

3rd|
3|
4|
3|
+4

4th|
4|
5|
3|
+4

5th|
4|
5|
4|
+4

6th|
5|
5|
5|
+6

7th|
5|
6|
6|
+6

8th|
6|
6|
6|
+8

9th|
6|
7|
6|
+8

10th|
6|
10|
6|
+10[/table]

A linguamancer may forget a word so they can learn a different one (or a neologism) by studying for a week (they displace the word from their mind by studying a subject they find particularly difficult to grasp). If they forget a neologism they may relearn it later at half the XP cost.

Fualkner Asiniti
2007-07-03, 10:01 AM
AWESOME.

This is simply great.

jindra34
2007-07-03, 10:09 AM
seems a little reminesecnt of ninjas... and runes.

BisectedBrioche
2007-07-03, 10:12 AM
seems a little reminesecnt of ninjas... and runes.

Runes I can understand, but what have ninjas got to do with it?

Xuincherguixe
2007-07-03, 10:19 AM
Obviously because Ninjas can do everything anyone else can do better. Why? Because they're Ninjas.

jindra34
2007-07-03, 10:22 AM
Obviously because Ninjas can do everything anyone else can do better. Why? Because they're Ninjas.

NO because the method reminds me of ninja tags... which fit the description of these peices of paper quite well.

BisectedBrioche
2007-07-03, 10:25 AM
NO because the method reminds me of ninja tags... which fit the description of these peices of paper quite well.

Ninjas play tag?

jindra34
2007-07-03, 10:27 AM
Ninjas play tag?

Ninja Tags are special prepared peices of paper written on with specially prepared ink that do things supernatural... though its usually blowing up...

Poppatomus
2007-07-03, 10:31 AM
that is truly spectacular. An achievement of both fluff and crunch (too bad the Prc with your name in it contest was so long ago.)


One thing I would say, though, is that bigger sticks and heavy stones, should probably just be called "but words can never hurt me."

mikeejimbo
2007-07-03, 10:40 AM
Naive foolish question here: What's with the reflex saves?

BisectedBrioche
2007-07-03, 10:42 AM
that is truly spectacular. An achievement of both fluff and crunch (too bad the Prc with your name in it contest was so long ago.)


One thing I would say, though, is that bigger sticks and heavy stones, should probably just be called "but words can never hurt me."

Technically its my avatar and not my username.

I considered using that name but I decided that it would be better to make sure that it was clear that Bigger Sticks and Heavy stones was an improved form of Sticks and Stones.

BisectedBrioche
2007-07-03, 10:43 AM
Naive foolish question here: What's with the reflex saves?

You'd know if you borrowed books from a library on a regular basis.

TheLogman
2007-07-03, 11:07 AM
Wow, this is like the Truenamer, except it's an actually good class. This is what the Truenamers should be.

Leaving that aside, excellent Prestige Class, probably for a (smart/studious) Bard, but I can see a Wizard or the party mouthpiece (Probably rouge) taking this. What spells require only verbal components? The only ones I can think of are animate plants, and the 4 alignment spells (Blasphemy, Dictum, Holy Word, Word of Chaos)

jindra34
2007-07-03, 11:14 AM
I request more words.

BisectedBrioche
2007-07-03, 11:28 AM
I request more words.

Are these ones OK? :smallamused:

I'll add more later, when I've had my Metroid fix.


Leaving that aside, excellent Prestige Class, probably for a (smart/studious) Bard, but I can see a Wizard or the party mouthpiece (Probably rouge) taking this. What spells require only verbal components? The only ones I can think of are animate plants, and the 4 alignment spells (Blasphemy, Dictum, Holy Word, Word of Chaos)

From the SRD: Wish, Mage’s Disjunction, Glossolalia, Command Plants, Command, Irresistible Dance, Dictum, Blur, Word of Recall, Knock, Maddening Scream, Teleport, Shout, Animate Plants, Wail of the Banshee and many more.

jindra34
2007-07-03, 11:56 AM
Are these ones OK? :smallamused:

I'll add more later, when I've had my Metroid fix.


The current words are fine i just want more...

Morty
2007-07-03, 12:25 PM
Jst to clarify: Linguamancer can prepare one "spell" per day and use it as much as he can?
Otherwise, pure awesome.

KingGolem
2007-07-03, 12:48 PM
Incredible! Bisected8, this class is awesome, and so are you for making it. :smallcool: :smallsmile:

However, I have one question concerning the Sticks and Stones and Big Sticks and Heavy Stones ability. It says that any spell with only verbal components has a 25%/50% chance of failure. Does this apply to a spell with the Eschew Materials and Still Spell feats applied to it?

BisectedBrioche
2007-07-03, 12:48 PM
Jst to clarify: Linguamancer can prepare one "spell" per day and use it as much as he can?
Otherwise, pure awesome.

No, he can cast a number of spells per day which are created on the spot from a series of component "words" which are limited to the amount of specially prepared bits of paper he carries (each spell uses up one sheet).

At 10th level he can scribe a spell onto his hand which can be cast once without any need for prior preparation as a free action.


Incredible! Bisected8, this class is awesome, and so are you for making it. :smallcool: :smallsmile:

However, I have one question concerning the Sticks and Stones and Big Sticks and Heavy Stones ability. It says that any spell with only verbal components has a 25%/50% chance of failure. Does this apply to a spell with the Eschew Materials and Still Spell feats applied to it?

Good question. I would say no, seeing as the spells still have the components, they just have an alternative method of expressing them.

BisectedBrioche
2007-07-03, 02:34 PM
I've added a few new words. Any suggestions for new ones (particularly verbs) would be welcome.

jindra34
2007-07-03, 02:36 PM
How much XP does a pen take?

BisectedBrioche
2007-07-03, 02:38 PM
How much XP does a pen take?

If you mean to craft: I knew I forgot something.

jindra34
2007-07-03, 02:49 PM
If you mean to craft: I knew I forgot something.

yes thats exactly what i mean.

Fizban
2007-07-03, 03:16 PM
Two nitpicks:

I'd take the "plus 10 charges per linguamancer level" out of the parenthesis, I missed it the first time through for some reason because of them.

You seem to have quite a few adverbs in the verb section, if I remember my definition of adverb correctly. They could be changed easily enough.

It seems like a good class, a unique casting style that seems effective, but I have no idea if it would actually be effective in play. Which means that someone has to go playtest it on the boards and tell us how it works out. :smallcool:

KBF
2007-07-03, 03:35 PM
Lostmagic.

The spell system is near-exactly like the DS game Lostmagic. May I 'borrow' the spell system from you?


EDIT: Needs a way to boost stats, though it could be abusive with the area of effect noun.

Callix
2007-07-03, 03:56 PM
Is it just me, or can this give a second-level rogue or bard Wish 1/day? If so, this might just mess with power balance. Maybe put level limits on some verbs. Also, Good/Evil is not Positive/Negative, and Positive Energy Damage only applies to undead. Maybe make it so that the phrase has no effect on creatures of opposing (if beneficial) or the same (if harmful) "moral" alignment (good-evil)?

Jack_Simth
2007-07-03, 04:37 PM
Analysis notes:

Why bother with Self, when it costs the same as Touch, and Touch effects can be used on the caster?

Charge cost on Noun: Ray?

Verb: Morphed: So... what happens if I want to make one thing into another of the same size or larger?

A Wish affecting a single touch-range target at level 3 for 315 XP? Bard-2: Concentration, Decipher Script, and Speak Language are all class skills, so you can have five ranks in each at level 2 - easily - with an Intelligence score of 6 (you'll need a few ranks for Speak Language). Bards are by default Literate. The sentance "Creature Altered None" costs 105 charges, and you have 100 charges + 10 per class level - so 110 at at Bard-2/Linguimancer-1. It costs 3 times the charges in XP, so 105*3=315 xp spent. It's still only one/day, but.... umm.... No?

Closet_Skeleton
2007-07-03, 04:52 PM
(Yes, I do know it mixes Greek and Latin root words)

Heteroradical you might say...

BisectedBrioche
2007-07-03, 05:07 PM
Analysis notes:

Why bother with Self, when it costs the same as Touch, and Touch effects can be used on the caster?

Charge cost on Noun: Ray?

Verb: Morphed: So... what happens if I want to make one thing into another of the same size or larger?

A Wish affecting a single touch-range target at level 3 for 315 XP? Bard-2: Concentration, Decipher Script, and Speak Language are all class skills, so you can have five ranks in each at level 2 - easily - with an Intelligence score of 6 (you'll need a few ranks for Speak Language). Bards are by default Literate. The sentance "Creature Altered None" costs 105 charges, and you have 100 charges + 10 per class level - so 110 at at Bard-2/Linguimancer-1. It costs 3 times the charges in XP, so 105*3=315 xp spent. It's still only one/day, but.... umm.... No?

I've add the cost to ray, added a minimum cost for Morphed, added a note to creature (which isn't the same as touch) and removed Altered (you're right, its too overpowered).

I'd also like to point out that the spells produce runes, not sentences.


Two nitpicks:

I'd take the "plus 10 charges per linguamancer level" out of the parenthesis, I missed it the first time through for some reason because of them.

You seem to have quite a few adverbs in the verb section, if I remember my definition of adverb correctly. They could be changed easily enough.

It seems like a good class, a unique casting style that seems effective, but I have no idea if it would actually be effective in play. Which means that someone has to go playtest it on the boards and tell us how it works out. :smallcool:

Did you just correct my grammar?

Rama_Lei
2007-07-03, 05:28 PM
I love it but some of the naming seems off.

Blaspheming should be Blasphemous

Organized should be Axiomatic

Unorganized should be Anarchic..

Other than that, great

Pronounceable
2007-07-03, 06:15 PM
This is just what I've been thinking about. For some very long time, I've been trying to homebrew some magic system of combining specific "magic formulas" into a spell. I didn't think to limit it to 3 pieces, but it does seem a good way.

It wasn't your intention, but you've just helped me greatly. Thanks for that.


And the system is very good itself. Can there be some metawords (or fonts perhaps) that enhance the spells somewhat? Like *subscripted* sets all dice to 1, *superscripted* sets all dice to max, *bold* increases die type, *underlined* affecting the saves, etc?

Shades of Gray
2007-07-03, 06:39 PM
Class skills? HD? Otherwise awesome class.

Saeveo
2007-07-03, 07:02 PM
Looks pretty sweet, though the Words in the verb section should probably be verbs, rather than adjectives... and a noun. So Damaged becomes Damage and Illusion becomes Illudere, and so on. But that's really just fluff.

CabbageTheif
2007-07-03, 08:20 PM
with this setup you dont need metawords. new feats fo the class may be something like

Shorthand where any message you write can be under 20 words and convey the meaning of 40 words.
or
Caligraphy expertise where when you cast your runes, because of the elaborate flow of the pen, your foes become dazzled along with any other effects of the spell.

but as for new words, i think that the metamagic feats could be turned into adjectives. you have a bunch of damage adjectives, but lets go with another route

NOUN self VERB teleport ADJECTIVE speedy= quickened teleportation spell

NOUN area VERB illusion ADJECTIVE flashy= just like the feat above, this makes the spell morre ellaborate.

you can also change words around. illusion in the adjective domain would cause any teleport, heal, damage, ect to not be real. NOUN enemy VERB damage ADJECTIVE illusionary means that it looks like you cast a damage spell on your friend, and your friend looks hurt; but in fact he is fine,, and during the confusion you two excape

just some thoughts

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2007-07-03, 08:27 PM
It's like an entirely new TYPE of magic, not just school. It actually sounds alot like Grammarye from the Inheritance series. (Eragon, Eldest, and the new one)

Fizban
2007-07-03, 08:43 PM
Did you just correct my grammar?

Yes. And other people have noticed it too. :smalltongue:

Slartibartfast
2007-07-03, 09:57 PM
This is a cool class. Just a few things though: One, as more of a fluffy correction, languages fall under "skills" not "abilities" as one of the skills is even called Speak Languages granting bonus languages.

As a more important matter, your Area noun costs LESS then your Creature of Self nouns. It's the same price for a 50 foot radius or a single-target spell! Also, you might want to change the rules for finding the center of the Area noun effect unless you want to make up rules for how paper airplanes fly. :smallbiggrin: It might also be wise to either make the Area noun cost WAY MORE than the others or give it a lessened effect. Just adding on to KBF's concern noted earlier, although less coherently.

Saeveo
2007-07-04, 03:31 AM
but as for new words, i think that the metamagic feats could be turned into adjectives. you have a bunch of damage adjectives, but lets go with another route

NOUN self VERB teleport ADJECTIVE speedy= quickened teleportation spell

NOUN area VERB illusion ADJECTIVE flashy= just like the feat above, this makes the spell morre ellaborate.

you can also change words around. illusion in the adjective domain would cause any teleport, heal, damage, ect to not be real. NOUN enemy VERB damage ADJECTIVE illusionary means that it looks like you cast a damage spell on your friend, and your friend looks hurt; but in fact he is fine,, and during the confusion you two excape

just some thoughts

Or, keep the damage adjectives and use adverbs for metamagic. As in "Quickly" for Quickened spells, "Silently" for Silent spells and so on. Then there's no need to rework the damage adjectives.

This reminds me a little of the spell system from Rudora no Hihou, actually.

BisectedBrioche
2007-07-04, 05:46 AM
I've added a version of the metamagic system using adverbs (I'd be grateful for any suggestions for more adverbs BTW). I've also added a hit dice, class skills and made a minimum character level of 10 as a requirement.

Drager
2007-07-04, 08:57 AM
Maybe you could change th names of Hidden Code and Elaborated Code to make them more obvious maybe something like

Hidden Cipher and Elaborated Code?

As encoding something is making it easier to read, whereas things that have been made so only those with special knowledge can read them are ciphers... just an idea.

BisectedBrioche
2007-07-04, 10:19 AM
Maybe you could change th names of Hidden Code and Elaborated Code to make them more obvious maybe something like

Hidden Cipher and Elaborated Code?

As encoding something is making it easier to read, whereas things that have been made so only those with special knowledge can read them are ciphers... just an idea.

Actually its a reference to the terms in sociology. Basically hidden code is colloquial language, elaborated code is the common dialect of a language.

Fawsto
2007-07-04, 06:32 PM
One Word: Wow!

TO_Incognito
2007-07-04, 11:31 PM
I do like this idea; the idea of a rune system in D&D is very cool. Still, I've skimmed the replies, and I haven't seen it mentioned yet: Those BaB and save progressions make me want to cry. Please just give the guy poor BaB, poor Fort, and good Ref and Will.

Icewalker
2007-07-04, 11:40 PM
Wow, this is very very awesome. Albeit quite complex. I stopped a little ways into Neologisms :smalleek:


I really like it, especially the creativity available for the class. DM and player creating new words, combining them, etc.

BisectedBrioche
2007-07-05, 05:01 AM
I do like this idea; the idea of a rune system in D&D is very cool. Still, I've skimmed the replies, and I haven't seen it mentioned yet: Those BaB and save progressions make me want to cry. Please just give the guy poor BaB, poor Fort, and good Ref and Will.

I thought I did?

SensFan
2007-07-05, 11:29 AM
minimum character level of 10 as a requirement.
I dislike using level as a requirement. Perhaps find some other way of restricting it to high-level characters (ei: 13 ranks in a skill, several featsm etc...)

Ceiling009
2007-07-05, 01:18 PM
Is there a way to... well, in essence, can you scribe scrolls for yourself or other linguamancers... like let's say you wrote down something like Ray Damage Frost... then added meta magic parts like Quickly (Quickened), Brilliantly (Dazes target also) things like that... also does the prepared paper ever go bad? Let's say, I take a week to make paper... and pretty much do nothing else, I make 14 a day, so at the end I get 98 sheets of paper at the end of the week? Cause I could feasibly see someone carrying around sheets of paper in a holster like things with at least 10 sheets in each...

BisectedBrioche
2007-07-05, 03:16 PM
Is there a way to... well, in essence, can you scribe scrolls for yourself or other linguamancers... like let's say you wrote down something like Ray Damage Frost... then added meta magic parts like Quickly (Quickened), Brilliantly (Dazes target also) things like that... also does the prepared paper ever go bad? Let's say, I take a week to make paper... and pretty much do nothing else, I make 14 a day, so at the end I get 98 sheets of paper at the end of the week? Cause I could feasibly see someone carrying around sheets of paper in a holster like things with at least 10 sheets in each...

If a linguamancer "charges" it then it reverts back to normal paper the next day. He only gets 14 spells per day basically.

TheEscapist
2007-07-05, 03:44 PM
I've gotta say, I REALLY like this class. Two things (well, two things for the creator, and one thing to one of the previous comments), though:

#1 - with the complicated nature of the linguamancer's spellcasting method, I think this would actually be better suited as a 20-level base class. I'm not sure I've ever seen a PrC that departs so drastically from the methods of any previous base class. PrCs seem designed to elaborate on the abilities of one or more base classes (the ones who can achieve the prereqs most easily) or reward the less likely base classes with a suite of another base class's modified abilities.

#2 - The term "sticks and stones" makes perfect sense, but the "big sticks and heavy stones" term sounds a bit silly. Going by the precedents set by other PrCs, why not just word the "sticks and stones" description as follows:

"A linguamancer is so well intertwined with words that they get a +1 to save against any spell with a verbal component. Any spell which has nothing but verbal components used against the linguamancer has a 25% chance of failing. For the purpose of this ability feats which remove the need to have certain components (e.g. Silent spell) are ignored. At 7th level, these bonuses improve to +2 to saves and a 50% chance of spell failure."

#3 - (Mostly to Jindra, but also to any other Japanese mysticism enthusiasts who might be reading) The paper charms you call "ninja tags" are actually associated with Chinese taoist mysticism and onmyodo, the Japanese system of mysticism that emerged from it. They're supposed to be used mostly as protective charms and good luck charms, though it's the protective aspect that's used most often in fiction - sealing demons and warding off areas, and to a lesser extent like an explosive runes-type spell. Now, granted, my knowledge of this subject is far from all-encompassing, but I figured you might be interested to know where anime like Naruto and Shaman King came up with these "charm tags." They are pretty cool, after all. :smallwink:

TO_Incognito
2007-07-05, 04:31 PM
I thought I did?

Really? I still see a BaB progression and three save progressions that aren't correct on your Linguamancer chart when I refresh the first page :smallfrown: . BaB should be +0, +1, +1, +2, +2, +3, +3, +4, +4, +5; good saves +2, +3, +3, +4, +4, +5, +5, +6, +6, +7; and poor save +0, +0, +1, +1, +1, +2, +2, +2, +3, +3. What'm I missing?

Keep up the creative juices!

Jalor
2007-07-05, 05:07 PM
Excellent class. I don't really have any criticism here.

Marek
2007-07-05, 07:55 PM
Do you realize what this is? This class is made of

WIN (v.) -- fusion of O.E. winnan "struggle for, work at, strive, fight," and gewinnan "to gain or succeed by struggling, to win," both from P.Gmc. *wenwanan (cf. O.S. winnan, O.N. vinna, O.Fris. winna, Du. winnen "to gain, win," Dan. vinde "to win," O.H.G. winnan "to strive, struggle, fight," Ger. gewinnen "to gain, win," Goth. gawinnen "to suffer, toil"). Perhaps related to wish, or from PIE *van- "overcome, conquer." Sense of "to be victorious" is recorded from c.1300. The noun in O.E. meant "labor, strife, conflict;" modern sense of "a victory in a game or contest" is first attested 1862, from the verb. Breadwinner (see bread) preserves the sense of "toil" in O.E. winnan. Phrase you can't win them all (1954) first attested in Raymond Chandler

jindra34
2007-07-05, 08:17 PM
Requesting more words. such as ones that add slashing peircing and force damage types. or multiple touch. or more effects. or meta-effect them.

Slartibartfast
2007-07-05, 08:55 PM
I reiterate, since I seem to have been missed. The Area noun is way too cheap, and it is unclear how far one can throw a piece of paper. Also, does the spell still work if you make it into a paper airplane, and if so how does a paper airplane fly? As I said earlier, a 50 foot radius blast is the same cost as a single target attack.

Creature = 5
Self = 5
Area = 1 per 10 feet, minimum 20 feet (50 feet = 5 ten-foot blocks = 5)

So unless you want the linguamancers to start nuking castles (quite more literally than you would like), I advise you to make the cost of the Area noun much higher. I would suggest that it cost at least 1 point for every 5 feet in the radius, but that's optional. It at the very least needs a higher start cost, of say 7 or 10.

jindra34
2007-07-05, 08:57 PM
I reiterate, since I seem to have been missed. The Area noun is way too cheap, and it is unclear how far one can throw a piece of paper. Also, does the spell still work if you make it into a paper airplane, and if so how does a paper airplane fly? As I said earlier, a 50 foot radius blast is the same cost as a single target attack.

Creature = 5
Self = 5
Area = 1 per 10 feet, minimum 20 feet (50 feet = 5 ten-foot blocks = 5)

So unless you want the linguamancers to start nuking castles (quite more literally than you would like), I advise you to make the cost of the Area noun much higher. I would suggest that it cost at least 1 point for every 5 feet in the radius, but that's optional. It at the very least needs a higher start cost, of say 7 or 10.

ARea multiplies the verb cost by one per 10 ft. the others are flat rate.

BisectedBrioche
2007-07-06, 07:36 AM
I reiterate, since I seem to have been missed. The Area noun is way too cheap, and it is unclear how far one can throw a piece of paper. Also, does the spell still work if you make it into a paper airplane, and if so how does a paper airplane fly? As I said earlier, a 50 foot radius blast is the same cost as a single target attack.

Creature = 5
Self = 5
Area = 1 per 10 feet, minimum 20 feet (50 feet = 5 ten-foot blocks = 5)

So unless you want the linguamancers to start nuking castles (quite more literally than you would like), I advise you to make the cost of the Area noun much higher. I would suggest that it cost at least 1 point for every 5 feet in the radius, but that's optional. It at the very least needs a higher start cost, of say 7 or 10.

If you look the area noun acutally multiplies the overall cost. So it is much more expensive than the others.

Ditto
2007-07-06, 08:13 AM
TO Incognito is correct. You need to modify those Save and BAB progressions. +5 Ref just for joining a PrC? Holy crap!

BisectedBrioche
2007-07-06, 08:35 AM
Ah, I see the problem now, I've tweaked the saves and BAB.

Drager
2007-07-06, 09:05 AM
Actually its a reference to the terms in sociology. Basically hidden code is colloquial language, elaborated code is the common dialect of a language.

Ahh you were talking in sociology. I prefer english :P.

JK I didn't realise they were sociological terms. As almost all the terms in sociology are backwards or upside down compared with science and maths (things I understand) I guess that makes sense. Cool.

BisectedBrioche
2007-07-06, 02:46 PM
Ahh you were talking in sociology. I prefer english :P.

JK I didn't realise they were sociological terms. As almost all the terms in sociology are backwards or upside down compared with science and maths (things I understand) I guess that makes sense. Cool.

Oh the terms make sense. Its the attitudes I can't understand.

Slartibartfast
2008-02-26, 07:32 PM
If you look the area noun acutally multiplies the overall cost. So it is much more expensive than the others.

Whoops, missed the asterisk. That could be written more clearly, like "This increases the cost of the spell by the cost of the verb times X." Because I thought you'd typo-ed the * to the wrong side of the X for a footnote. The * works great in code, but in text it gets confusing.

Also, a purely fluff change. Everyone has been saying "Noun Verb Adjective" when it's much more natural to say "Adjective Noun Verb." Take for example what CabbageTheif wrote:

NOUN self VERB teleport ADJECTIVE speedy

NOUN area VERB illusion ADJECTIVE flashy

But if you wanted to speak it you would say "Speedy Self Teleport" or "Flashy Area Illusion." Somethings may be better as Adj. Verb Noun: "Speedy Self Teleport" or "Flashy Illusion Area." Illusion being technically a Noun probably is just an exception there, but still. Just a Fluff idea, nothing serious.

Slartibartfast
2008-10-07, 08:34 PM
Hey Bisected8, is there any chance we might see a 20-level base class version of this any time soon/ever?

That would be really cool, because I want to use the class, but it's hard to work in because it's so unique (even truenamers can't really take it on and continue a logical power flow).