(3.P)What should I do with a Whip?

[Hogsy]

As I mentioned on the title, both 3.5 and Pathfinder allowed. I am the DM so anything goes. This is a high level NPC I'm trying to make that is the leader of a demonhunting order. She's a half-saccubus & half-dragon bastard and I know she's using a whip. I also know she's level 15 and that her name is Maeve. What can I do with a whip? I mean, besides the usual trip shenanigans. I was thinking of going the magus route and applying debuffs and whatnot from a 15-ft range. I don't have a specific purpose for her, so I'm not going to build her the way I build my once-an-encounter NPCs.

She's important to the story as she's sort of the half-blood sister of one of my PCs. That is why I'd love to have her fleshed out mechanically so I could explore her as a character deeper. Knowing how she "plays" would help me with that. It'd also help with using her as an party guest once the party reaches that level range.

I'm not looking for level by level builds. Just some general ideas that I could do with a whip user.

[Gildedragon]

Well if something' going wrong, you must whip it...
Whip thing
Into shapes

[Aldrakan]

You may have taken this as a given, but just in case whip mastery (PF) lets you deal lethal damage and have the whip work on people with armor. Going further into that tree you could also use it to disarm someone with the first attack then steal their weapon with the second.

Additionally: With Improved Whip Mastery you can also have 10 ft reach for AoOs too, and with Lunge 15 ft, but only during your turn.
As a slashing weapon it also qualifies for Slashing Grace, but unfortunately that doesn't work with spell combat, so probably not the best way to go.

[Hogsy]

You may have taken this as a given, but just in case whip mastery (PF) lets you deal lethal damage and have the whip work on people with armor. Going further into that tree you could also use it to disarm someone with the first attack then steal their weapon with the second.

Additionally: With Improved Whip Mastery you can also have 10 ft reach for AoOs too, and with Lunge 15 ft, but only during your turn.
As a slashing weapon it also qualifies for Slashing Grace, but unfortunately that doesn't work with spell combat, so probably not the best way to go.

With Deadly Agility, I can apply my damage to my attacks. Bah, it's so much easier to turn her into a caster rather than... this. Why did they make using whips so unattractive? I could fit in the AoO feats somewhere in there(Combat Reflexes, Karmic Strike & Robilar's Gambit) but that would mean they reached me. Threatening 15 ft doesn't sound too bad though. I think I'll make her a Harbinger(PoW)/Magus using maneuvers and magic to alleviate from the fact that her weapon of choice is utter trash. The Greater Serpent Lash feat seems attractive though, coupled up with Seize the Opportunity (https://pathminder.github.io/feats/seize-the-opportunity/) I could be tripping people left & round during an AoO, using only one AoO.

[Telonius]

The Maiden of Pain PrC (from Players' Guide to Faerun) can let you channel touch spells through your whip. It basically increases the range of Touch spells to 15 feet. (EDIT: Gah, pathfinder again ... )

[Âmesang]

I once made a succubus cohort for an NPC cleric in 3rd Edition once; I had intended on having her use a whip simply because she got free proficiency from her bard levels… but instead I opted for a spiked chain. :smalltongue: Made it an unholy shocking weapon that raised the slain as zombies. Named it "Thunder Kiss."

[Jormengand]

Perform (Sexual techniques)? :smalltongue:

[Incorrect]

As a twist on the whip, pathfinder has a "Whip of Nope!" spell line.
Whip of Ants is a lvl 6 spell, functions like a whip, targets touch ac, deals 3d6+poison+distraction.

[Inevitability]

The Whip Climber trick from Complete Scoundrel allows you to use a whip as a grappling hook, a la Indiana Jones. It's not great, but it only costs two skill points.

[Hogsy]

Perform (Sexual techniques)? :smalltongue:

You made a funny comment, I laughed. Then I went through your homebrew and fell in love with the way you changed the Truenamer, so I'll also thank you!

[Gruftzwerg]

since we are talking about a "magical" creature (succu, dragon) a magical path would come into my mind.

Dragonmark Whip (Sorcerer/Wizard/Spellthief 3)

or for a higher lvl encounter:

Greater Dragonmark Whip (6)

- w8 +1/clvl (+10max; greater +20max)
- deliver touch spells up to lvl "4" (greater "7")
- reach 10 (greater 20) but doesn't threaten

[BearonVonMu]

There is a third party Pathfinder archetype called Blacksnake. If you have more than six or eight levels in a class that has taken that archetype, it removes almost all of the bad things about whips. You get to have threatening reach, deal lethal damage, damage enemies that are armored, and can do some cool Indiana Jones style stuff with the whip, and can have a bonus to your CMB using the whip for combat maneuvers. Take a look perhaps.

[daremetoidareyo]

Whip Climber skill trick in CS.

You can use a whip as a makeshift grappling hook, lashing it around a protrusion or other firm, weightbearing object in order to climb a wall or swing across a chasm. You make Climb checks using the whip as if it were a normal rope. Using this feat requires a Use Rope check as normal for securing a grappling hook (PH 86) but takes only a move action.

And you can use it with this: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/climb.htm)
You can use a rope to haul a character upward (or lower a character) through sheer strength. You can lift double your maximum load in this manner.

and this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/useRope.htm):
Securing a grappling hook requires a Use Rope check (DC 10, +2 for every 10 feet of distance the grappling hook is thrown, to a maximum DC of 20 at 50 feet). Failure by 4 or less indicates that the hook fails to catch and falls, allowing you to try again. Failure by 5 or more indicates that the grappling hook initially holds, but comes loose after 1d4 rounds of supporting weight. This check is made secretly, so that you don’t know whether the rope will hold your weight.

So... if you have improved grab (all you need to do is a use rope check as normal for securing a grappling hook)... and some sort of range extender... and you attack from 15' from above...you can make a use rope check to lift them up into the air an amount of height that is up to your reach, modulated by your climb check, and if you take -5 on your climb check, you can move 15 feet if your base speed is 30. These leads me to believe that you can add 1d6 fall damage on your improved grab whip climber maneuver. Usable 1/encounter.

Leaping climber skill trick will allow you to jump as a swift action with this check, and depending on your jump skill, you might be able to add 1d6- 2d6 more fall damage to this.

Speedy ascent skill trick allows you to add another 10 feet to this check and thus another 1d6 fall damage.

[Hogsy]

Whip Climber skill trick in CS.

You can use a whip as a makeshift grappling hook, lashing it around a protrusion or other firm, weightbearing object in order to climb a wall or swing across a chasm. You make Climb checks using the whip as if it were a normal rope. Using this feat requires a Use Rope check as normal for securing a grappling hook (PH 86) but takes only a move action.

And you can use it with this: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/climb.htm)
You can use a rope to haul a character upward (or lower a character) through sheer strength. You can lift double your maximum load in this manner.

and this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/useRope.htm):
Securing a grappling hook requires a Use Rope check (DC 10, +2 for every 10 feet of distance the grappling hook is thrown, to a maximum DC of 20 at 50 feet). Failure by 4 or less indicates that the hook fails to catch and falls, allowing you to try again. Failure by 5 or more indicates that the grappling hook initially holds, but comes loose after 1d4 rounds of supporting weight. This check is made secretly, so that you don’t know whether the rope will hold your weight.

So... if you have improved grab (all you need to do is a use rope check as normal for securing a grappling hook)... and some sort of range extender... and you attack from 15' from above...you can make a use rope check to lift them up into the air an amount of height that is up to your reach, modulated by your climb check, and if you take -5 on your climb check, you can move 15 feet if your base speed is 30. These leads me to believe that you can add 1d6 fall damage on your improved grab whip climber maneuver. Usable 1/encounter.

Leaping climber skill trick will allow you to jump as a swift action with this check, and depending on your jump skill, you might be able to add 1d6- 2d6 more fall damage to this.

Speedy ascent skill trick allows you to add another 10 feet to this check and thus another 1d6 fall damage.




Thanks for all your advice, but I went with a homebrew Pyrokineticist(as a base class) and his fire lash!

[daremetoidareyo]

Thanks for all your advice, but I went with a homebrew Pyrokineticist(as a base class) and his fire lash!

All of those skill tricks should operate with the fire lash, if the text operates the same as the d20 version.

"A pyro can take Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization (if she otherwise meets the prerequisites) in conjunction with the fire lash, as well as any feats that apply to the use of a standard whip."

Further, if you are going base blass pyrokineticist, there is a lasher class in sword and fist that you can prestige into.

[Inevitability]

You made a funny comment, I laughed. Then I went through your homebrew and fell in love with the way you changed the Truenamer, so I'll also thank you!

As you may have noticed, Jormengard is the Archlord of Truenaming around here. :smalltongue: