spare the catgirls

[Wraithy]

what's your favourite "glitch" in D&D?

mine is the Hitpoints glitch, you can be 4 hit points from death and function perfectly.
this link shows what I imagine everytime this occurs, the party tank is about to die and I am in stitches. perhaps I should tell the others in my group this, might stop the funny looks :smallbiggrin:
http://llbbl.com/data/RPG-motivational/target90.html

[Inyssius Tor]

It's been said an illion times that only your last few HP actually stand for injuries. That said, it would be awfully nice if the designers even tried to keep it in mind...

[horseboy]

Sorry, I'd say something but I'm stunned and unable to parry the next three round with laughter.

[Dairun Cates]

It's been said an illion times that only your last few HP actually stand for injuries. That said, it would be awfully nice if the designers even tried to keep it in mind...

Well, I know quite a few systems that implement vitality points, shock values, stages of health, and various other things to avoid just that level of silliness. Still, now I'm going to always be thinking of that. DAMN YOU!

[....]

I always thoughts the Hit Point system worked pretty well for a game of heroes and villains where you regularly fight things that can throw balls of fire or masses of inhuman beasts...

Have you ever played a game where injuries hurt? Shadowrun and Monster: The Angst both have systems like that and, while realistic, it sucks to be losing five dice out of every roll because one thug got a lucky shot in.

[Inyssius Tor]

Whoa, attack of the identical avatars! Now all we need is Sir_Giacomo, and this'll be totally bewildering...

[Wraithy]

yup, you have to love the current system, any other favoured glitches?

[rollfrenzy]

Here's one that always bothers me.

Here I am a cleric of Pelor.

"Dear Pelor, Will you please bless mommy and daddy and uncle Tim? also please grant me, Oh I don't know, nuetralize poison, I feel like I might need it today actually nevermind I will take something else instead. praise You."

later that day....

"OMG I can't believe that Spider BIT me! getting woozy..."

"Pelor.. please cure this ...cough* poison"

Pelor "WELL WELL, SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT WHEN YOU WERE PRAYING. NO I WILL NOT GRANT YOU THAT SPELL YOU WOULD BE EASILY ABLE TO CAST OTHERWISE. NEXT REINCARANATION WE'LL PLAN AHEAD WON'T WE?"

[Citizen Joe]

I never actually used this trick but threatened to do so.

Back in 2nd edition in the Forgotten Realms campaign, one of the Goddesses granted the special power to increase the roll of any die by 1, once per day. This did not ADD to the result, it was treated as you actually rolled one higher. Now this was before 3.5 with its stacking and such (although I'm not sure if it applies or not)...

So here's the set up. Before you level up, you go to the church and donate as much gold as you can to get as many low level priests to use this ability all at once when you roll for your HP for the next level. Conceivably you could easily get 20 extra hp out of that stunt before Space Cows swoop down and kill you.

[Tormsskull]

Conceivably you could easily get 20 extra hp out of that stunt before Space Cows swoop down and kill you.

But rolling for HP is one of the rolls that is totally out of game, I don't think that priests casting that on you would do anything at all.

I mean, thats like when you're sitting around with your buddies and someone has to go pick up the pizza so you all decide to roll for it. You roll a 5, Bob rolls a 6. Bob proclaims "Ha ha!" You say "Nope. I've got an ability that grants me +2 to all die rolls. Says it right here. Looks like you're off to get that pizza Bob."

[Nebnezz]

Torm i think stuff like that happens more often than we like to think about.

[Starsinger]

Here's one that always bothers me.
Here I am a cleric of Pelor.
"Dear Pelor, Will you please bless mommy and daddy and uncle Tim? also please grant me, Oh I don't know, nuetralize poison, I feel like I might need it today actually nevermind I will take something else instead. praise You."
later that day....
"OMG I can't believe that Spider BIT me! getting woozy..."
"Pelor.. please cure this ...cough* poison"
Pelor "WELL WELL, SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT WHEN YOU WERE PRAYING. NO I WILL NOT GRANT YOU THAT SPELL YOU WOULD BE EASILY ABLE TO CAST OTHERWISE. NEXT REINCARANATION WE'LL PLAN AHEAD WON'T WE?"

Yeah, the mechanic for clerical spell prep is idiotic isn't it? Of course I think that wizard spell prep is stupid too. "Cast Knock" "I Can't!" "Why not?" "I can't remember how today.. I only thought to prepare it once.. I'll remember tomorrow." But that's just me, I prefer spontaneous magic since it doesn't have the approach "I can fix anything... tomorrow."

[Dan_Hemmens]

Ultimately, nothing beats the combat-abstraction mambo.

"An attack isn't an attack, it's an attack that stands a chance to hit. A hit isn't a hit, it's a hit that does damage. Damage isn't damage, it's a reduction in your ability to avoid injury. Your ability to avoid injury is restored by healing spells."

Clerics are great as well.

In addition to the joy of Clerical Spell Preparation there's also the fact that all Gods grant their priests identical powers, mostly based on a distinctly Judeo-Christian attitude towards "holiness."

"Hi, I'm a priest of the God of the Sun, I can heal people and drive back the undead."
"Hi, I'm a priest of the Goddess of the Moon I can heal people and drive back the undead."
"Hi, I'm a priest of the God of Spoons, I can heal people and drive back the undead."
"Hi, I'm a priest of the God of Not-Healing-People-Or-Driving-Back-The-Undead-Under-Any-Circumstances, I can heal people and drive back the undead."

[Inyssius Tor]

Not-Healing-People-Or-Driving-Back-The-Undead-Under-Any-Circumstances, I can heal people and drive back the undead."

Hey hey hey. The god of Not-Healing-People-Or-Driving-Back-The-Undead-Under-Any-Circumstances can rebuke undead. Big difference.

[Dan_Hemmens]

Hey hey hey. The god of Not-Healing-People-Or-Driving-Back-The-Undead-Under-Any-Circumstances can rebuke undead. Big difference.

Only if he's evil. Perhaps the God of Not Healing People Or Driving Back The Undead Under Any Circumstances is Chaotic Good, and believes in Not Healing People Or Driving Back The Undead Under Any Circumstances because people are ultimately better off if you let them heal themselves, and the undead have the right to walk around if they want to.

[Dervag]

Yeah, the mechanic for clerical spell prep is idiotic isn't it? Of course I think that wizard spell prep is stupid too. "Cast Knock" "I Can't!" "Why not?" "I can't remember how today.. I only thought to prepare it once.. I'll remember tomorrow." But that's just me, I prefer spontaneous magic since it doesn't have the approach "I can fix anything... tomorrow."Both cleric and wizard systems are based on the Vancian idea that spells are so hard that you have to spend time 'charging up' to cast them. That charging time is your preparation. Since each spell has a unique way of charging, you can't just swap one spell out for another at the drop of a hat.


Ultimately, nothing beats the combat-abstraction mambo.

"An attack isn't an attack, it's an attack that stands a chance to hit. A hit isn't a hit, it's a hit that does damage. Damage isn't damage, it's a reduction in your ability to avoid injury. Your ability to avoid injury is restored by healing spells."Yeah, that's pretty dumb. I'd just make each hit a really minor injury, like "the orc kicks you in the greave. It hurts a little."

It's not a perfect fix, but at least it gives the healing spells something to affect.


In addition to the joy of Clerical Spell Preparation there's also the fact that all Gods grant their priests identical powers, mostly based on a distinctly Judeo-Christian attitude towards "holiness."

"Hi, I'm a priest of the God of the Sun, I can heal people and drive back the undead."
"Hi, I'm a priest of the Goddess of the Moon I can heal people and drive back the undead."
"Hi, I'm a priest of the God of Spoons, I can heal people and drive back the undead."
"Hi, I'm a priest of the God of Not-Healing-People-Or-Driving-Back-The-Undead-Under-Any-Circumstances, I can heal people and drive back the undead."Well, if your god is actually averse to healing people and driving back the undead, you're probably getting Rebuke Undead and spontaneous inflict spells instead, right?

[SpiderBrigade]

Only if he's evil. Perhaps the God of Not Healing People Or Driving Back The Undead Under Any Circumstances is Chaotic Good, and believes in Not Healing People Or Driving Back The Undead Under Any Circumstances because people are ultimately better off if you let them heal themselves, and the undead have the right to walk around if they want to.I agree with what you're saying, Dan_Hemmens, but do bear in mind that in your typical D&D cosmology a Good-aligned god would NOT feel that undead have a right to walk around. Undead are Evil, inherently Evil. At best, your god could be neutral - in which case he would probably choose to let his clerics Rebuke rather than Turn.

Also, while the core abilities of the gods are all very similar, and you're right that this often makes no sense at all (why is the Neutral scorpion god Sss-k-thx, whose portfolio is Deserts, Scorpions, Poison, and Nature, caring at all about healing people?) each god does get a good chunk of flexibility based on the domains they offer.

Additionally, I suspect that the "central" cleric abilities have almost as much to do with filling a certain niche in terms of gameplay as they do with values/cosmology. I don't think that's necessary at all, but I think it's a very real reason that all clerics have great healing potential.

[horseboy]

Only if he's evil. Perhaps the God of Not Healing People Or Driving Back The Undead Under Any Circumstances is Chaotic Good, and believes in Not Healing People Or Driving Back The Undead Under Any Circumstances because people are ultimately better off if you let them heal themselves, and the undead have the right to walk around if they want to.

*Ahem* Weejas.

[Pronounceable]

I just LOVE the Vancian system:

-ALAKAZAM! Now you're done for!
-What have you done?
-I cast a spell on you. You are finished!
-What's gonna happen? What spell did you cast?
-Uh... I cast that spell that does... Err... What did that spell do, could remember it a moment ago. Damn my old age...
-Well?
-I just... Kinda... Well I forgot it. Sorry....

[bigbaddragon]

what's your favourite "glitch" in D&D?


1)Leveling up. You get all the benefits of your new level in an instant.

This leads to funny situations too. For example, my party finishes a session running away in an elemental cart from the followers of "Blood Of Vol" (8-10 skeletons, one cleric and some rangers). We got enough experience to level up so our Dragon Shaman gets his breath weapon and he sets our opponents to fire next session, over the course of some 30 rounds (the attackers were persistent in their pursuit). So in one or two seconds of in game time he got all the benefits of leveling up.

2)Feats. Characters (other than fighters) simply have to few of those.

3)Skills and Skill points. Classes with two skill points per level really don't have much choice and there are classes and/or prestige classes that have move silently as a class skill for example but don't have hide and vice versa (the same applies for spot/listen and search/disable device).

[Mr. Moogle]

I never actually used this trick but threatened to do so.

Back in 2nd edition in the Forgotten Realms campaign, one of the Goddesses granted the special power to increase the roll of any die by 1, once per day. This did not ADD to the result, it was treated as you actually rolled one higher. Now this was before 3.5 with its stacking and such (although I'm not sure if it applies or not)...

So here's the set up. Before you level up, you go to the church and donate as much gold as you can to get as many low level priests to use this ability all at once when you roll for your HP for the next level. Conceivably you could easily get 20 extra hp out of that stunt before Space Cows swoop down and kill you.

LOLWTFBBQ!!! I thought it was the 'Awakened-level-20-sorcerer-Terasque' not space cows.

[Nerd-o-rama]

1)Leveling up. You get all the benefits of your new level in an instant.

This leads to funny situations too. For example, my party finishes a session running away in an elemental cart from the followers of "Blood Of Vol" (8-10 skeletons, one cleric and some rangers). We got enough experience to level up so our Dragon Shaman gets his breath weapon and he sets our opponents to fire next session, over the course of some 30 rounds (the attackers were persistent in their pursuit). So in one or two seconds of in game time he got all the benefits of leveling up.
You know, the DMG recommends something rather different than this. It suggests everything from waiting until they rest next and have time to reflect to requiring days or weeks of training time. Personally, I go for the former, as it usually doesn't make sense to break for a week midadventure to train, and characters can often earn more than one level before finishing the premade modules I tend to use. D&D-based video games, on the other hand...yeah. And I agree on your other two points, which is why I usually feel shoehorned into playing a human.

[Starsinger]

Both cleric and wizard systems are based on the Vancian idea that spells are so hard that you have to spend time 'charging up' to cast them. That charging time is your preparation. Since each spell has a unique way of charging, you can't just swap one spell out for another at the drop of a hat.

I'm aware of where they come from, but thank you :smallwink:. However, Vancian spells are also amazingly better than most D&D spells. It's like applying the same cautionary methods used in handling radio-active waste to disposal of a dirty diaper. There's nothing amazingly powerful about prestidigitation that means you can't remember it five seconds after casting it. Especially since you can prepare the same spell multiple times. Wizards are really people who just have a set number of scrolls that they write out each day in an hour. Which might actually be better fluff than the current fluff for their system.

[Inyssius Tor]

Actually, that kind of is the Wizard fluff, except that the "scrolls" are in the Wizard's head. There's an example in Complete Mage; I'll go get it.

[Dhavaer]

I had the idea at one point that hit points were the ability to mess around with Conservation of Momentum. So a giant's boulder crashes down on the warblade, and he bats it away with his sword and goes about whatever he was doing. Minotaur's axe bashes down on the rogue, she parries it with her shortsword.

I like it, because it's actually possible to visualise in a way that looks awesome.

[Inyssius Tor]

Actually, that kind of is the Wizard fluff, except that the "scrolls" are in the Wizard's head. There's an example in Complete Mage; I'll go get it.

And here it is (in the spoiler below, because it's a big block of text):
"Have you ever seen a scribe readying a page to copy a piece of text? The scribe scrapes the sheet clean, then carefully traces out perfectly straight lines to contain the text and set it in order. Finally, the scribe sharpens a quill and carefully forms each letter in the text, stringing the characters together to form words, paragraphs, and finally the whole page.
"Preparing a spell is like that.
"I have my spellbooks, the original manuscript. I begin the process by resting my mind and body, erasing the detritus from the previous day. Sleep wipes my mental parchment clean. When I awake, a [yes, this should read "I"] focus for a while. I cast off the details of my dreams and set my thoughts in order, just like a scribe setting the rules and margins on a page. When I finish, I have built a mental structure for my spells. This is the essence of magic. As I have continued to hone my magical art, I find I can create more and more mental pages to contain my spells.
"When I have created as many blank pages as my mind can hold, I turn to my spellbook and copy the spells I need. I don't use pen and ink, of course, I carefully review the arcane formulae recorded in the book and fill the empty structures in my mind with magical power. There's no feeling quite like finishing preparation for a spell. Thoughts swirl like autumn leaves through my mind. By sheer force of training and will, I force those mental leaves into motes of arcane power. These motes collect on the framework like beads of dew on a spider's web. The final result is a thing of stunning and divine beauty. With every breath I take, I can feel the structure thrum with power."

[Rob Knotts]

what's your favourite "glitch" in D&D?

mine is the Hitpoints glitch, you can be 4 hit points from death and function perfectly.I have a similar problem with the idea that corporeal, humanoid creatures like Vampires, Zombies, Skeletons and Constructs are Immune to Criticals (ItoC).

My big complaint with these creature having ItoC is that it presents a conceptual problem. I realize this is supposed to represent thier relentless nature, it could be argued that loss of hitpoint not changing character conditions makes everybody relentless in D&D combat. However, since Criticals are a catch-all that supposed to include dramatic damage like decapitation, dismemberment, and being fully impaled on a weapon, it takes away a lot the mystique of certain creatures:
Vampires: Traditionally, vampires are are supposed to be vulnerable to all sorts of critical damage as opposed to being able to ignore most normal damage. When it comes to Contructs and Skeletons, ItoC means that players can't even slow them down by breaking/hacking them into pieces. Zombies could be seen as a variation on Skeletons or Constructs, but to be honest a LOT of players associated zombies with how they're presented in movies. It can be disappointing for players to realize that decapitation or other blow to the head don't have nearly the effect on zombies as movies would lead players to believe.

[Kurald Galain]

A nice glitch is that any character that gets a decent amount of skill points per level can go from "total rookie" to "awesome expert" instantly upon levelling up, even if it's in a skill he never did anything with to begin with.

Quote Haley from OOPC on how wandering around a cave killing monsters made her better at lockpicking...

[Roderick_BR]

I wouldn't say that the HP system is a glitch, the idea is that a warrior with letal wounds can still spar with monsters, without being held back. Like when you get that trait on GURPS where you are not slowed down by damage.
I'm thinking about using the wounds system in all my games.

About critical hits: In 3.0, critical hits are not only harder hits, but attacks in vital areas. So, undeads and constructs, and others things that lacks vital organs (or living vital organs) get no additional damage.
Notice that there are specific effects. A vorpal weapon cut's the target's head off. Oozes and plants have no head, and constructs and undead can function without it, except the vampire, the only undead traditionally vulnerably to it, and if he survives the hit, he doesn't get the extra damage.


Now, something funny, is with the Tome of Battle classes, that, like sorcerers and bards, can trade a move for a new one.

Warblade leveled up
Warblade is now level 8
Warblade wants to learn Disarming Strike, but he can know only 8 maneuvers
Forget a maneuver?
Which maneuver?
...Poof
Warblade forgot Steel Wind and...
Warblade learned Disarming Strike

"Dude, do that thing to set you sword in flames"
"I can't"
"Why not?"
"Uh.... I forgot how... but look, I can destroy a golen in one hit now"

[brian c]

Warblade leveled up
Warblade is now level 8
Warblade wants to learn Disarming Strike, but he can know only 8 maneuvers
Forget a maneuver?
Which maneuver?
...Poof
Warblade forgot Steel Wind and...
Warblade learned Disarming Strike

"Dude, do that thing to set you sword in flames"
"I can't"
"Why not?"
"Uh.... I forgot how... but look, I can destroy a golen in one hit now"

Ehh... you can explain that in-game by saying that he doesn't practice that move anymore, so he's not good at it. Martial adepts are supposed to spend time training and practicing, so he stops practicing that move and practices something else instead. Levelling up means that you've been doing the moves so long that you don't need as much time to practice, so you can spend time learning a new move.

[Wraithy]

I might suggest a variant rule to my DM: if your weapon can overcome something's DR, it can critical (including sneak attack etc.) wait! except for oozes, they deserve invulnerability!

[Narmoth]

Here's one that always bothers me.

Here I am a cleric of Pelor.

"Dear Pelor, Will you please bless mommy and daddy and uncle Tim? also please grant me, Oh I don't know, nuetralize poison, I feel like I might need it today actually nevermind I will take something else instead. praise You."

later that day....

"OMG I can't believe that Spider BIT me! getting woozy..."

"Pelor.. please cure this ...cough* poison"

Pelor "WELL WELL, SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT WHEN YOU WERE PRAYING. NO I WILL NOT GRANT YOU THAT SPELL YOU WOULD BE EASILY ABLE TO CAST OTHERWISE. NEXT REINCARANATION WE'LL PLAN AHEAD WON'T WE?"

I actually let priests in my game pray for divine intervention, letting them do wonders in addition to spells, meaning that they can get instant extra spells if the god decide them worthy or get special abilities.


1)Leveling up. You get all the benefits of your new level in an instant.

Are lots of rules for training and not instantly leveling up at least in 2nd ed. The problem is that they are booring and time-consuming. Therefore most (read all) don't use (d?) the rules but let you level up instantly. And don't forget. It's a game. You know, for fun. It's not a simulation of life. Some simplification is nesessary.



Vampires: Traditionally, vampires are are supposed to be vulnerable to all sorts of critical damage as opposed to being able to ignore most normal damage.

well, the point in tradition was that you couldn't kill them with ordinary weapons, but you could kill them with "magical" bullets (Like the king of Sweden Karl the 12 was rumored to be unkillable by normal bullets and was rumored to have been killed by a norwegian peasant that used a button in his gun in stead of a conventional bullet).

In D&D however, anyone who meets a vampire has magical weapons. Therefore, he is made harder to kill by the use of invulnerabillity to a lot of special damage options that would kill him more quickly.

[Mike_G]

I might suggest a variant rule to my DM: if your weapon can overcome something's DR, it can critical (including sneak attack etc.) wait! except for oozes, they deserve invulnerability!

We houseruled that crits do 1 multiplier less on corporeal undead and constructs, since you should be able to hack up zombies, and the x3 Crit weapons tend to be good for chopping stuff up. Hard to crit a Zombie with a rapier, since it isn't going to care if you pierce its heart or slice its jugular vein, but hacking off a leg or head should slow it a bit.

We also allow half of precision damage to apply, since hitting a skeleton in the spine or a joint should have more effect than just breaking a rib.

Stuff with no anatomy, like oozes, or incorporeal creatures are still immune.

But, it's totally a houserule, so yes RAW is kinda silly on that count.



Clerics are great as well.

In addition to the joy of Clerical Spell Preparation there's also the fact that all Gods grant their priests identical powers, mostly based on a distinctly Judeo-Christian attitude towards "holiness."

"Hi, I'm a priest of the God of the Sun, I can heal people and drive back the undead."
"Hi, I'm a priest of the Goddess of the Moon I can heal people and drive back the undead."
"Hi, I'm a priest of the God of Spoons, I can heal people and drive back the undead."
"Hi, I'm a priest of the God of Not-Healing-People-Or-Driving-Back-The-Undead-Under-Any-Circumstances, I can heal people and drive back the undead."


We also houseruled "custom clerics" for the Homebrew world gods, banning or adding certain spells and abilities that seemed appropriate.

So, Clerics of our War god get Martial Weapons Prof and Fighter BAB, but lose a bunch of spells and Turning. Clerics of the Death Goddess lose Raise Dead and Resurrection, but gain more necromantic spells. Clerics of the fertility Goddess lose armor, lower their BAB, but gain more healing spells, the Thief Goddess's clerics actually get Cats Grace and Foxes Cunning, etc.

Clerics that are customized to their gods seem so much more logical and don't break the suspension of disbelief, but they are a lot more work.