Question on Concentration saves

[AvatarVecna]

So, something's come up in a game I'm running, and I need some advice on how to handle it (the rules thing shouldn't come up for several hours at least, but it's been brought up and I'd rather know how I should react to it rather than make something up on the spot).

So! The situation is as follows: a PC wielding a Holy Avenger (advantage on saves vs spells/magical effects) is maintaining Haste on themselves. Two ancient dragons fly up; one uses their breath weapon on the PC, and the other attack with their natural weapons (hitting) and Frightening Presence.

1) Does the PC get advantage on the save vs Frightening Presence?

2) Does the PC get advantage on the save vs the dragon's Breath Weapon?

3) Does the PC get advantage on the various Concentration saves vs damage from the natural weapons and/or Breath Weapon?

IMPORTANT: Please mark your answers to these questions as Rules As Written (an actual rule in the book), Rules As Intended (designer intention), or Rules As Desired (you think the rule should work the way you state). If the former two cases, citations would be appreciated; in the latter case, an argument would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

[TurboGhast]

1)RAW - Nothing in this ability's description implies that it's magical.
RAD - The effect appears to be simply based on how naturally scary Adult & Ancient dragons are.
This effect could be magically enhancing natural fear, if you wanted to refluff it that way in order to explain why other creatures of similar CR don't have fear abilities. It's your choice.

2)RAW - Nothing in the attack description implies it's magical.
RAD - Breath weapons are part a Dragon's (fantastic) biology, I don't think it would manipulate the weave.

3) RAW - Nothing in the concentration section of the spell duration rules states that the save itself is magical.
RAD - The fact that getting hurt might break your concentration isn't magical, even if you're concentrating on magic.

[Zman]

1. RAW It is not a Magical effect.
2. RAW It is not a Magical effect.
3. RAW Cencentration is not a save against a magical effect, concentration is a mundane effect. Even if a damaging spell causes a concentration save, that save is not then magical.

[Mellack]

Agree with the others above. None of those qualify for advantage.

[AvatarVecna]

Alright, so my recollection of RAW is accurate. So...should it count, or is the rule balanced enough as-is?

[Mellack]

I don't think it should count. The sword doesn't help with skills, lifting heavy things, running all night, or against a giant swinging a sword. These are essential the same thing in my mind, just coming from a dragon.

[Zman]

Alright, so my recollection of RAW is accurate. So...should it count, or is the rule balanced enough as-is?

Absolutely not, it is working as intended. Trying to justify those is an awefully slippery slop. No spells wi h spell effect saves, no advantage.

[Dalebert]

First off, I agree that a dragon's fear doesn't seem magical and it doesn't say it is. It can be explained without magic and so there's no reason to assume it is. However, does an ability have to say it's magical for it to be treated as such?

Ex: A succubus charm certainly seems like a powerful magical effect. I realize it's not a spell and thus can't be counterspelled or dispelled but is it magic? If not, what is it?

[SharkForce]

i would say a dragon's fear aura is magical in nature. it has a defined range, not just "when the dragon attacks you" or "if you can see the dragon" or "if you're 2 size categories smaller than the dragon" or anything else like that. the dragon can even decide not to inflict fear on someone. how does the dragon simultaneously look naturally terrifying and not terrifying to two people standing right next to each other? imo, it doesn't, it is magically terrifying to one person but not the other.

RAW? well, there's nothing that clearly states whether the first two things count as magical. my opinion is that the fear is, the breath probably isn't (magic is to some extent involved in the sense that a black dragon doesn't need to store up enough acid in its stomach to spray over a huge area, nor does a blue dragon have a giant stun gun inside its mouth).

the concentration saves definitely aren't. but that's the only thing i can say with 100% certainty by RAW. nothing clearly states one way or the other that the other 2 effects either are or are not magical, so that's up to the DM.