Optimized Summoner/Pet Build

[Mr. WildeStone]

Been toying with an idea for a nature-themed beastmaster type character for an epic campaign. I wanted it to be a weretiger for flavor, which has a LA +3, and I figured some levels of arcane hierophant would be good for dual scaling the summoning potential. The beastmaster levels would be more important for the extra animal companions, though, and between the level adjustment and the entry levels of druid and conjurer for AH, you couldn't advance very far in either PrC and still end up with a clunky, underpowered build. I know it'd probably be best to drop one of the PrCs and just shoot in one direction, but do we think there'd be any kind of build path that could reconcile all the pieces of the character thematically while still being mechanically viable?

[Diovid]

Maybe go with Shifter instead of Weretiger, you can fluff it as being a Weretiger without having to deal with LA.

As for beastmaster.. It's really weak, especially for a druid/spellcaster. 1 level of beastmaster can be decent but anything more is a waste.

For good druid prcs you want to look at Planar Shepherd, Lion of Talisid, Moonspeaker, Abolisher and Arcane Hierophant (though for some builds Master of Many Forms is good enough). For a summoner specifically Moonspeaker is often recommended (which coincidentally requires you to be a Shifter). The bad news is that these prcs do not combine well with being a theurge, except for Arcane Hierophant of course. So you will have to choose between Arcane Hierophant and theurging on the one hand and Moonspeaker and thus playing a more pure druid on the other.

I recommend reading this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qnEHZU5uNSJrEL_X8jOA2UTla7eaFZFcFQnqWa0zrmE/edit?pref=2&pli=1#

Edit
If you do go for the Arcane Hierophant route, you might want to consider the following:

Bard with the Savage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantSavageBard) and Fey (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bard) variants (for the arcane side of things). Also the bard variant in the Eberron Campaign Setting allows you to trade away Fascinate for either Music of Making or Music of Growth, both of which are pretty good for a spellcaster.

The obtain Familiar feat (to get back the familiar you lost due to using the bard's fey variant)

So you end up with something like Druid 3 / Bard 4 / Arcane Hierophant 10 / ?

Though there are ways to optimize this further (i.e. to reduce the number of bard levels).

[sleepyphoenixx]

3 LA on a spellcaster is bad enough. You'd still (barely) get 9th level spells, but constantly being 3 levels behind in spell progression hurts a lot.
The problem with Lycantropes is that you also get the animal HD. It can be somewhat useful if you're a non-caster and pick afflicted instead of natural for +2 LA, with a 1 HD animal. A tiger has 6 HD though, so you'll be stuck with 9 lost levels of casting progression.

Arcane Hierophant would lose even more - at least one level if you're allowed early entry tricks, 3 or 4 otherwise.

Beastmaster is a massive trap. The first level may be arguable, again on a noncaster, for the +3 to your animal companion. The extra companions though already start off pitifully weak for the level you get them, and they do not scale with anything except BM levels. That's absolutely useless for anything you may want to do with animals.

You're better off investing in Wild Empathy to tame a few extra animals if your companion isn't enough. It's pretty easy to optimize and doesn't cost you levels, and the animals you'll be able to tame will be stronger than what Beastmaster grants you.
If you absolutely have to be a lycantrope i'd suggest going with an afflicted Serval (Sandstorm). It's a cat too, but only has 1 HD and some decent ability mods and qualities. Wild Shape is better though, and free.
You can get a similar effect to lycantropy by playing a non-humanoid druid and taking the Fangshields substitution levels from CoV for Wild Shape (Hands) too, without the nasty drawbacks.


For good druid prcs you want to look at Planar Shepherd, Lion of Talisid, Moonspeaker, Abolisher and Arcane Hierophant (though for some builds Master of Many Forms is good enough). For a summoner specifically Moonspeaker is often recommended (which coincidentally requires you to be a Shifter). The bad news is that these prcs do not combine well with being a theurge, except for Arcane Hierophant of course. So you will have to choose between Arcane Hierophant and theurging on the one hand and Moonspeaker and thus playing a more pure druid on the other.


Planar Shepherds make pretty good pseudo-theurges if you pick the right plane. There's a lot of outsiders (especially angels) with tons of spell-likes from the cleric and wizard lists, even if your DM rules that you don't get racial spellcasting.
But it's Planar Shepherd, so your DM is unlikely to allow it.

[SirNMN]

The obtain Familiar feat (to get back the familiar you lost due to using the bard's fey variant)

So you end up with something like Druid 3 / Bard 4 / Arcane Hierophant 10 / ?

bards don't have familiar to begin with.

[Diovid]

bards don't have familiar to begin with.
I'm not even sure how that entered my mind. :smallredface:

[eggynack]

I'll second the shifter plan. The ideal version picks up the first shifter druid substitution level (and the fourth), which ditches the animal companion, but other than that it fits more or less perfectly. Beautifully captures that intersection between lycanthropy and summoning, which seems to be your plan in a nutshell. That in mind, the best way to go might me skipping the companion angle entirely. You get to summon a whole mess of powerful monsters, and you can easily support that with fancy summoning abilities and feats, from the combination of the first sub level and the first four levels of moonspeaker. The setup leaves you a bunch of levels to screw around with, but something classic like druid 8/moonspeaker 4/druid 8 won't take you far off course. I'd definitely eschew the arcane hierophant, at least. That class'll make you actively worse at summoning, cause you'll be using lower level summoning spells. Beyond that, you might want to check out my handbook. Should cover all of the other elements of druidry, like spell selection, and what you're actually going to be summoning.