ChrisMcDee
2007-07-03, 07:16 PM
I'm currently adapting a rules-lite system called "Powergame" for a setting I'm working on. It's worth noting this is nothing like D20, so try to forget your preconceptions of the different stats if D20's your main system. In this system characters have eight stats:
Strength: Hitting and causing damage. Lifting and breaking stuff.
Toughness: Taking damage. Resisting poison.
Agility: Dodging, balancing, firing missile weapons, skill with hands.
Speed: Movement speed and reaction time.
Charisma: People Skills.
Intelligence: Learning and Deducing.
Will: Willpower, used against mind-affecting attacks and psychological effects.
Alertness: Spotting and hearing things.
This system and setting will have no hard rules for magic, but magic will not be linked to Intelligence. If anything it's more likely to use Will. Despite learning being in the description, Intelligence also has nothing to do with levelling or learning new skills. Likewise there are no combat/magic mechanics that make use of Charisma. It's purely there for social/leadership situations.
It's my intention for every stat to be useful and there to be no obvious dump stat. Currently it seems to me that Intelligence and Charisma have "dump" written all over them.
With this in mind I'm wondering if you think it's plausible for a system to run with no Intelligence or Charisma stats. Situations requiring these would instead rely on the player. The player would have to convince me (the DM), acting as an NPC, rather than simply rolling a Charisma check to bribe the guard. If the player wants to solve a puzzle he has to do it himself rather than rolling an Intelligence test. Likewise if he wants to roll to see if his character knows something about a surrounding area he will roll against his Knowledge skill in that area. These skills are handled seperately from core Attributes, mostly.
The DM should be able to use common sense in most social situations rather than relying on numbers. If the DM knows that the NPC the player's trying to barter with hates the player's race then simply play the NPC as is appropriate! Likewise for NPCs that are more likely to be friendly to the character. Just be friendly. If the character really feels the need to have something on the character sheet representing his/her charisma it can be noted down as a "Good Thing" in the appropriate section. This will be taken into account by the DM in social situations and can be much more specific than a single number. For example, an incredibly attractive female character might be limited to using her charms on male NPCs of the same race. That minotaur probably isn't going to care how pretty your eyes are. An inspirational general might be able to lead men to their death but is he really going to be able to haggle down that trader's price as well as the fast talking buyer? And what use are the buyer's market skills when he's convincing his army not to run away? There's definitely a strong case for making social skills seperate to attributes.
For more forceful uses of Charisma, such as a character attempting to magically charm another, as per your traditional Vampire, the special ability will have it's own number to use in the Abilities section of the character. This will be tested against the Will of the defender, for obvious reasons.
There are some situations where I feel an Int or Cha test is required, but I suggest that these can be rolled up with Will to create a catch all stat for mental strength and personality. Determination is a name I was toying with but for now let's leave it as Will.
A strong minded character would stand a good chance of intimidating an NPC with words, using his Will score. More blunt methods of intimidation could go down to Strength but I certainly think it can work without Charisma.
Leadership of an army could use Will too. It takes a steady nerve to order your men forward without them hearing a quiver in your voice.
I can't think of any Intelligence tests that couldn't be covered by either direct player input, use of a skill or testing against the player's Will. An example given in the Powergame rules is a professor researching ancient texts all night to find the right piece of information. This is clearly a matter of having the right knowledge and strong determination rather than an innate intelligence.
Thanks a lot for any feedback!
Oh, and if it matters, the setting itself is based on a fusion of superheroes and classical antiquity. The PCs could be similar to the likes of Hercules, Jason and Theseus but pumped up with regards to power or could be more similar to the Hulk, The Flash or Storm if they'd been born a few thousand years earlier.
Strength: Hitting and causing damage. Lifting and breaking stuff.
Toughness: Taking damage. Resisting poison.
Agility: Dodging, balancing, firing missile weapons, skill with hands.
Speed: Movement speed and reaction time.
Charisma: People Skills.
Intelligence: Learning and Deducing.
Will: Willpower, used against mind-affecting attacks and psychological effects.
Alertness: Spotting and hearing things.
This system and setting will have no hard rules for magic, but magic will not be linked to Intelligence. If anything it's more likely to use Will. Despite learning being in the description, Intelligence also has nothing to do with levelling or learning new skills. Likewise there are no combat/magic mechanics that make use of Charisma. It's purely there for social/leadership situations.
It's my intention for every stat to be useful and there to be no obvious dump stat. Currently it seems to me that Intelligence and Charisma have "dump" written all over them.
With this in mind I'm wondering if you think it's plausible for a system to run with no Intelligence or Charisma stats. Situations requiring these would instead rely on the player. The player would have to convince me (the DM), acting as an NPC, rather than simply rolling a Charisma check to bribe the guard. If the player wants to solve a puzzle he has to do it himself rather than rolling an Intelligence test. Likewise if he wants to roll to see if his character knows something about a surrounding area he will roll against his Knowledge skill in that area. These skills are handled seperately from core Attributes, mostly.
The DM should be able to use common sense in most social situations rather than relying on numbers. If the DM knows that the NPC the player's trying to barter with hates the player's race then simply play the NPC as is appropriate! Likewise for NPCs that are more likely to be friendly to the character. Just be friendly. If the character really feels the need to have something on the character sheet representing his/her charisma it can be noted down as a "Good Thing" in the appropriate section. This will be taken into account by the DM in social situations and can be much more specific than a single number. For example, an incredibly attractive female character might be limited to using her charms on male NPCs of the same race. That minotaur probably isn't going to care how pretty your eyes are. An inspirational general might be able to lead men to their death but is he really going to be able to haggle down that trader's price as well as the fast talking buyer? And what use are the buyer's market skills when he's convincing his army not to run away? There's definitely a strong case for making social skills seperate to attributes.
For more forceful uses of Charisma, such as a character attempting to magically charm another, as per your traditional Vampire, the special ability will have it's own number to use in the Abilities section of the character. This will be tested against the Will of the defender, for obvious reasons.
There are some situations where I feel an Int or Cha test is required, but I suggest that these can be rolled up with Will to create a catch all stat for mental strength and personality. Determination is a name I was toying with but for now let's leave it as Will.
A strong minded character would stand a good chance of intimidating an NPC with words, using his Will score. More blunt methods of intimidation could go down to Strength but I certainly think it can work without Charisma.
Leadership of an army could use Will too. It takes a steady nerve to order your men forward without them hearing a quiver in your voice.
I can't think of any Intelligence tests that couldn't be covered by either direct player input, use of a skill or testing against the player's Will. An example given in the Powergame rules is a professor researching ancient texts all night to find the right piece of information. This is clearly a matter of having the right knowledge and strong determination rather than an innate intelligence.
Thanks a lot for any feedback!
Oh, and if it matters, the setting itself is based on a fusion of superheroes and classical antiquity. The PCs could be similar to the likes of Hercules, Jason and Theseus but pumped up with regards to power or could be more similar to the Hulk, The Flash or Storm if they'd been born a few thousand years earlier.