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Elvenoutrider
2016-07-25, 12:40 PM
Alright so my gaming group is about to lose one player. My group members all have a number of male friends that would all be willing and able to join but this one player leaving leaves us with only one remaining female member. That player has expressed that she would appreciate us trying to add another female if possible so the game could feel like less of a boys club. We all agree that more diversity is good so Im going to give recruiting a try. I am the only experienced gamer in the group and am a straight white male. I am really looking for perspective from female gamers on the forum or people who have been in similar circumstances. My plan to recruit a female player was to simply post on craigslist explaining the situation and to maybe post flyers in the local game stores if that doesn't work. I was going to offer to meet in a public place with my players before we try a session. We are all fairly social people so this would not be a problem for us. Can anyone offer any further advice on how would be best to go about this?

ComaVision
2016-07-25, 12:44 PM
I'm also a male but I think that sounds creepy as hell. Does nobody in your group have any female friends to ask?

My girlfriend is the same way, she doesn't want to play in a group with no other girls, so she brought her friend into the group.

(her friend is an absolutely terrible player but that's another issue entirely)

Elvenoutrider
2016-07-25, 12:51 PM
We do have female friends but they either do not want to play or wont be into it. I actually do have female gamer friends who could skype in but we agreed as a group we would rather keep this game around the table. We agreed to try and recruit a local female gamer. If we cant then we will have another guy join the group. We do want to try though.

SirBellias
2016-07-25, 12:58 PM
Seconding above advice. Friends of said girl gamer are usually a good choice.

Barring that, you could just treat them like guy gamers. Because it's the same exact idea.

Or see if your friends have any friends that are interested. That's how I get half of my players.

Edit: Alright, I'm stumped then.

cobaltstarfire
2016-07-25, 01:00 PM
I agree that it may come off as creepy to put up flyers or whatever else on your own. I also agree that the lone girl in the group should have an active role in recruitment just to help alleviate the creepiness factor. Otherwise, it's not any different than recruiting guys I would imagine?


It might be easiest to check out local game stores on RPG night and join in for some games just to kind of scout players.

That's how one of my old GM's would look for players if he wanted to start a group in a new location, he'd go to local gaming locations, and join in, and if there were any players he really wanted to play with he'd invite them to play with him.

Geddy2112
2016-07-25, 01:02 PM
I don't think there is any way to put a craigslist ad or flyers up looking to recruit a female ttRPG player that won't come off with a creepy or weird vibe. You can go this route, but I highly doubt it will work.

Second the above by dragging the waters of your friend circles, or even friends of friends. Talk up the game to every female you know, it is pretty easy to get them to bite.

I suggest doing a lot of legwork-canvas your local game and hobby stores, look for people playing(like groups) or buying stuff, or those who hang out at said places. Strike up a conversation and ask them if they wanna play. I once got incredibly lucky and got a player because she sat at the table next to me at starbucks and just pulls out the 5e monster manual and starts reading.

You could also join another group that has a female player and try to recruit them to your table.

JellyPooga
2016-07-25, 01:13 PM
Rather than actively recruiting a random, I'd advise hanging around your local game store or club; make some more friends in the gaming community (both male and female) and ask around your new friends to see if they know anyone interested.

It's very different meeting someone that is a friend of a friend, or someone you've played a game along with mutual friends, to meeting a complete random. There's the issue of the trust and safety of both parties to overcome and getting involved in some community participation games is a good way to gauge this kind of thing; it's public, it's generally supervised in some way (if not by a dedicated supervisor, then at least by other gamers in the store/club) and there's a time limit (end of the game/session/evening) in case it all starts going pear-shaped.

Inviting one person to a social session to meet and greet sounds ok on paper, but look at it from the recruits point of view. "Come meet my gang at our local hangout so we can see if we like you" sounds a bit like an invitation to a cult or a mugging or something. Compared to (having just finished a participation game at the game store) "Hey, that game was fun. Would you like to meet up for another game here sometime?"...[sometime later]..."Hi, glad you could make it! These are my friends; Kate, Jake and Tommy. Do you mind if they sit in?".

Mr Beer
2016-07-25, 08:14 PM
Craigslist ad:

"Straight white male Dungeon Master wants to increase diversity of roleplaying group. There are now too many men as we only have one human female left. We are friendly and broadminded, this is definitely not sexual. No pressure, but the newbies usually bring pizza...not sausage though because it's already a sausage fest!!! LOL j/k. Repeat, this is not sexual at all."

Mr Beer
2016-07-25, 08:18 PM
Also, if a player particularly wants to filter for diversity, I'd probably let her do the recruiting. If I'm recruiting, it will be for people who I think fit the group, my experience is that it's hard to find female gamers, even with totally not-sexual Craiglist adverts.

Sajiri
2016-07-25, 08:29 PM
Whatever you do, make sure it doesnt come across as 'we're a group of guys who just want more girls in our group', and that you have a female player already who just wants more female friends there. I think it sounds a bit creepy at first but then reading the explanation of why you're looking from more females it's far more understandable, and if I were someone looking for a group I wouldnt be bothered at all.

But more important than that, maybe Im kind of biased since I get along better with men despite being a woman anyway, is there a reason this current female player feels uncomfortable with it being a 'boys club'? I don't know the situation and if the only time your group meets up is for gaming and you aren't necessarily friends outside of it I could understand, but maybe the behaviour of the group makes her feel left out?

BayardSPSR
2016-07-25, 11:30 PM
The trick to it, as people have pointed out, is in already having female friends. If none of your female friends are interested, and none of her female friends are interested, and none of the female friends of anyone else in the group are interested... And you've actively tried to recruit those people...

Maybe do a session or two at your local gaming store and see if anyone asks to drop in? I'd stay away from Craigslist; there's more than one way of reading "dungeon master."

Christopher K.
2016-07-26, 03:51 AM
I'd honestly suggest not bothering to fill a diversity quota. If you're short a player, find someone who meshes well with the group rather than someone who fills one particular check box.

That said, if you're going to honor a former player's wishes, have *her* do the legwork to find a new player that meets the somewhat arbitrary suggestion.

Elvenoutrider
2016-07-26, 08:37 AM
So to answer the questions or respond to some points - the female player that would like a new female player is my SO, and she is completely new to the hobby with only a few sessions under her belt. She enjoys it so far but she doesn't really know enough to recruit. She also works a lot of hours and needs to use public transit to get everywhere (not a huge problem because we live in a city but it does add to the time investment). She is willing to come with me and help me whenever I figure out a plan. We have already asked and ruled out our female friends for various reasons. I do not have much experience with the local gaming scene because previous to getting several of my friends into the hobby, I chose to stick with skype gaming. The local gamer's behavior turned me off initially and I never really tried to get back into it - took the path of least resistance and played with people I already meshed with. We are all very busy between our jobs and other commitments and I cant see myself spending extra time joining into another game while I am already doing the work to write and gm.

All of us are good friends who regularly hang out outside of game. Pathfinder was just something I pitched while we were doing a Game of Thrones viewing party and now they love the hobby.

Running our sessions at a local shop does sound like a good way to get some visibility, though i do enjoy being able to drink and pace and shout while I Gm. It seems like there is no short term solution to this which is understandable given how some groups treat female players and characters.

Again, recruiting another female player was simply a request. No one is threatening to leave over this or anything. If we cant find a female player we will just recruit one of the many male gamers who meshes with us.

I have to pick up some pathfinder books, minis, and board games anyways. My plan at this point is to ask around the local store owners when I go, buy some things to support the small businesses, and see if they can give me any bonuses to my gather information and knowledge: local rolls (haha I made a pathfinder joke... Validate me). ON top of that, my group will post something on craigslist, explain the situation, describe the group makeup (feels weird to do but it may help), throw a few jokes in there to humanize us and relieve tension and see how that goes. It probably wont do much but I see no reason not to.

Still open to any advice or new perspectives anyone can give, especially if anything Ive said would put me into the "part of the problem" catagory. I try to run an inclusive game and group but Its easy to miss things without the perspective.

Red Fel
2016-07-26, 09:15 AM
Yeah, as others have said, for a guy to be out there recruiting women for the table, it's pretty high on the creep-factor. For a guy and his SO, in some ways it's less creepy, in some ways it's more creepy. For her to do it herself, it's noticeably less creepy.

My thought is this. You started as a group of friends, hanging out and watching GoT. Just find another existing friend to join your group. Pitch it as a social exercise that happens to be a game night, rather than a game night that happens to have social components - people tend to be more open to that. And look back over the people you've written off. If you wrote them off for specific reasons (e.g. "I hate her nasal laugh,") that's one thing, but if you just assumed they'd say no, have a second thought.

But yeah. I think choosing from an existing pool of friends is substantially less creepy, and more likely to be successful, than trying to recruit strangers.

Pugwampy
2016-07-26, 10:07 AM
Problem with girls playing DND . They have a more down to earth grounded "real life" then average dnd male nerds . Although I like having girl players at the table i have yet to find one who is dead loyal to the game . This is a boys club because boys seem to understand the "BS" tossed at them by king of BS aka the mighty DM .

As i see it if your girl player wants more girls , she should invite one of her gal pals . This is not your problem dude .

Phoenixguard09
2016-07-26, 12:07 PM
Problem with girls playing DND . They have a more down to earth grounded "real life" then average dnd male nerds . Although I like having girl players at the table i have yet to find one who is dead loyal to the game . This is a boys club because boys seem to understand the "BS" tossed at them by king of BS aka the mighty DM .

As i see it if your girl player wants more girls , she should invite one of her gal pals . This is not your problem dude .

What the actual ****?

I cannot believe that I am reading this. Your entire post is just about antithetical to all I try to do when running my games.

For starters, how many gaming horror stories begin with a new player being invited by an existing player?

No, I can't be bothered responding to this point by point. How you typed this and didn't think it was stereotyping and poor advice is beyond me.

To the OP, as most in this thread have suggested, your best bet is to try and recruit gamers, who if they happen to be female, there's a bonus. If you and your existing players have no female friends who might be interested then you should probably go without another female player.

My point is, choosing a player based on sex is not really a great idea.

Red Fel
2016-07-26, 12:35 PM
What the actual ****?

Trust me. Don't feed it. Not even once.

Airk
2016-07-26, 12:39 PM
Problem with girls playing DND . They have a more down to earth grounded "real life" then average dnd male nerds . Although I like having girl players at the table i have yet to find one who is dead loyal to the game . This is a boys club because boys seem to understand the "BS" tossed at them by king of BS aka the mighty DM .

As i see it if your girl player wants more girls , she should invite one of her gal pals . This is not your problem dude .

Dude; This is NOT OKAY.

Also, wrong. Dude.

Red Fel
2016-07-26, 01:24 PM
Dude; This is NOT OKAY.

Also, wrong. Dude.
Ahem. I think this line's mostly filler.

Trust me. Don't feed it. Not even once.

BayardSPSR
2016-07-26, 03:10 PM
Problem with X playing DND . They have a more down to earth grounded "real life" then average dnd Y nerds . Although I like having X players at the table i have yet to find one who is dead loyal to the game . This is a Y club because Y seem to understand the "BS" tossed at them by Y of BS aka the mighty DM .

As i see it if your X player wants more X , she should invite one of her X pals . This is not your problem Y.

Even if you strip out the gendered stuff and then ignore the blatant prejudice and discrimination, I still object to the insistence that players must be "dead loyal," or than DMs toss BS at them or are necessarily mighty.

Remedy
2016-07-26, 04:32 PM
Even if you strip out the gendered stuff and then ignore the blatant prejudice and discrimination, I still object to the insistence that players must be "dead loyal," or than DMs toss BS at them or are necessarily mighty.


Trust me. Don't feed it. Not even once.

It's rare to see Red Fel's advice go so thoroughly ignored around these parts.

Anyway, I'm gonna throw my full support behind the option mentioned before of meeting them at a public game night and actually experiencing a session or two around them before you try inviting them to your group. That pretty well resembles how I would go about recruiting anyway, and if you two get along then you won't even need to bring up the "oh yeah I need more female players in my group to appease my SO" it can just be the normal "you're fun to game and hang out with and my group is down a player, any interest in checking it out?"

Pugwampy
2016-07-26, 07:50 PM
Wow interesting.... you all go fight for gender equality . I just wanna play friggin DND game dang it .

I put alot of hard work into my sessions and I certainly dont appreciate it when X interrupts me halfway because she has something better to do and runs off . I have been herr director for a dozen or so X,s during my BS career and not one has satisfied me fully.
Is it so unfair of herr director to beg for a little bit of commitment from X whom i am doing my very best to give 100 entertainment and pleasure at the table ?

Please excuse me if i am a fan of Y due to his appreciation , reliable output and major contributor of that awesome buzz after a 6 - 8 hour trip to la la land .

cobaltstarfire
2016-07-26, 07:55 PM
So a girl pee'd in your oatmeal one day, and now all girls are suspected oatmeal pee inners.

Cool story I guess.

YossarianLives
2016-07-26, 08:07 PM
Trust me. Don't feed it. Not even once.
Red Fel is a wise and malevolent benevolent ruler. Let his advice be heeded.

sktarq
2016-07-26, 08:13 PM
Honestly it is a touchy problem.

I'd really recommend taking a look at your female friends and not just saying "they wouldn't be interested" ask them. And yeaah you may have to sell it a bit as many girls have been scared off by stories of bad behavior and not being advertised to. . . Have the one girl be part of it.

Other places where I've had luck. Math labs in universities, gamer socials, community theatre, and coffee shops.

Jay R
2016-07-26, 08:19 PM
The best answer is a friend. That's been taken off the table.

All right. Then the second best answer is a friend of a friend.

The female player who wants another female gamer should ask her close friends if they know somebody who plays or would like to play. I have far more faith in a friends network than an advertisement.

Vitruviansquid
2016-07-26, 09:00 PM
You know, at first, I was also going to suggest that it's more important to take a friend you know than some random who answers your Craigslist ad. But now that I think about it, someone who looks for an RPG group on Craigslist would probably be much more into the game than someone's female friend who didn't make the first cut when you were getting the group together to begin with.

KillingAScarab
2016-07-26, 09:18 PM
Elvenoutrider, if your group grew out of a mutual like of Game of Thrones, and your game has a tone similar in some ways to the show, as this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?483291-recruiting-for-weeknight-skype-game) recruitment thread might indicate, have you considered trying to find other people who are interested in Game of Thrones who might then be interested in trying Pathfinder?

1337 b4k4
2016-07-26, 09:51 PM
I'm going to go counter to the general consensus here. Forget the "creepy" factor. You have a group, you have a need, and you have a request. So be honest and up front about it. An ad on your FLGS board saying something like:

"Local gaming group of <number> players seeks new player for current <game/edition> campaign. Group meets regularly on <days>, and preference is for experienced female player. Interested players should contact <contact> to set up time for trial session at <FLGS>. "

Frankly speaking, there's nothing "creepy" about a group having a preference for certain types of players. The only thing that makes this "creepy" is the fact that you're a male and you're looking for a female player, but if you swapped the genders in this tale, no one would consider it creepy in the slightest.

That being said, it's worth bearing individual comfort and safety preferences in mind. You'll definitely want to set up your trial sessions at the FLGS or other public venue. Even if you decide on keeping the player around, you'll probably want to run a few sessions there until they're comfortable enough with the group to go to someone else's home. I would also make sure all of your players can make all of the trial sessions. New players should get the chance to know everyone, and not be surprised by people they didn't expect, and it will also reduce any "creepy" factor that may remain to have your SO there to answer any questions about why you're preferring to add a female gamer to the group.

Not sure I'd use craigslist to recruit but it's always a possibility. Might also have some luck trying to recruit on something line penandpapergames.com or meetup.com

IShouldntBehere
2016-07-26, 10:04 PM
Do you know Chris Hemsworth and/or Tom Brady?

Mr Beer
2016-07-26, 10:52 PM
So a girl pee'd in your oatmeal one day, and now all girls are suspected oatmeal pee inners.

Cool story I guess.

I'm willing to bet that somewhere there is a Craiglist ad asking for someone fitting this description.

2D8HP
2016-07-27, 12:55 AM
So a girl pee'd in your oatmeal one day, and now all girls are suspected oatmeal pee inners.So that's the cause of cooties! Who knew? This explains so much! I should have heeded the warnings I heard in Kindergarten! :wink:

(Back to seriousness)

To the OP, if your SO is working all those hours, what this seems like is thar she misses her female friend, and is maybe just a little tired of "the guys" (some of us guys, such as myself are pretty annoying). It's nice that your looking out for her, but instead of finding her a buddy maybe there's ways you can free up some time for her? Errands, rides etc.

Acanous
2016-07-27, 04:02 AM
I'm actually in agreement that this isn't your problem. Not for the same reasons, you still have a problem, just "how to recruit women" isn't it.
Its cool you want to create a friendly and open environment for your players, but if the *only* female at the table is your SO? It's going to be hella off-putting to potential candidates. When your SO is new? That's worse.

So here's what I propose. Recruit someone experienced with the game who gets along well with your group. If that person is female, great! If not, you have a cohesive group that can have fun and teach your SO by inclusion, without hand holding.

Once she's more comfortable with the system and has some good stories about the game, *she will recruit a female friend on her own.*
Because they will have heard about the good times and want to check it out.

It sucks that you lost your other female member, but if you show her that it doesn't matter whats between the legs, only whats on paper you'll be building a better game culture.

Madbox
2016-07-27, 05:05 AM
Here's an idea for a non-creepy ad, although it will require a bit of work on your part.

Post something along the lines of "Local gaming group looking for new member. We are losing one member, and are looking for someone who fits our group dynamic to join up. We are a group of X guys and 1 girl, and are into GoT, etc etc. Send an email to [email protected] with your name, general interests, and favored play style (hack n slash, political intrigue, megadungeons, etc), and we'll let you know what we think!"

You don't need to specify that your "dynamic" is another girl, and can just tell any dudes that they aren't quite what you were looking for. Downside is that you'll have to go through any number of applicants.

Phoenixguard09
2016-07-27, 09:16 AM
I'm actually in agreement that this isn't your problem. Not for the same reasons, you still have a problem, just "how to recruit women" isn't it.
Its cool you want to create a friendly and open environment for your players, but if the *only* female at the table is your SO? It's going to be hella off-putting to potential candidates. When your SO is new? That's worse.

So here's what I propose. Recruit someone experienced with the game who gets along well with your group. If that person is female, great! If not, you have a cohesive group that can have fun and teach your SO by inclusion, without hand holding.

Once she's more comfortable with the system and has some good stories about the game, *she will recruit a female friend on her own.*
Because they will have heard about the good times and want to check it out.

It sucks that you lost your other female member, but if you show her that it doesn't matter whats between the legs, only whats on paper you'll be building a better game culture.

This. What I was trying to get at, but I got sidetracked in a drunken rant. Good stuff Acanous.

Elvenoutrider
2016-07-27, 11:02 AM
I wanted to thank every... well most of you for your contributions. Its not exactly an easy topic and its one with a wide range of opinions that can escalate to difficult disagreements. Diversity in the hobby is not an easy topic to discuss and I appreciate those that put themselves out there. Another one of my players gave me a courtesy notice that he would be leaving in the next few weeks because he just got a new part time research job he wants to devote time to. he said if he finds a way to work it into his schedule after he gets used to the new work load he wants to rejoin but no promises. Because of this I asked another friend - huge history and fantasy/ sci fi buff to play and he actually says he may know a girl who would join.

Failing that, we have some time so we are going to try to run a session or two at the local game stores and my female player is either going to write or edit a post on gaming forums and craigslist to recruit. We agreed we wanted someone who would get along with us first, into the hobby second, and female third. If no female presents themselves, we grab another player. If we find an available female player at a later date, I am capable of running a 6 player party given that I have designed most of my encounters to involve both a boss enemy and some mooks - its easy enough to add more mooks or a lieutenant to all of my encounters to balance out the cr

Frustratingly enough the other player leaving hurts our diversity in other ways but I'm just taking what I'm going to get at this point rather than open up a whole new can of worms.

Still open to more advice and discussion if anyone wants to throw anything else in.

othaero
2016-07-27, 02:13 PM
If you make flyers try to include a photo of your group. That way it seems less creepy. You will probably need every advantage

ComaVision
2016-07-27, 02:38 PM
If you make flyers try to include a photo of your group. That way it seems less creepy. You will probably need every advantage

Or more creepy, depends on your group.

Honest Tiefling
2016-07-29, 03:05 PM
I'm late to the party, but I'll chime in. Firstly, if I was a minority, I sure as heck would not appreciate being recruited only for my minority status, not my actual gameplay style. Also, super creepy dude.

I think the real issue is not increasing diversity. I think it is why your SO is uncomfortable around a table of only men. Are they cracking dirty jokes? Scratching their balls? Talking about the merits of peeing standing up? What are they doing that is so 'boy's club' and not 'inclusive social activity'. Because face it, you've got a pool of less then what, 20 people most likely? You're not getting diversity with that sort of numbers. So I say, address the real issue, instead of potentially getting yourself kicked out of the gamestore. Why is your SO uncomfortable, and how do you broach it?

I am going to second this, it is far better to have a table full of dudes that get along then an inclusive diverse group that have completely different desires. If you pass over completely good players because they have a meat and veg between their legs, you are doing your table a disservice. Especially if you have to settle for someone who is not a great fit for your table because they happen to be female.

DRD1812
2016-07-29, 03:21 PM
I've actually got a resource for you: nearbygamers.com

Create an account, enter your location, and find nearby gamers. In keeping with the spirit of this thread, it's usually a bit like dating. "Hey, your profile seems interesting. Want to get a coffee and see if we're into the same kinds of plastic polyhedrons?"

Good luck, and happy gaming.