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View Full Version : DM Help How does a warlocks known spells work



imacie
2016-07-25, 09:39 PM
I am a first time DM and a player just corrected my interpretation of the rule book. I understand the change with how slots works and lvl casting, however my question is how the spells known works I am seeking clarification on the rules and i will outline the basic contention here:
At the moment the player is a lvl 3 warlock and should know 4 spells right? but what is the lvl composition of these 4 spells
The way i see it they have started off at lvl 1 with 2 known spells from the level 1 warlock spell list, yes fine so they can choose from two different lvl 1 spells.
At level 2 they gain another spell known, so they have a choice of three spells which can be the same ones from level 1 or all new ones (from the warlock spell list~ all of lvl one)

the question arises at lvl three when they gain access to lvl 2 spells, so can they pick up to two separate lvl 2 spells and two other lvl 1 spells (to take a total of 4 spells known) at this point from the warlock list
OR
as i understand it they gain three lvl 1 spells of their choice and ONE (and only one) lvl 2 spell of their choice because as the spells known increased by one they get one new choice as the spell slot increased to lvl 2 power they can choose one lvl 2 spell.

this is the question and i've looked online for a few hours and nothing has managed to answer this.

Thanks

Im

TheCountAlucard
2016-07-26, 12:07 AM
What game? Which edition?

Millstone85
2016-07-26, 12:20 AM
Fifth edition D&D, is it?


At level 2 they gain another spell known, so they have a choice of three spells which can be the same ones from level 1 or all new ones (from the warlock spell list~ all of lvl one)I believe this is wrong. The warlock learns one new spell and gets to replace one other spell known. Thus, they necessarily keep at least one spell they knew before. For example, a warlock who knew hex and illusory script could now know hex, protection from evil and good and unseen servant.

Then, at the class' 3rd level, the warlock again learns one new spell and gets to replace one other spell known. But this time the new spells, including the replacement, can be of 1st or 2nd level. Thus, they could now know four 1st level spells, or three 1st level spells and one 2nd level spell, or two 1st level spells and two 2nd level spells, but they could not know three 2nd level spells.

imacie
2016-07-26, 02:44 AM
yeah sorry d&d 5e, i was going to add it but i pressed post too quickly

imacie
2016-07-26, 02:47 AM
Milestone85 i think yes you have answered my question but now another question arises. Sure if at lvl 3 they learn a new spell they can choose from 1st or second lvl spells however because they only get to swap out one spell for another how do they learn 2 lvl 2 spells. Is this because swapping a first for a second and learning a new second level spell? but they don't have access to more than one second level spell by the time they get 3rd level Warlock so this doesn't make sense to me otherwise why do Warlocks even have a limited number of known spells? they can just choose any spell they want every time they level up? doesn't it have to be they get to choose which spells they can memorise from a spell list of known spells?
Im

Millstone85
2016-07-26, 07:58 AM
how do they learn 2 lvl 2 spells. Is this because swapping a first for a second and learning a new second level spell?Yes, that is the count I made.


they don't have access to more than one second level spell by the time they get 3rd level WarlockI have no idea where you are getting that notion from.


why do Warlocks even have a limited number of known spells?You decide. Maybe their patron can only imbue them with so much power without breaking them. Maybe they need to bargain more. Maybe only their patron truly understands the rules of pact magic.


they can just choose any spell they want every time they level up?From the warlock spell list, yes. And don't forget that list has been expanded by your choice of a patron.


doesn't it have to be they get to choose which spells they can memorise from a spell list of known spells?That's what wizards do. After a long rest, they memorise a portion of their spellbook. But warlocks are not wizards.

imacie
2016-07-27, 06:01 AM
I really appreciate your taking the time to help me thanks. It's rather hard for me to try explain myself here but my real question i think is not quite answered. The way i see it is this. You choose which spells from the warlock list you can access , yes you can take one and change it for another at each level up, but this is the only point where you get to change them. So once you decide on the spell your stuck with it for the level. So you cant change what spell you know at any time only at each level and only one spell. Now you also "learn a new spell each time your spells known number goes up, which is equivalent of the slot level you can cast at. So we get to level three and suddenly they can learn a new spell of level two, so they make a choice and learn a new spell (fine all good) that is their new lvl 2 spell, now they also want to swap out one spell for another and they take a lvl 1 spell and swap it for a lvl 2 spell. My problem is that the way the rules work it seems access to higher lvl spells is controlled by the spells known/spell slot feature of spell casting. Yes i know warlock are not like any other caster except i just wonder if taking two 2nd level spells at level 3 is going against the intended way the rules function. See they already used up learning a new spell at a new level function by taking the first second lvl spell so they are in effect double dipping at gaining more powerful spells. So if you see it through you get something like this
4th level : gain a 2nd lvl spell, change another 1st lvl spell to 2nd lvl = 4x lvl 2 spells, 1x lvl 1 spells
5th level : gain a 3rd lvl spell. change another 1st lvl spell to 3rd lvl = 2x lvl 3 spells, 4x lvl 2 spells, 0x lvl 1 spell
6th level : gain a 3rd lvl spell, change another 2nd lvl spell for 3rd lvl = 4x lvl 3 spells, 3 x lvl 2 spells, 0x lvl 1 spell
7th level : gain a 4th lvl spell, change another 2nd lvl spell for 4th lvl = 2x 4th lvl spell, 4x lvl 3 spell, 2x lvl 2 spell, 0x lvl 1 spell

etc etc

it seems to me the warlock has access to many high lvl spells faster than should be allowed but if this is how people play the rules then i'm fine with that.

Joe the Rat
2016-07-27, 08:03 AM
That is exactly how it works for all "Spells Known" casters. Of note Sorcerers, who have the same number and rate of known spells, or Bards, who have two additional known at this point (More for Lore). It would be a poor choice for a Bard, but a Sorcerer could convert the unusable 1st level slots into sorcery points. But that's nothing compared to Preparation casters, who can put most of their larger spells prepared count (level plus casting stat modifier) into high level spells, knowing they won't be able to use more than a handful and spamming their 1 or 2 low level picks. Hell, a 7th level Cleric or Land Druid can take all 10 or 11 of their prepared picks as 4th level spells since they prepare from the full list, and simply use their domain spells for 1-3. They'd only get to cast one 4th level spell, but boy do they have options.

What the warlock gets is more castings of higher level spell slots (up to 5th level slots), because they always cast at max level. You'll be casting fewer spells per day at 7th (6-8 assuming 2-3 short rests, not counting Invocations), compared to the 11 overall for full casters. Actually, it's more for Wizards and Land Druids (one short rest spell slot recovery per day - so up to 3 more 1st slots, or as little as a single extra 3rd) and maybe Sorcerers (converting sorcery points into spell slots).