Something has gone horribly wrong while statting an epic level monster

[Albions_Angel]

Hi all

Um... I am doing something wrong. My epic level monster is looking like something a party of level 10s could take down with ease.

I have never done anything like this before, and I asked a lot of questions yesterday, so I turned to reddit and I am now doubting their advice.

At the moment, I am just trying to get a handle on its stats. Including what items it has. Reddit suggested I build a level 30 char, and use the 4,300,000 gp guideline in the DMG to buy items. Now, granted the charactar is going to mostly be a caster, but she is weak as all hell.

The initial 32 pt buy gives me

10
14
12
14
14
15

Mad I know, but what can you do. Then by level 30, thats 7 stat improvements. So...

10
14
12
16
16
18

which I round off with 4 +8 items and a +6 item (ok, can we just hold for a moment and notice that the +6 to +8 difference is 6 HUNDRED THOUSAND GP?!), which gives a final of

10
22
18
24
24
26

and a final HP of 225 (30d6 + 30*4)

Thats the stats of a dragon 10 LEVELS LOWER! A dragon that already casts as a level 20 sorc. A dragon that isnt built with a 32 pt buy, but a much lower buy. Sure, I still have nearly half my cash left, but I havnt given her a weapon or armour bonus, magic items, anything.

What is effectively a level 30 character does not seem like a CR 30 encounter. Not in the slightest. At least, stats wise. Sure, if I make her a sorc or Wiz she will literally destroy worlds, but a level 12 with the right buffs can level her in ONE ROUND.

It just doesnt seem right. I am doing something wrong.

Please help

[D.M.Hentchel]

Don't forget tomes to buff all the stats by 5.

Epic encounters get explosive fast. Consider contingent Revivifies and Heal to up the durability.

[Seppo87]

Dude, casters HAVE low stats, that's old news.

Have the guy be properly buffed and use spells, spells are the real sorce of power for this type of enemy

[Albions_Angel]

I mean, I dont intend anyone to actually fight her. Shes one of 3 semi deific fey lords that are plot pieces at best. I know, I know, why bother statting them. Well I like stats.

Scrolling through Deities and Demigods right now, looking at their stats. Now I am beginning to look at Obad-Hai for my fey lords, and looking at something more powerful for my actual gods. Just for the stats mind you.

[Seppo87]

Make gods gestalt? Crusader on the other side, so it gets tough?

[Albions_Angel]

Might well do that. A gestalt martial half even fits in with their past lore for the gods. That would certainly set them apart from the Fey Lords. Thanks.

[ExLibrisMortis]

High ability scores come from buff spells. Let's take your 30th-level caster, and add some, from the Team Solar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?188138-Team-Solars-(Archiving)) list. I'll assume a build like sorcerer 10/swiftblade 9/spelldancer 1/incantatrix 10, for simplicity (Spelldancer is great thematically, as well, the other two are raw power). Some servants should help you buff, by providing a few druid and cleric spells, which you can then Persist with your incantatrix abilities.

Note that you'll be using the physical ability scores of the solar, so they don't matter in your point buy. With that in mind, let's 32-point buy as follows:


8/8/12/14/14/18

...then add 7 increases, to get:


8/8/12/14/14/25

and +4 tomes to even stats, and +5 tomes to odd stats (inherent bonus, 27500 gp per bonus, total 687 500 gp) to each stat, to get:


12/12/16/18/18/30

I'm not 100% what the concensus is on inherent bonuses in other forms, but I'll assume they remain in force. So we take the solar angel base stats*, with a persistent shapechange (persistent spell #1).


32/24/24/18/18/30

Now, we're adding the following buffs: bite of the werebear (+16 enh str, +8 enh con), divine agility (+10 enh dex), diadem of rulership (combined item, +6 enh int/wis/cha), greater visage of the deity (+4/+2/+4/+2/+4/+4 untyped, need to trick it onto your spell list by selecting a domain), inner beauty (+4 sacred dex/cha), and finally owl's insight (+10 insight wis @ CL 20, could be more, but it's a druid spell, so a servant has to provide it)(persistent spells #2-6). Resulting stats:


52/40/36/26/38/44

That's not too shabby, until you realize that the dragon can do this, too. If that becomes a problem, just take the shape of the dragon (you have shapechange up, after all), and be done with it. You're taking 6 rounds of spelldancing for each spell you cast yourself, and a full round for the ones your servants cast (most of them, actually), for a buff routine of about two minutes, tops.

The diadem is there because magic items provide easy enhancement bonuses to mental stats, and because every fairy queen needs an epic artifact for a crown. I'd suggest adding the powers of an admiral's bicorne and cowl of warding, for starters, which would take the value up to some 300.000 gp.

Obviously, really thorough optimization can take your stats up a bit further.



*In this case, since you are desiging an NPC, you can even use it as template for the true form of this fey lady, which would grant you the mental ability scores, as well (23/25/25). Solars have 22 hit dice and 20th-level cleric casting, so they are a good start for outsider leaders in all cases. Continue with swiftblade 9/spelldancer 1

[Bronk]

I think the root of the problem is that you're starting out with this point buy.

You could do better by taking an existing monster, applying the elite array to it, maybe throwing on a few templates, and then add class levels.

Or, considering you're not intending this monster to be a threat to the party, there's no real need to balance it at all. It might be easier for you to take a leShay (a preexisting epic fey) as a base and use the gestalt rules on that. Any powers it has that don't fit your theme, just don't use, and add in the nymph abilities you were looking at earlier.

Another idea would be to check out the Book of Exalted Deeds and compare Queen Morwel to a regular tulani eladrin. (Also, she's got 39HD but is only CR31.)

[Albions_Angel]

The leShay might just be what I was looking for. In and of itself, its classless, provides good values to work from, etc. Exactly what I was after. Thanks.