How to roleplay high INT, low WIS

[Barstro]

I'm having trouble figuring out how my character acts and gives advice. INT is 20 and will go higher, while WIS is 7 and will most likely stay there. CHA is nothing to write home about, but I at least have a handle on that.

My understanding of the contrast between INT and WIS is that INT is the knowledge of facts, while WIS is more the application (even if facts are not known).
Favorite examples.
1)High INT can go outside and talk for hours about how evaporation and atmospheric temperatures create rain.
High WIS might wonder how rain is able to get through all those clouds, but will still seek shelter when it rains.

2)High INT knows that a tomato has seeds and is therefore a fruit
High WIS might not understand the biological definitions of organic matter, will still not put a tomato in a fruit salad.

But how could/should a PC play it out?
My current situation is that, as the party crafter, my PC wants to make a +2STR belt for our melee fighter. This has not been requested, so he would be doing it at his own whim.
With high INT, my character knows that; STR helps attacks and damages in melee, only two party members seem to fight melee, the other melee fighter doesn't enter melee as often.

I realize that even a 7 WIS would probably be able to piece all that together and just tell the other PC "I made this belt because you having higher STR will help you protect the party more", but the situation will continue to occur and I want to roleplay correctly for more gray areas.

Thanks for any insight.

[BowStreetRunner]

While it is not a perfect parallel, you might want to watch a couple episodes of Scorpion. The high IQ characters on that show do a lot of foolish things that lack common sense.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Doc Brown from Back to the Future is another good example.

[Seppo87]

INT is the ability to connect pieces of information in new ways, giving the intelligent character a knack at finding solution to complex problems, dealing with the abstract, making hypotesis and seeing things from various perspectives.

WIS is the ability to notice things that are actually happening, paying attention, discern what's good and bad, also includes non-logical intuition and self-control.

This is a riddle that will be difficult for your character:
"Johnny’s mother had three children. The first child was named April. The second child was named May. What was the third child’s name?"

If he had at least Wis10 it would be easy to observe that Johnny's mother has a son named Johnny.
However he'll be probably too distracted by the apparently logical sequence of months.



You character is probably very good at math, but he won't notice that you just cut your hair.

When making decisions, he'll have trouble. A lot of ideas come to his mind, but he lacks the ability to discern which is better, because so many variables are involved and he cannot properly weight them unless he has hard data (statistics etc)
This is why he's so motivated about collecting data and knowledge in general.


I realize that even a 7 WIS would probably be able to piece all that together and just tell the other PC "I made this belt because you having higher STR will help you protect the party more",
Sure he's able to do that, it's a great idea and compatible with average or more INT.
However, maybe you decorated the belt in such a way that the character on the recieving end will hate to wear it. You should have picked that up, but he never explicitly said "I hate pink" and even if he did you were probably reading some book and didn't listen.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Sense Motive keys off wisdom; low-wis characters are typically not so 'in tune' with what other people want from them, what other people feel, and whether they're acting appropriately. Now, 7 wisdom is a -2 penalty, so it's not exactly a big gap, but noticable. Just be a bit slow on the uptake when dealing with emotions, and don't be too tactful. You can explain the will save penalty as 'not understanding what the effect [that you're saving against] is trying to get you to do'.

Of course, given your high int, you may at some point have it pointed out to you that this is a problem, at which point you can invest some of your skill points into SM, Spot, and Listen, which for the most part negates day-to-day social effects of low wis.

@Seppo: I don't think that riddle is hard if you have a low wisdom score. Rather, the high int/low wis would fail to see why it was a riddle, because it's so immediately obvious what the answer is. They might go looking for a third, non-obvious answer.

[Red Fel]

High Int, low Wis is basically your absent-minded, awkward, or oblivious genius, a trope that absolutely clutters media. There's one such character on almost every series on television by now, and many of them are particularly obnoxious caricatures. (See e.g. Big Bang Theory.)

Basically, think of your favorite TV series. You know the smart character on that? Has all the answers, but humorously misses obvious things or social cues? That's a perfect (and loathsome) illustration of the concept.

[Seppo87]

High Int, low Wis is basically your absent-minded, awkward, or oblivious genius, a trope that absolutely clutters media. There's one such character on almost every series on television by now, and many of them are particularly obnoxious caricatures. (See e.g. Big Bang Theory.)

Basically, think of your favorite TV series. You know the smart character on that? Has all the answers, but humorously misses obvious things or social cues? That's a perfect (and loathsome) illustration of the concept.
These character usually also have low charisma tho. That's what makes it so painful to watch.

For a charismatic "good int, bad wis" I'm not sure what characters one should look at.

Maybe Doc from Back to the Future, Konata from Lucky Star, Edna Mode from The Incredibles? Mybe they're just weird and their wis is not low tho. I'm not sure.



@Seppo: I don't think that riddle is hard if you have a low wisdom score. Rather, the high int/low wis would fail to see why it was a riddle, because it's so immediately obvious what the answer is. They might go looking for a third, non-obvious answer.
The answer is obvious if you're paying attention, which is tied to wis, not int. Int is for logical thinking, but no amount of logic can solve the riddle.

[Barstro]

This is a riddle that will be difficult for your character:
"Johnny’s mother had three children. The first child was named April. The second child was named May. What was the third child’s name?"

If he had at least Wis10 it would be easy to observe that Johnny's mother has a son named Johnny.
However he'll be probably too distracted by the apparently logical sequence of months.

I think you are illogically attributing "easily distracted" to low WIS.


However, maybe you decorated the belt in such a way that the character on the recieving end will hate to wear it. You should have picked that up, but he never explicitly said "I hate pink" and even if he did you were probably reading some book and didn't listen.
I like it. Now I just need a logical reason to do so. I'll be customizing all of my items like that. Thank you so much.

@Red Fel, et al;
The problem with that trope is those characters are generally narcissists. I could easily do that, but my character is the opposite; he exists purely to help the party. Were that not the case, he would have figured out that giving the caster all the great items is actually the correct thing to do power-wise.

How about being very logical, but having it be flawed?
Like Crystal's Pickle Death Attack (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0607.html)

[Barstro]

These character usually also have low charisma tho. That's what makes it so painful to watch.

To be clear, my PC has low CHA too (8).

[ExLibrisMortis]

The answer is obvious if you're paying attention, which is tied to wis, not int. Int is for logical thinking, but no amount of logic can solve the riddle.
Uh, it's logic that solves the riddle. That's the point. If you continue the pattern, you don't get the answer, but that is technically not what was asked - it's inferred from the asker starting a sequence. You have to take a step back, stop seeing the pattern, and just think logically. Admittedly, low wis may have trouble stepping back, but at the same time, a high-wis character will immediately sense what you want to hear ('June') and say that.

[Seppo87]

I think you are illogically attributing "easily distracted" to low WIS.

That's literally written in the 3.5 handbook


Uh, it's logic that solves the riddle. That's the point. If you continue the pattern, you don't get the answer, but that is technically not what was asked - it's inferred from the asker starting a sequence. You have to take a step back, stop seeing the pattern, and just think logically. Admittedly, low wis may have trouble stepping back, but at the same time, a high-wis character will immediately sense what you want to hear ('June') and say that.

Seeing a pattern and trying to continue it is a sign of high INT. Understanding that the pattern is not useful in any practical way is a sign of high WIS.
INT is for abstract logic and patterns, WIS is to decide what makes sense.

Actually, a high WIS character will instinctively sense that something's up and you're trying to trick him, so he'll easily step back, suddenly remember that you said "johnny's mom" and give the correct answer with ease.


Has a tendency to miss forests for trees.

This sums it up IMHO

[Segev]

My character in a PF modern (ish) game has 21 Int, 10 Wis, so while he's not "low" Wisdom, his Int sometimes gets him in trouble before his average Wis can kick in.

The way I play him is as always quite confident that he either knows the answer or can figure it out, always has a few plans in mind for how to find solutions (if not already formulating solutions directly), and while he's not stupid enough to leap before he looks, he is overconfident about how well he understands what he saw in a very brief look and his ability to riddle his way out of trouble if he finds something unexpected.

He is eager, quick-witted, but tends to approach things with an analytic mindset rather than an intuitive one. He doesn't appreciate danger on a visceral level, but only on a level of weighing odds of success, failure, and hazard. This means he'll act with seeming foolishness, and the only reason it doesn't result in disaster more often than not is because he's thinking his way through the trouble.

He's not terribly observant, but he studies his environment obsessively. Has a tendency to miss forests for trees. That really fascinating demonic hydra is cool and he wonders if he could ride and tame it...forgetting that it's a demonic hydra and maybe he should be more concerned with getting away from it than taming it!

[Barstro]

That's literally written in the 3.5 handbook

I really wish that meant it was correct, but these books seem filled with mistakes; I think the authors were attributing things incorrectly. This seems like a logic puzzle that relies on intelligence.

That said, I am trying to attribute things to my character by RAW, so it's far from a bad point to give that example.


Actually, a high WIS character will instinctively sense that something's up and you're trying to trick him, so he'll easily step back, suddenly remember that you said "johnny's mom" and give the correct answer with ease.
Still not sure I attribute that to high WIS, but I do see your point.

[Seppo87]

I really wish that meant it was correct, but these books seem filled with mistakes; I think the authors were attributing things incorrectly. This seems like a logic puzzle that relies on intelligence
The handbook says low wis is represented by easily distracted, does not mention the riddle.

[Âmesang]

Doc Brown from Back to the Future is another good example.
It definitely sounds like the "mad scientist" kind of personality, especially if the character has at least an average Charisma. "I've got the most scathingly brilliant idea!" I've an Int 16/Wis 9/Cha 28 archmage, and I've tended to play her as thinking a mile-a-minute, flitting from one idea to another (which she believes are all genius) due to being wholly narcissistic, vain, conceited, egotistical, self-centered, self-absorbed, &c., &c… She doesn't really take the time to truly think her actions through, though, nor is she really willing to listen to others opinions because, after all, who's the archmage here? :smallamused: It's the kind of ego that leaves her wondering why she keeps finding herself in trouble. "What do you mean researching the Invoked Devastation is a bad idea?" At least she has her bountiful Charisma to help smooth things over…

It may-or-may-not help that I consider myself to be of good Intelligence and low Wisdom, so any foolish or impulsive actions in-character can be blamed on not knowing any better myself.


This is a riddle that will be difficult for your character:
"Johnny’s mother had three children. The first child was named April. The second child was named May. What was the third child’s name?"

If he had at least Wis10 it would be easy to observe that Johnny's mother has a son named Johnny.
However he'll be probably too distracted by the apparently logical sequence of months.
To be fair you said had, not has—past tense. Would it not be reasonable to say that she had three children but now she has four? :smalltongue: Which would make the obvious answer "August." Johnny's mother is a Roman history buff.

[Barstro]

The handbook says low wis is represented by easily distracted, does not mention the riddle.
Ah, I see.

I don't think high INT with low WIS equals ADHD, though. I think it's more "being distracted from something boring so I can concentrate on something I find really important right now". Like my fiance talking about her family when there's a "much more important" show on television. :smallwink:

Applying that, I think such a character would stop and pore over that riddle to come up with the solution;
A verbal patterns is not the same as a mathematical pattern.
"April" and "May" does not automatically lead to "June" (But, if it did, the fourth child would be called "Jason").
Even if names were for months, it's possible that the other child is Marsha.
The riddle cannot be solved from just that one sentence.
Look at the whole riddle.
Where does Johnny fit in?
How is "Mother" defined?
etc.

[Barstro]

It definitely sounds like the "mad scientist" kind of personality, especially if the character has at least an average Charisma. "I've got the most scathingly brilliant idea!" I've an Int 16/Wis 9/Cha 28 archmage, and I've tended to play her as thinking a mile-a-minute, flitting from one idea to another (which she believes are all genius) due to being wholly narcissistic

Again;
Low CHA
Absolutely not a narcissist.
:smallsmile:

[Gildedragon]

Brilliant but not insightful in the least.
The sort of person that will make elaborate plans and deductions and miss the simple answer right in front of them.
Cha 8 means not much more socially awkward than the average Joe.

Example:
There's a room with a locked door and a dozen keys:
You will infer from the make and style of the door, and that of the keys, which key it might be. Or examinate the keys thoroughly (taking 20) to find the wear and scratches on each key that indicate it is the most often used one.
You will not consider that it will be quicker to just try all 12 keys. It isn't that many.

[Âmesang]

Well my intent was representing a character that wasn't too aware of the world around her; a low Charisma character would probably have perpetual "foot-in-mouth" disease, always saying the wrong thing at the wrong time despite having no intention of causing any verbal harm to others.

Very much a "hindsight is 20/20" sort, I suppose, especially if the character is lost in thought (which doesn't require being narcissistic at all, just easily distracted by a particular detail).

[TheIronGolem]

Again;
Low CHA
Absolutely not a narcissist.
:smallsmile:

That doesn't really follow. If you say your character isn't a narcissist, then they aren't, but their CHA score isn't proof of that. A character can be narcissistic with any CHA score.

Anyway, I think it's a mistake to assume that a character's personality ought to be dictated by their ability scores. Step back from the various definitions of "intelligence", "wisdom", and "charisma". Pretend their names are "bleeble", "blobble", and "blorble" for a few minutes, just to keep them from getting in the way. Look at what these abilities actually do in-game. What do they make your character better or worse at? How is that likely to shape the way they view and interact with the world around them, given their past?

Once you start teasing out those answers, ask yourself if they match the concept you had in mind when you made this character. If they do, sweet, you've done a good job of representing the character mechanically. If not, now is a good time to ask the DM to let you adjust some of those scores.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Seeing a pattern and trying to continue it is a sign of high INT. Understanding that the pattern is not useful in any practical way is a sign of high WIS.
INT is for abstract logic and patterns, WIS is to decide what makes sense.

Actually, a high WIS character will instinctively sense that something's up and you're trying to trick him, so he'll easily step back, suddenly remember that you said "johnny's mom" and give the correct answer with ease.
No, following a pattern is not a sign of high int. Seeing it, yes (but this pattern requires int 3), but not following it, and that's the crucial point of the riddle: following the pattern is the 'intuitive' thing to do, but not the 'right' thing to do. It's a sign of 'thinking along with the speaker', which is more a wisdom-based thing than anything. With high int, you conclude that there is a pattern. With high wis, you conclude that the pattern is probably there for a reason, and likely follow it. With high wis and knowing it's a trick question, you'll step back and figure it out.

Overall, the riddle is far too easy to be an accurate measure of high int/wis. Maybe you could use it as a measure of 3-6 int/wis, but past 8 or so, it's not useful. That's before we even get into how crappily thin the difference between int and wis is in the first place.

[Barstro]

That doesn't really follow. If you say your character isn't a narcissist, then they aren't, but their CHA score isn't proof of that. A character can be narcissistic with any CHA score.

I was making two separate points, not drawing any sort of correlation or causation.
My character has low CHA.
My character's background and personality is the opposite of narcissist.

As the Original Poster who is requesting assistance in how to roleplay the character, I am trying to dissuade people from suggesting the "Doc Brown" or "Sheldon Cooper" type of character as a role model. While those are decent suggestions for high INT, low WIS, they are specifically not the purpose of this thread.

[Gildedragon]

Let's look at what wisdom covers:
Senses (listen, spot, sense motive), Will power (autohypnosis and will saves), and the managing of day to day life (survival, heal, profession)

Outside of the Will Save which is, your mental resilience, these are all skills and what role they play will depend on other modifiers and ranks

The character probably distrusts their hunches...
With the Keen Intellect feat they can use their intelligence to go against their decisions.
They are probably the sort to spend a long time trying to figure out the optimal choice at a restaurant

High int prolly has them aware of their poor track record and probably deffer to another in matters of perception... Or when possible take their time to examine things (take 20)