Any ideas what to play? 3.5/P

[Devigor]

So, we're doing a thing where if some people don't show up we use extra characters, or simply switch characters as we like for each session. I've been directed to make a tertiary character beyond my secondary. I want to make it so that it is a good 6th wheel of a party, and at the same time not stepping on anyone's toes. I thought of playing a bard/warblade that uses WR and Undersong while giving bardic music bonuses, but my secondary character will already be using WR, and I don't want them to feel the same. I'm up for almost anything, though, really, as long as I don't outshine anyone.

NOTE: Pathfinder is approved/back-ported on a case-by-case basis.

We have:


A1: A human fighter 6/blademaster 6 (custom prestige class), uses combat expertise and rarely if ever gets hit, who does "eh" damage, makes a lot of the tactical decisions outside of combat and ties up enemies (except mages, who wreck him)
A2: In the works, so unsure, except that it is a grappling build meant to break limbs

B1: A half-orc ranger 2/samurai 3/iaijutsu master 7 (I think), who does lots of decapitations with "called shot" houserules, that has a lot of HP but low AC, and almost always succeeds on saves
B2: A (maybe evil) human fighter/blademaster meant to shred things like a flesh blender
B3: In the works, a high elf (custom race, basically a SLA-less drow) stuff-I-don't-know/true bladesinger (wiki homebrew) focusing on the classic melee-plus-combat-spells gish

C1: An elf ranger 12 (archer style) who gets critical hits about once per full attack, helps out with minor utility with animal companion and spells out of combat, and is pretty much always out of range/out of mind of the spellcasters
C2: In the works, no clue

D1: A halfling druid 12, who focuses on spellcasting for now and is trying to ease her way into the complex parts of playing the class (i.e., wildshape) carefully, using her animal companion mostly for flanking and hiding behind (it's a big lizard)
D2: In the works, no clue

E1: A dwarf rogue 12 (Not sure on this one), sort of sneaky, decent at all things rogue-ish, loves making traps, and gets extra benefits underground
E2: In the works, a multi-personality necromancy cleric designed around doing a mix of protective stuff and slaying folks, sounds like it'll be a fun and powerful character

F1(Me): A dwarf cleric 1/artificer 5/unbound scroll 4 (non-eberron, racial requirement waived)/legacy champion 2 (advancing unbound scroll) who has custom armor (which is actually more expensive all things put together than crafting each part individually (it's for style points and the fact that it's a legacy item and her item familiar), a gargantuan gauntlet (titan bloodline, the thing is 32 lb.), and a casting glove, and doesn't even really use scrolls (it'd be OP, I grabbed all of that for "just in case", mostly just using infusions so far) that has helped out a lot utility wise (and with a lucky critical hit on a ninja with her Prismatic Burst effect on her gauntlet, made someone permanently insane)
F2(Me): A kenku battle magician 12 (it's the only thing in the signature of this shared account right now) that focuses on lots of Aid Another use (to power ToB maneuvers, which will mostly be WR strikes and IH counters, but I have DW and TC if we have no other meleers for a session for some reason), and is a skill-monkey out of combat
F3(Me): This post.

[BowStreetRunner]

This sounds like a job for a Chameleon or similar build. Something eminently flexible. Incarnum builds can do this too.

[Devigor]

This sounds like a job for a Chameleon or similar build. Something eminently flexible. Incarnum builds can do this too.

Hmm, that's something I should have already thought of. Thanks for that tip. Perhaps an unseelie changeling with an end build of factotum 8/warshaper 3/totemist 4/chameleon 5 would work out, given soulfire armor and a decent weapons array for changing identities/combat tactics.

[aloofscarab]

You could look at a Shadowcraft Mage build as well, just don't go crazy on your usage and you'd be crazy flexible as well as have some power behind you.

[Waker]

Honestly considering how front heavy the party is, going with a dedicated buffer could really help. Wizard, Sorcerer or Sha'ir going into War Weaver would really act as a force multiplier for the group. And because of how efficient the PrC is, you can then spend the rest of combat in other actions like BFC or damage if you wanna. Maybe stock up on utility spells like divination to give you something to do outside of combat.

[Devigor]

Honestly considering how front heavy the party is, going with a dedicated buffer could really help. *Snip*

I love the SC mage idea, but it wouldn't really fit with what we have going on. Namely, it's been banned. :smallsigh:

Going War Weaver is honestly the most party-friendly way so far suggested, so that's close on the radar. I'll be pointing these out to the group and seeing what they think. The thing is, I don't really know how War Weaver works well enough to play it without getting it banned; move action "our whole team's buffed now" is practical, but the implementation at our table may just increase the challenge levels we'd be set up against. I'll talk to the DM, too.

[Waker]

I love the SC mage idea, but it wouldn't really fit with what we have going on. Namely, it's been banned. :smallsigh:

Going War Weaver is honestly the most party-friendly way so far suggested, so that's close on the radar. I'll be pointing these out to the group and seeing what they think. The thing is, I don't really know how War Weaver works well enough to play it without getting it banned; move action "our whole team's buffed now" is practical, but the implementation at our table may just increase the challenge levels we'd be set up against. I'll talk to the DM, too.

What about War Weaver do you need explained?

[Devigor]

What about War Weaver do you need explained?

How to play it so my DM and/or group won't think it's OP.

[aloofscarab]

If psionic isn't banned you could go with a psion, great utility and damage powers, all sorts of options depending on your discipline.

[Waker]

How to play it so my DM and/or group won't think it's OP.

That is largely gonna be dependent on what spells you choose to use with the class. Please take note of the level restriction on spells cast through the Tapestry, only up to 5th level. You can choose up to 4 spells up to 5th level to cast through the Tapestry as a move action. You'll need to make note of the trends and tactics of both the party and the enemies you face, but some examples of good spells to store for usage are: Haste, Protection from Energy, Fly, Protection from Evil, the various attribute buffing spells like Bull's Strength and so on. These are all lower level spells, but they tend to provide decent benefits like increased movement, resistance against mind control etc. After that, you just need to make sure your later contributions to the fight don't outshine everyone too much. I'd say go with something like direct damage or the occasional control spell.
People are more likely to complain about you being overpowered if you one-shot the boss or lock down the entire battlefield with BFC. Rarely do the frontline fighters complain that "Could you go easy on the spells? You're turning me into some kinda killing machine." The DM is only likely to complain if you manage to obviate their challenges, but that is true of nearly anyone playing a spellcaster.

[Devigor]

You have made some excellent points. I don't know how to explain the reasons they call my characters overpowered, because I really am not sure yet. There has been little in the way of constructive criticism when I've asked. The luck of the dice is usually with me, too, which may be a basis for my minor paranoia.

Would it be a good idea to go with a cerebremancer/war weaver? I mean, with most of the lower level buffs being in the tapestry, and psionics allowing for a bit more utility (and much more versatile blasting), might the caster level loss be offset?

[BowStreetRunner]

You have made some excellent points. I don't know how to explain the reasons they call my characters overpowered, because I really am not sure yet. There has been little in the way of constructive criticism when I've asked. The luck of the dice is usually with me, too, which may be a basis for my minor paranoia.

Would it be a good idea to go with a cerebremancer/war weaver? I mean, with most of the lower level buffs being in the tapestry, and psionics allowing for a bit more utility (and much more versatile blasting), might the caster level loss be offset?

One thing I would avoid if your DM is like that would be offensive buffs. I've played with a bard who buffed us all up with extra damage and we calculated the bard was (indirectly) doing more damage per combat than any other member of the party. Defensive buffs and utility buffs are likely going to seem less OP to the DM.

[Waker]

Would it be a good idea to go with a cerebremancer/war weaver? I mean, with most of the lower level buffs being in the tapestry, and psionics allowing for a bit more utility (and much more versatile blasting), might the caster level loss be offset?

I dunno if mixing in cerebremancer would help. Typically you wanna get through War Weaver as fast as you can to get more spells for the tapestry, raising the levels for the spells in the tapestry and the icing on the cake of expanding the range. If you are really worried about overshadowing the party, play Sorcerer over Wizard. You won't have quite the same flexibility and you'll be one spell level lower in comparison to your druid friend (6th vs 5th level spells). Plus if there is one thing that Sorcerer can do well is spam damage spells. Maybe pick up a couple Reserve feats to give you some other options.

[ExLibrisMortis]

You could build a Mind Mage. It's a psionic/arcane theurge class, focused on metamagic/metapsionic use and high ML/CL, so it's pretty good for going nova, while maintaining a wide variety of abilities.

For example, go illumian psion (shaper) 3/focused abrupt jaunt wizard (conjurer) 1/cerebremancer 2/mind mage 10/cerebremancer +4. Improved Krau sigil to qualify early (and boost your CL a bit), plus Psiotheurgist for Metacreativity. You also need two psi-spell feats, which are decent (good with low-level scaling spells, primarily). Psiotheurgist stacks your CL and ML for Metacreativity and non-teleportation non-healing Conjuration spells (but then, you barely have healing).

At level 12, when the build just about comes online, you're casting as a wizard 7 and psion 9, with the sigil providing +2 CL (maybe +2 ML too, but not by RAW). You get +6 to your choice of CL or ML, switchable each day, which basically caps out a lot of your spells/powers, at CL/ML 15. Your non-teleportation Conjuration spells and Metacreativity powers are at CL/ML 24.

At level 20, you're talking casting as a wizard 15 and psion 17, with both CL and ML at 27, and a stacked ML of 54, which allows you to augment powers pretty stupidly far, a few times a day (how do you like 25 constitution damage on crystalstorm?).

[Bobby Baratheon]

A decent low-ish powered build that's still fun is sorcerer/warlock/eldritch theurge. There are some different ways you could build it, and I don't really see it outshining the beatsticks in hand to hand unless you go full on glaivelock, and even then it probably won't.

Alternatively, you could go for a fear based caster. Dread witch/sorcerer is always fun, and the fact that your fear powers will not always work may help alleviate concerns about being OP. Nightmare spinner is a lot of fun too!

[Devigor]

I forgot probably the most important note about this campaign: it is mostly undead-filled. There is a lot of variety, but it's an undead-themed campaign.