[pathfinder] Help me rebuild my old blind character

[Mikalo]

I have a character I played in 3.5 I really want to play in pathfinder using pathfinder society rules. She was a Crusader/Cloistered Cleric/Ruby Knight Vindicator but all the fluff was about being a blind stormcaller holywarrior. Now I'm trying to recreate it in pf and having some issues. Since being blind was part of the concept of the original character being an Oracle with the Clouded Vision curse is a must. I thought to mix it with Paladin levels (the character is lawful good afterall) but the Magus seems like a really good class in terms of playstyle, it can fight armorless and use a single weapon that can grow up with levels (kinda annoyed you have to take Dervish Dance to make it optimized, I was trying to stick with the iconic longsword). I know Oracle/Magus is MAD as hell and it really doesn't get any good combo but I really don't know about the paladin, it forces me to go sword and board to be tanky. As you can see I'm really confused hahaha
So to get this straight the concepts of the character are: 1) Being almost blind 2) Lightning flavor mumbo jumbo 3) Fightning with a single blade (I can take an armor if I really have to). I don't care if I play a tank or a dps till I respect the concepts.
Please help me °^°

[CharonsHelper]

Look up an Oradin build. There are several variants, but they're a very potent Oracle/Paladin combination. And most don't go sword & board (In Pathfinder moreso than 3.5 sword & board is a bit sub-par unless using TWF) they go with a greatsword or nodachi so that they have a hand free for spell-casting & lay-on-hands. With the self-healing and high saves, they're quite tanky, though the AC will probably only end up being average.

And yes, magus/Oracle is rather weak. Not because of how MAD they are (there is a magus archetype which casts with CHA) but because mixing two separate spell-casters is nearly always a bad decision. (Paladin is primarily a martial with a bit of casting added in.)

[Mikalo]

Paladin/Oracle with a greatsword it is then!
What about the feats?

[Mikalo]

or what if... I combine the 3 classes? It sounds so unusable hahaha but I am mad enough to try. I would have everything I want at least 1) Blind 2) Electricity stuff 3) Agile holywarrior that uses a single weapon 4) Smart character that knows stuff but deal little damage (this part was covered by the cloistered cleric in 3.5)
At least with the Crusader everything was easy and in 3.5 I had flaws to cover the blind thingy. I miss the tome of battle ;_;

[Waker]

How about Bard with the Magician or Arcane Duelist Archetypes? The former gives you better spell selection while the latter is more about fighting. Either way, charisma synergy with Oracle.

[CharonsHelper]

or what if... I combine the 3 classes? It sounds so unusable hahaha but I am mad enough to try. I would have everything I want at least 1) Blind 2) Electricity stuff 3) Agile holywarrior that uses a single weapon 4) Smart character that knows stuff but deal little damage (this part was covered by the cloistered cleric in 3.5)
At least with the Crusader everything was easy and in 3.5 I had flaws to cover the blind thingy. I miss the tome of battle ;_;

Unlike 3.5, in Pathfinder, multi-classing very much is generally a bad decision. The magus abilities wouldn't be high enough level to be nearly as beneficial as the lost paladin levels are detrimental. (Of note: in Pathfinder, paladin is considerably more potent than it was in 3.5.)

There are a lot of guides for the Oradin. There's one on these boards, though it's a bit old - http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?257365-PF-Oradin-Mini-Guide-Or-How-to-be-a-Healbot-minus-the-bot

You should probably consider the Fey Foundling feat at level 1, but other than that, it's not that hard to build.

What makes it really awesome is that it's about the only way that in-combat healing is viable. And it's probably the best 'tank' in the game since, unlike in an MMO, it's difficult to forget anyone to attack you vs your party members. (There is Antagonize, but it's pretty limited.)

1+ Levels of Oracle with the Life Mystery, grabbing the Life Link revelation. This allows you to form a 'bond' with an Ally. At the beginning of each round, if that ally is hurt they automatically heal 5HP, and the Oracle loses 5HP. You may only have as many Life Links active as you do Oracle levels.
The main benefit of this is that you don't have to worry about chasing everyone down to heal them. You can just heal yourself.
The Life Mystery also offers Channel Energy for healing (positive energy only).

The 2nd part of the build is 2+ Levels of Paladin. Lay on Hands can be used on yourself as a Swift action, instead of the normal other-target-Standard action.
So every round your Life Link(s) will trigger, and if needed you just spend a Swift action to heal yourself, leaving your Standard+Move or Full actions free to do as you please.


Shield Other is similar in concept to Life Link, but functions differently enough that an Oradin can still make good use of both.

Shield Other is a 2nd level Divine Spell. When the Target is attacked/injured it only takes 1/2 damage, and the other 1/2 is transferred to you, the caster.
Shield Other is better in that it transfers the damage instantly, so there is less chance of, say, the Wizard being 1-shotted. Whereas Life Link the original target takes all of the damage, and is slowly, but fully, healed/transferred over multiple rounds.
The downside to Shield Other is that it is a 2nd level spell, using a slot that could be used for something else, and making it less accessible for low level starts.
Shield Other also has a duration of 1 hour/level, which while generous, still can't compare to the unlimited-duration Life Link.
Shield Other has a range of 25ft. +5 per 2 levels, Life Link has a Medium Range of 100ft. +10/level.

In case of Emergency (i.e. YOU are about to die), any/all Life Link(s) can be ended with one Immediate action. Shield Other requires a Standard action to end, and each must be ended separately.

Finally, you may only have as many Life Links active as you have levels of Oracle. The only quantity limits on Shield Other are how many level 2 spell slots you have.

Shield Other being a 2nd level divine spell is why the standard Oradin build goes 4 levels of Oracle (plus only loses 1 BAB that way). And by level 4 your Life Link can effect either everyone or nearly everyone in the party.

[Mikalo]

Yes yes I was aware of all the combo an Oradin can do but I lose a lot of the original character like this :( I am not set on any build, I just want to keep my old character in pathfinder (she had a couple of iconic stuff like blindness and electricity but I can roleplay the rest)
I was going to be full Magus in truth but you can't be blind and effective without dipping in Oracle and they don't stack well :\ otherwise I would completely ditch the Oracle

*I always could be an Oradin and find some electricity stuff I always use as a signature move. I so want this to work hahaha I loved that character when I played d&d. The RKV combo was pretty neat but oh man, I had a lot of fun with the rp. She was the politician of the group, smart and charismatic enough to play her allignment at the best, the first time I managed to put the others on shame for their character's behaviors

[CharonsHelper]

Yes yes I was aware of all the combo an Oradin can do but I lose a lot of the original character like this :( I am not set on any build, I just want to keep my old character in pathfinder (she had a couple of iconic stuff like blindness and electricity but I can roleplay the rest)
I was going to be full Magus in truth but you can't be blind and effective without dipping in Oracle and they don't stack well :\ otherwise I would completely ditch the Oracle

*I always could be an Oradin and find some electricity stuff I always use as a signature move. I so want this to work hahaha I loved that character when I played d&d

No - the mechanics of being a blind character don't really work well in Pathfinder because they combined Spot & Listen.

I had a 3.5 blind character of my own using the Combat Focus tree to get blindsight 5ft and Keen Listener to make finding the squares foes were in a cinch. It was great because I could use my 3.5 Tower Shield (the Tower Shield nerf is one of the few Pathfinder simplifications which I really don't like) as total cover without screwing up my line of sight.

If you want to stick with the high offense electricity theme, I'd suggest leaving your blindness as mostly fluff. You could then either go Magus (the Shocking Grasp build is a pretty standard one) or Bloodrager to focus on electricity, or maybe Warpriest if you want the cleric vibe in the mix. You could have darkvision and take Blind-Fight to help them 'feel' blind mechanically and just never use ranged attacks past 60ft or so. Blind-Fight isn't a bad choice anyway to beat spell defenses like Blur/Displacement/Mirror Image. Plus helps with fog etc. (Darkvision is great in PFS because there are several missions with the Darkness spell in already dim areas which can be a huge hassle without darkvision.)

[Mikalo]

What if... I go full magus with the blade bound archetype, I say I am blind (without using the oracle curse), I take Blind Fight and then I ask my sword where do I have to attack?
As far for Perception I don't really care, she is more a Diplomacy type of character. Still the fact that the sword can see for me is intriguing

[CharonsHelper]

What if... I go full magus with the blade bound archetype, I say I am blind (without using the oracle curse), I take Blind Fight and then I ask my sword where do I have to attack?
As far for Perception I don't really care, she is more a Diplomacy type of character. Still the fact that the sword can see for me is intriguing

Also, if you want to go unarmored, you should combine Kensai with Bladebound.

Past level 2-3, they'll have a higher AC due to getting Int added in. Go with a Dervish Dance build, throw on Mage Armor, and your AC will be nuts.

[Mikalo]

Yes, absolutely going to do that. I was thinking a single level dip in Oracle shouldn't hurt so much, I can't see the synergy but whatever. At least I'm not going to lose a feat for Blind Fight and having an intelligent sword will surely help

[Mikalo]

*Ok I gave up on some of my ideas. Pfs rules are really harsh for my standards T_T I'm going Oradin and just imagine to produce lightnings when I smite evil ._. yaay -_-
I'm going to be an healer and feel useful at least

[CharonsHelper]

*Ok I gave up on some of my ideas. Pfs rules are really harsh for my standards T_T I'm going Oradin and just imagine to produce lightnings when I smite evil ._. yaay -_-
I'm going to be an healer and feel useful at least

I will say - in PFS everyone will love you. From what I've seen, support roles are generally way underrepresented. (Everybody is happy to hear if I'm playing my bard when I sit at a table except for the one time we were double bard.) If you can throw down some damage on top of that, plus deal with social situations decently (just diplomacy is fine), you'll have no issues in PFS.

PFS is a bit strict, but it's sort of the nature of the beast. Since everything is standardized, they can't make judgment calls like a home GM can.

[Mikalo]

So I'm going Human Paladin (Hospitaler) 16/Oracle 4 (with Life link and clouded vision obviously)
My stats are 16, 10, 14, 10, 10, 14. I don't want to go below 10 with anything, I mean I still want to rp and she is supposed to be a politician kind of character (roleplay a really smart character with 7 int and 8 wis would feel uhm, wrong). Oh, I'll be using a longsword two handed... not optimized but sexy.
I took extra lay on hands, fey foundling, toughness, greater mercy. I still need 7 feats, I should use them to not suck in melee I guess, any suggestion? Apart from the Power Attack route

[CharonsHelper]

So I'm going Human Paladin (Hospitaler) 16/Oracle 4 (with Life link and clouded vision obviously)
My stats are 16, 10, 14, 10, 10, 14. I don't want to go below 10 with anything, I mean I still want to rp and she is supposed to be a politician kind of character (roleplay a really smart character with 7 int and 8 wis would feel uhm, wrong). Oh, I'll be using a longsword two handed... not optimized but sexy.
I took extra lay on hands, fey foundling, toughness, greater mercy. I still need 7 feats, I should use them to not suck in melee I guess, any suggestion? Apart from the Power Attack route

Of note: in Pathfinder humans get +2 to any one stat, so you can go 18,10,14,10,10,14 on a 20pt buy. (Though dropping Wis to 8 for a 12 Dex for AC wouldn't be bad considering how many different ways you'll be boosting your Will save.) Though I'm with you, I never dump Int, because I don't like the idea of playing a dumb character.

Power Attack is a very good choice (better in Pathfinder than in 3.5) and pretty standard for two-handers.

Depending upon your vibe, you could go with the Enforcer/Blade of Mercy combo. The Blade of Mercy trait lets you do nonlethal with slashing weapons while Enforcer gives you intimidate checks every time you do nonlethal damage. (making them Frightened on a crit)

[Mikalo]

The enforcer combo is awesome thanks! <3

I actually put the +2 on Con so I have 16-10-16-10-10-14 should I put it on strenght and focus less on Life link?

[CharonsHelper]

The enforcer combo is awesome thanks! <3

Yeah - I have a Samurai who uses it. It's a lot of fun. (Though you might consider a 18-20 crit weapon to get the Frightened effect to go off more often. It also makes Improved Critical an even better feat at level 9 to get a 15-20 range.) It might be worth burning your other trait to get +1 to Intimidate and get it as a class skill. (+4 total bonus)


I actually put the +2 on Con so I have 16-10-16-10-10-14 should I put it on strenght and focus less on Life link?

Maybe? I probably would, but it depends upon the vibe you want. (I've never played an Oradin, but I think it's more about self-healing than having raw HP.)

Another feat that you should grab is Weapon Focus. Always a solid choice, but a paladin's accuracy is a bit low when they aren't smiting, and the Oracle levels lower it a bit more. (One reason why I'd probably go with the 18 STR)

[Mikalo]

Ok then, 18 strenght and weapon focus it is

[Mikalo]

Ok as you can see I started with an old concept and got something else at the end, I'm still respecting the background of the character... I also enhanced it, it's more complex now and I like it (it was a 14 page bg already)
Anywayyy! This is what I got after all the suggestions. I built an Oradin build at the beginning but it didn't look very fun so I said "what about you play the character you want and have fun with it?" what's the fun of playing a premade build when you can play a good chararacter?
Please tell me if I took something PFS illegal.

Ragna Karolina Berker, Female, Human (Dual Talent), Bloodrager 1/Paladin 19 (Oath of Vengeance), Lawful Good, Deity: Andoletta

Traits: Extremely fashionable (Diplomacy), Blessed Touch
Feats: (1) Aberrant Tumor, (3) Toughness, (5) Power Attack, and then Extra Lay on Hands till lv20
Weapon: First 4 levels Sword and Board, then Greatsword
Stats: 18, 10, 14, 10, 10, 16


It's a pretty easy build. I decided to not take any weapon specific feat so I can be effective with every weapon (if my greatsword gets destroyed or lost or whatever), other good choices (while really good) are still very situational so I decided to take Extra Lay on Hands to smite the entire day or heal myself forever. I would call her a tank (?) even if her ac is pretty low, no one cares about ac at high level

[CharonsHelper]

Just a few critiques (it's not bad - but since you're asking) -

1. Why take the Diplomacy trait? The reason to take it is to get it as a class skill, and it's already a class skill.

2. Worrying about multiple weapons is a non-issue in PFS. You have to buy all of your gear. Anything you find vanishes at the end of the module.

3. I wouldn't worry about having that many Lay on Hands.

4. Why the Bloodrager dip?

5. You can make AC very solid even at higher levels as long as you get the big 6.

[Mikalo]

1) It gives fluff and a +1 to diplomacy. I love Diplomacy

2) I don't like focusing on a single weapon, never liked that. That's why I loved the Warblade so much in 3.5

3) Lay on hands is fantastic as a self heal and they can be turned to Smite evil with the Oath of vengenace archetype

4) I hate the Paladin capstone and I love the Tumor familiar. It has half my hp, fast healing 5 and I can share the damage with it, at First level I have 12hp+6 to spare with the Tumor, at least I'm not going to die from a crit. Oh and then I can rage, this bump my hp up to 14+6... and the tumor self heal every turn.

Forget it ._. Reading it again it gives the ability to Split damage starting at level 5.
We must dip deeper

5) Nah, too many ways to overcome ac and you need to focus on it a lot, not my case

If it isn't clear the point of the build is being really hard to take down and....SMITE ALL THE EVIL

Pic related: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/16506663/images/1317676945369.jpg

[CharonsHelper]

4) I hate the Paladin capstone

That doesn't really matter in PFS. PFS basically ends at level 12. There are a few modules beyond 12, but they're few and far between. (Pathfinder system starts to break down at level 10-12 anyway, and casters get so crazy that pre-defined modules become impossible to predict.)

[Mikalo]

Yeah I've read it somewhere. Well whatever, I just want to build a "I have more hp than you" kind of character and the Aberrant bloodline gives so much fluff, I love all of this fluff °w°

What about Rager1/Paladin 3/Rager4/Paladin4 without the Dual Talent trait? It gives me a way to cure fatigue, reach, the tumor Split ability and another extra lay on hands instead of the +2 to charisma (lol), with so many lay on hands I'll just smite the entire scenario and call it a day, I'm sure I'll get enough to self heal and Hero Defiance too
If it's evil I smite it, if not I can still use diplomacy (and get a bonus from the thrush tumor familiar too)
*found a trait better than extremely fashionable: Altruistic Diplomat