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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Occult Agent (Rogue Subclass: Dishonored)



Revlid
2016-07-26, 11:51 AM
I tried to do a simpler version of this, with just the standard-issue "two 3rd level powers, one 9th level, one 13th level, one 17th level" Rogue subclass setup. I might still have to go back to that, but I got antsy, and this happened. Genuinely no idea how balanced it is or isn't.

Occult Agent
Above, the gods. Below, the fiends. Here, us. Such is the extent of most mortals’ cosmological understanding, but in the cracks between realms, in the space beyond the stars, lie alien intelligences enraptured by the delicate bauble of reality. Such powers drive bards to madness and draw warlocks into incomprehensible pacts, but often they have needs subtler and stranger than a herald can fulfil.

Perhaps they feel some kinship with those who stick to the shadows or are forced into the corners of society, living as they do outside the perception of heaven and earth alike. Perhaps their amusements lean toward anarchy and subversion, a desire fulfilled by unleashing a maddened assassin onto the streets. Perhaps mere happenstance saw a burglar steal a strange work of art that would have been better left alone, lest its owner come calling.

Whatever their origin, the Occult Agent employs blasphemous powers in their pursuit of criminal aims, drawing on aspects of the alien pseudo-realm that haunts their dreams. Such powers can be potent tools, but where a jaunt through another reality might save a thief from the noose, it does little for their sanity. Few rogues of this sort live long without succumbing to madness.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11116/111167398/4176783-6252097769-Corvo.jpg

Abstracted Lore
Starting at 3rd level, your illicit exploration of the void has warped your already-cunning mind into strange knots, granting you the following benefits.

Warped Step. You may use a bonus action to fold yourself through a slick tear into eldritch space. You instantly disappear and reappear in an unoccupied space you can see, anywhere within your remaining move distance. This reduces your remaining move distance by an equal number of feet, but also offers the benefits of a Disengage action. You cannot move "through" an airtight or warded barrier.
Void Gaze. While you are successfully hidden, you receive the benefits of the detect magic spell, as well as darkvision within its radius.


Stolen Runes
At 9th level your brain develops strange lesions and bulges, runes stolen from an alien realm. You can use your action to employ one of these runes, hissing a pilfered syllable in the same manner as a verbal component. You may use your runes a total number of times equal to half your number of Sneak Attack dice (rounded up) + 1. You regain all uses when you complete a short or long rest.

Entropy. You conjure a creature swarm (such as a rat swarm) of challenge rating 1/4 or lower into an unoccupied space within 30 feet. This is actually an intelligent aberration that is friendly to you and obeys your commands. It disappears if killed, or after an hour passes, and can use its action to completely and instantly devour any Medium-sized or smaller corpse with no ill-effects. You can communicate and use its senses as though it were a familiar.
Vacuum. You cast gust of wind. This version of the spell lasts a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier, but forces a saving throw the moment it is first cast, and is guaranteed to extinguish protected light sources. The save DC for this spell is 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier.
Orbit. You adopt an alien gravity, granting you a climbing speed equal to your walking speed. You do not suffer fall damage, and can move up, down, under and across vertical and horizontal surfaces without using your hands. This effect lasts a number of minutes equal to your Wisdom modifier x 2.


Plundered Moments
Starting at 13th level you can reach out and steal precious seconds from the future, accelerating the ultimate demise of the cosmos. You use this feature on your turn, causing other characters to seem frozen while you act on stolen time, granting you advantage on attack rolls or opposed Ability checks unless they are under the effects of haste or similar time-dilation magic. You also apply two different benefits of your choice during this turn.

You make a single weapon attack.
You use an object.
You use a rune.
You Dodge.
You receive an extra bonus action.
You double your move distance.

You may use this feature a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier, minimum one. You regain all uses when you complete a long rest.

Dimensional Jailbreak
Starting at 17th level you may open inky eyes on an entirely alien perspective to cast etherealness. You can’t do so again until you finish a long rest. You may also cast contact other plane as a ritual to contact the forces of the outside, which provokes a saving throw with Wisdom instead of an Intelligence.

Outsider’s Lore
Starting at 3rd level, your exploration of the void has warped your mind into strange knots that you’ve learned to harness for magical effects. This capacity is represented by a number of charges equal to your number of Sneak Attack dice. When you spend a charge it is unavailable until you finish a short or long rest, at the end of which your mind is calmed enough to plunge into alien waters once more.

You can spend these charges to fuel occult runes that you know. Many of these runes emulate the effects of spells, but none of them require material components or concentration. Some of your runes require your target to make a saving throw. The saving throw DC is calculated as follows:

Rune save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom or Charisma modifier (your choice)

At 3rd level, you master 3 occult runes. You learn an additional occult rune at 6th, 9th, 12th and 15th and 18th level. Whenever you learn a new rune, you can also substitute one you know for another you could learn.


Awful Vacuum. You spend 1 charge and use an action to cast gust of wind with no verbal components. This version of the spell lasts only one round, but is guaranteed to extinguish protected light sources.

Broken Time. You spend 5 charges and use an action to cast time stop.

Decaying Space. You spend a number of charges and use an action to cast haste on yourself. This version of the spell allows you to take an additional bonus action instead of an additional action, if you wish, but lasts a number of rounds equal to your spent charges.

Entropic Swarm. You spend a number of charges and use your action to conjure an equal number of rat swarms (or similar swarms of challenge rating 1/4 or lower) into an unoccupied space within 10 feet. This is actually an intelligent aberration that is friendly to you and obeys your commands. It disappears if killed, or after an hour passes. You can communicate and use its senses as though it were a familiar.

Faded Weight. You spend 1 charge and use a bonus action or reaction to cast jump on yourself with no verbal components. This version of the spell lasts 1d4 + 1 rounds, but also conveys the benefits of feather fall for its duration.

Incomprehensible Form. You spend 1 charge and use a bonus action or your reaction to cast blur. This version of the spell renders you unrecognisable, but lasts only until the end of your next turn.

Lunatic Souvenir. You spend a number of charges and use an action to cast enthrall. This version of the spell is not focused on yourself, but on an object within 5 feet of you at the time of casting. It does not stop if you are incapacitated, but only lasts 1d4 rounds for every spent charge.

Maddening Grip. You spend 1 charge and use a bonus action to cast spider climb on yourself with no verbal components. This version of the spell lasts only one minute.

Refracted Reach. You spend 1 charge and use an action to extend a tendril of eldritch force from your palm, increasing your reach by 15 feet. You cannot use this tendril to attack, activate magic items or carry more than 10 pounds beyond your normal reach. This effect lasts 1 minute.

Secret Step. You spend 1 charge and use a bonus action to cast misty step with no verbal components.

Thought Cut. You spend 3 charges and use an action to possess an unconscious humanoid or friendly beast within 5 feet (creatures warded by protection from evil and good or a magic circle aren't affected). They must make a Charisma saving throw, or else your body disappears as you seize control of theirs. If they succeed, they immediately wake and become aware that you attempted to possess them. Otherwise, you control their body for 1 minute. Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the creature, though you retain your alignment and your Intelligence, Wisdom , and Charisma scores. You retain the benefit of your own class features. If the target has any class levels, you can’t use any of its class features. You can use your reaction to leave the creature's body, reappearing in an unoccupied space next to it. This also wakes it. If the creature dies while you are possessing it, you immediately suffer 5d6 psychic damage.

Void Gaze. You spend 1 charge and use a bonus action to cast detect magic or darkvision.

Cunning Runes
At 9th level your brain develops strange lesions and bulges, its fissures forming a familiar map of an alien realm. If you employ a rune with your bonus action, it costs one fewer charge than normal, to a minimum of none.

Entropy’s Wake
At 13th level you feed the evidence of your bloody work through pinholes in space, churning the fallen into quantum foam. You may use your action to obliterate the remains of any dead creature or destroyed Medium-sized or smaller object within 5 feet, as though it had been struck by the disintegrate spell. You can do so instantly, without using your action, when you kill a creature with your sneak attack.

Opened Inky Eye
At 17th level you may cast etherealness once, entering entirely into an alien perspective. You can’t do so again until you finish a long rest.

JeenLeen
2016-07-26, 12:24 PM
Especially since this is a rogue subclass, I could see allowing Wisdom or Charisma instead of just Wisdom. Charisma is force of personality and concept of self and will, so that makes sense when handling abnormalities from beyond this realm. Helps reduce MAD.

The runes sound pretty cool and good overall. A little more complicated than most abilities, since they are modified versions of spells (as opposed to new abilities or just spells), but it works. Some feel a little underpowered to me due to duration, such as the Spiderclimb, Jump, and Blur. You could have them last the normal duration, but still no concentration--but add that if you invoke a new rune, the old one vanishes. Especially with just Sneak Attack die charges per rest, the short duration really hurts. (But see related comment below)

With Cunning Runes, does that mean you can cast 1-cost runes for free? If yes, then the duration qualms from above are largely lifted. This seems weak until level 9, but then it levels out.

With the level 13 power, does that mean you can (as a 'free action') disintegrate whoever you kill via sneak attack and you can (as an action?) cause the body of someone you kill by other means to disintegrate? If yes to the latter, I recommend spelling it out better in the text (what action it uses, requires touch, etc.) Also, I could see letting you do that to any remains. Maybe include a dark form of Prestidigitation to clean blood, viscera, and destroy minor traces of evidence.

The level 17 ability feels weak. Being able to use Etherealness once per day is cool, but the downsides of Exhaustion and not being able to investigate the etherial plane are bad. Also potentially annoying to DMs who have to deal with another realm the PCs can interact with. It is cool thematically, but just feels subpar compared to other abilities.

On some particular runes
Refracted Reach: the Thief archetype can use a bonus action to pick locks/disable traps. The Arcane Trickster can do so at range via Mage Hand. This appears to let you do with a 15 foot reach, especially since it has a minute duration. Question: do you actually physically reach that far, or can this do things like let you reach through bars or even if you are manacled?
I was thinking of recommending that this be a bonus action to let it be free with Cunning Runes, but this archetype gets a lot of cool stuff, so a limited number of 'safely away' Thief Tool uses seems alright.

Thought Cut: this seems an odd mix of overpowered and questionable utility. The fact that they get a save each round really limits it to me, but otherwise this is really powerful for something you can grab at level 3. I don't really have any thoughts on how to improve it, but it just feels really iffy right now.

Void Gaze: maybe Detect Magic or Darkvision. Not overpowered to be combined into one rune, and Darkvision fits thematically.

Incomprehensible Form: I could see use a reaction or bonus action, unless you explicitly want this not to interact with Cunning Runes. I can see a potential 24/7 Blur being bad.

I could see adding another rune with something like Life Sense, to imitate Corvo's special vision of who was where and moving in what direction. Or maybe something that gives advantage on Perception checks, akin to the Keen Senses some animals have.

EDIT: Additional Thought
Although it doesn't need it, I could see something like Outsider's Lore also giving you expertise when using knowledge rolls about aberrations. Rarely useful, but fun and thematic, especially if you go with dark insights coming into your mind. Or maybe a rune (Strange Whispers?) that lets you spend a charge as a reaction to get advantage on a Knowledge check. A rough approximation of when you run into shrines and can get some insight into things from what the 'dark god' tells you.

Revlid
2016-07-26, 03:38 PM
Especially since this is a rogue subclass, I could see allowing Wisdom or Charisma instead of just Wisdom. Charisma is force of personality and concept of self and will, so that makes sense when handling abnormalities from beyond this realm. Helps reduce MAD.Hm, perhaps. I worry that makes the class too flexible, especially when it's themed around the mad exploration of this alien realm... but definitely maybe. It's only two or three powers, after all, and one of those needs serious surgery.


The runes sound pretty cool and good overall. A little more complicated than most abilities, since they are modified versions of spells (as opposed to new abilities or just spells), but it works. Some feel a little underpowered to me due to duration, such as the Spiderclimb, Jump, and Blur. You could have them last the normal duration, but still no concentration--but add that if you invoke a new rune, the old one vanishes. Especially with just Sneak Attack die charges per rest, the short duration really hurts. (But see related comment below)

With Cunning Runes, does that mean you can cast 1-cost runes for free? If yes, then the duration qualms from above are largely lifted. This seems weak until level 9, but then it levels out.Yes, that's the intent. I'll clarify it with my first edit... but you're not wrong about that leaving the relevant powers feeling underpowered until level 9. I'll take a look, anyway.


With the level 13 power, does that mean you can (as a 'free action') disintegrate whoever you kill via sneak attack and you can (as an action?) cause the body of someone you kill by other means to disintegrate? If yes to the latter, I recommend spelling it out better in the text (what action it uses, requires touch, etc.) Also, I could see letting you do that to any remains. Maybe include a dark form of Prestidigitation to clean blood, viscera, and destroy minor traces of evidence.I'll clarify this, and yes that sounds better.


The level 17 ability feels weak. Being able to use Etherealness once per day is cool, but the downsides of Exhaustion and not being able to investigate the etherial plane are bad. Also potentially annoying to DMs who have to deal with another realm the PCs can interact with. It is cool thematically, but just feels subpar compared to other abilities.I'll give this another look - the "alien realm" bit, in particular, was just intended to be flavour, I didn't consider the potential overheads.


On some particular runes
Refracted Reach: the Thief archetype can use a bonus action to pick locks/disable traps. The Arcane Trickster can do so at range via Mage Hand. This appears to let you do with a 15 foot reach, especially since it has a minute duration. Question: do you actually physically reach that far, or can this do things like let you reach through bars or even if you are manacled?
I was thinking of recommending that this be a bonus action to let it be free with Cunning Runes, but this archetype gets a lot of cool stuff, so a limited number of 'safely away' Thief Tool uses seems alright.

Thought Cut: this seems an odd mix of overpowered and questionable utility. The fact that they get a save each round really limits it to me, but otherwise this is really powerful for something you can grab at level 3. I don't really have any thoughts on how to improve it, but it just feels really iffy right now.

Void Gaze: maybe Detect Magic or Darkvision. Not overpowered to be combined into one rune, and Darkvision fits thematically.

Incomprehensible Form: I could see use a reaction or bonus action, unless you explicitly want this not to interact with Cunning Runes. I can see a potential 24/7 Blur being bad.

I could see adding another rune with something like Life Sense, to imitate Corvo's special vision of who was where and moving in what direction. Or maybe something that gives advantage on Perception checks, akin to the Keen Senses some animals have.Good thoughts all around. Thought Cut is indeed pretty ****ed, just because Corvo's Possession really lacks a D&D analogy. I'm going to switch it up a bit and see what happens.

Incomprehensible Form is indeed not meant to interact with Cunning Runes. I'll fiddle with it anyway.

Refracted Reach needs a rewording, you're right.


EDIT: Additional Thought
Although it doesn't need it, I could see something like Outsider's Lore also giving you expertise when using knowledge rolls about aberrations. Rarely useful, but fun and thematic, especially if you go with dark insights coming into your mind. Or maybe a rune (Strange Whispers?) that lets you spend a charge as a reaction to get advantage on a Knowledge check. A rough approximation of when you run into shrines and can get some insight into things from what the 'dark god' tells you.
Interesting. I'll give it a think. I'd initially decided that the Empress' Heart could just stay as a magic item, but...

Tanuki Tales
2016-07-26, 04:26 PM
Neat homebrew, keep up the good work! :smallsmile:

JeenLeen
2016-07-27, 03:19 PM
Overall, I like the changes. I recommend adding a line to Refracted Reach that states you can use this tendril to carry and use Thieves' Tools from afar, unless you want to leave that option out. Since not a bonus action, seems a good balance of between Arcane Trickster (infinite use) and Assassin (no boost to thief tool use).

Revlid
2016-07-28, 08:36 AM
Alternative version of the Occult Agent to accompany the previous changes. Definitely simplified, probably overpowered, possibly as a result. It's difficult to tell, because it's definitely more powerful than, say, the Thief, but the Thief feels like garbage to me, so either I'm missing something, or... well, this version of the class is basically on-par with the other version by level 20, it's just less flexible and requires more investment in Wisdom. I'll see which people prefer.

Abstracted Lore
Starting at 3rd level, your illicit exploration of the void has warped your already-cunning mind into strange knots, altering your Cunning Action in the following ways.

Warped Step. You may use a bonus action to fold yourself through a slick tear into eldritch space. You instantly disappear and reappear in an unoccupied space you can see, anywhere within your remaining move distance. This reduces your remaining move distance by an equal number of feet, but also offers the benefits of a Disengage action.
Decaying Space. Whenever you use a bonus action to Dash, you may wrinkle and crack distance around you to receive the benefits of a Dodge action until the start of your next turn. You also become unrecognizable to creatures who cannot see through illusions.
Void Gaze. While you are successfully hidden, you receive the benefits of the detect magic spell, as well as darkvision within its radius.


Stolen Runes
At 9th level your brain develops strange lesions and bulges, runes stolen from an alien realm. You can use your action to employ one of these runes, hissing a pilfered syllable in the same manner as a verbal component. You may use your runes a total number of times equal to half your number of Sneak Attack dice (rounded up) + 1. You regain all uses when you complete a short or long rest.

Entropy. You conjure a creature swarm (such as a rat swarm) of challenge rating 1/4 or lower into an unoccupied space within 30 feet. This is actually an intelligent aberration that is friendly to you and obeys your commands. It disappears if killed, or after an hour passes, and can use its action to completely and instantly devour any Medium-sized or smaller corpse with no ill-effects. You can communicate and use its senses as though it were a familiar.
Vacuum. You cast gust of wind. This version of the spell lasts a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier, but forces a saving throw the moment it is first cast, and is guaranteed to extinguish protected light sources. The save DC for this spell is 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier.
Orbit. You adopt an alien gravity for one minute, granting you a climbing speed equal to your walking speed. You do not suffer fall damage, and can move up, down, under and across vertical and horizontal surfaces without using your hands. This effect lasts a number of minutes equal to your Wisdom modifier x 10.


Plundered Moments
Starting at 13th level you can reach out and steal precious seconds from the future, accelerating the ultimate demise of the cosmos. You use this feature on your turn, causing other characters to seem frozen while you act on stolen time, granting you advantage on attack rolls or opposed Ability checks unless they are under the effects of haste or similar time-dilation magic. You also apply two different benefits of your choice during this turn.

You make a single weapon attack.
You use an object.
You use a rune.
You receive an extra bonus action.
You double your move distance.

You may use this feature a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier, minimum one. You regain all uses when you complete a long rest.

Dimensional Jailbreak
Starting at 17th level you may open inky eyes on an entirely alien perspective to cast etherealness. You can’t do so again until you finish a long rest. You may also cast contact other plane as a ritual to contact the forces of the outside, which provokes a saving throw with Wisdom instead of an Intelligence.

Rerem115
2016-07-28, 10:36 AM
Unlimited Misty Step when you disengage is probably a bit much. Also, it feels really weird that you can teleport constantly, at will during combat, but as soon as combat stops, you're stuck to walking like everyone else. Mostly because of that implication, I'd consider changing it to something different; I'm not sure what, quite yet.

As stated earlier, your capstone feels really weak; Thieves get an extra turn, and Assassins get MASSIVE damage, and Arcane Tricksters say "Nope" to mages. The Occult Agent can....cast a spell any nearly any full caster could cast 4 levels ago. Maybe it actually is balanced, it just feels underwhelming. While the more I think about it, the cooler it seems, but the fact remains that full casters could have theoretically been doing this for four levels does take some wind out of its sails.

Revlid
2016-07-28, 12:21 PM
Unlimited Misty Step when you disengage is probably a bit much. Also, it feels really weird that you can teleport constantly, at will during combat, but as soon as combat stops, you're stuck to walking like everyone else. Mostly because of that implication, I'd consider changing it to something different; I'm not sure what, quite yet.You're absolutely right about the execution being janky. I've modified it so that it a) consumes your movement distance, b) is stopped by airtight or warded barriers, c) doesn't specifically key off Disengage, but instead uses a bonus action and offers you the benefits of Disengage.

Essentially, Misty Step is less valuable for Rogues because they can already get its primary benefit – moving somewhere without provoking an opportunity attack or similar response – as a bonus action, and its other benefits (move over dangerous stuff without touching it, bypass locked barriers) is stuff they mundanely specialise, by contrast to Wizards who desperately need it as an escape and utility tool.

If you let a Wizard cast Misty Step, they are using their action to get an extra 30 feet move distance and avoid being shanked for escaping. If you let a Rogue cast Misty Step, they're... using their action to Dash and their bonus action to Disengage, plus a flashy special effect. Context makes it far less valuable.


As stated earlier, your capstone feels really weak; Thieves get an extra turn, and Assassins get MASSIVE damage, and Arcane Tricksters say "Nope" to mages. The Occult Agent can....cast a spell any nearly any full caster could cast 4 levels ago. Maybe it actually is balanced, it just feels underwhelming. While the more I think about it, the cooler it seems, but the fact remains that full casters could have theoretically been doing this for four levels does take some wind out of its sails.
I added Contact Other Plane as a ritual using Wisdom to help add some coolness.

ImperatorV
2016-07-28, 05:15 PM
You could also add in the possession ability in with the capstone, bringing it up to three powers like abstracted lore and stolen runes.

Hypersmith
2017-01-14, 09:49 PM
I was thinking of using this, and was just wondering about secret step outside combat - does it still cost a rune when used outside combat past level 9?

Revlid
2017-01-16, 10:14 PM
I was thinking of using this, and was just wondering about secret step outside combat - does it still cost a rune when used outside combat past level 9?

Latest and much simplified version can be found here (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/r1xc7Mjfl).

Hypersmith
2017-01-20, 10:12 PM
Thank you! This works great for my ideas, really looking forward to level 3!