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View Full Version : How would this sound as a campaign? Clearing a dungeon, and then keeping it.



Traab
2016-07-26, 02:45 PM
Ok, so the basic adventure starts out like this. Your band of brothers has heard of this old underground lair/dungeon/city/ruin type place that is rumored to have all sort of powerful resources to work with. Said area has been a constant battleground as rival factions from all over the landmass have been attempting to claim it for their own. Everything from bandit chiefs, to necromancer lords, to paladin kings to orcish hordes have been fighting over it. In fact, the place is getting kinda structurally dangerous to be in just because noone ever holds it long enough to work with it before the next invasion force arrives. So your party has to move in, take it over, then not only manage to defend it, but also locate and work with the materials present to become more powerful, reinforce this dungeon/mine/ancient lab from time immemorial/whatever so it can hold off attacks, and eventually figure out a way to keep control long term. You can forge alliances with other factions, though of course be careful for betrayal.

I thought it would make for an interesting campaign because it has offense, defense, research, exploration, diplomacy, the whole 9 yards. You can make whatever the powerful resources are inside anything you want from some rare magical ore, to an ancient library of books similar to the cattle driving campaign thread that unlock all sorts of skills abilities and templates. But the goal is to locate and defend it, and keep hold of it all. Even should the worst happen and you have to retreat, you can always come back and try again.

Calen
2016-07-26, 03:06 PM
Sounds like something that I would have fun with.
Use of some solid building / crafting rules would be needed.
And the DM would have to be extra careful about what the players were facing with an eye towards having it used against future fights. (Reuse of traps for example)

Red Fel
2016-07-26, 03:16 PM
It has some great potential, but requires the players to be onboard with the idea that they will be primarily based in one locale.

Now, a great way to make this more functional is to make it expansive. Either have the lair - I'll just call it lair to save time - contain a variety of different zones to explore, or - even better - have it function as a sort of nexus, with various portals and planar rifts and magical pools for things to come in and out. This allows the PCs to sort of play Stargate with it, staying in (and reinforcing, building, upgrading, and inviting settlers or craftsmen to) one area, while traveling to others, each one offering a variety of adventures and benefits.

If you go with the idea of a singular lair with various zones, consider allowing each one to convey advantages to those who can control both the zone and the hub. For example, there could be a Fire-themed zone - say, a portion of the lair built along tunnels into a semi-dormant volcanic caldera - which, if controlled, grants those attuned to the hub certain fire-related powers or benefits.

Alternatively, playing with portals pretty much unlocks every adventure ever. There's a mirror that leads to an alternate reality. There's a golden gateway leading to a trading town at the foot of a literally-heavenly mountain. There's a mysterious lamp that allows the party to travel to a city of genies. There's a person-sized grandfather clock that can transport people through time and back. And through these gates, the PCs can have adventures, recruit allies, acquire resources, etc.

The advantage of having adventures within the lair, as well as defending it from without, is that if you simply say, "Congratulations, you got it, now defend it," the game risks slowing down. Sure, the PCs can harvest lumber and stone in the area to build up the walls, travel to nearby towns and kingdoms to recruit allies and settlers, but the real adventure only comes when the GM announces, "Your lair is under attack!" By having adventures expand from the hub - not just to clear out a single castle or dungeon, but the myriad network of connected complexes near and far - you can pretty much guarantee that the players will be active in protecting and growing their lair, not just passively rolling to collect vespene gas and build more pylons.

Tiktakkat
2016-07-26, 03:32 PM
That was the general reaction of every group I ran on clearing a dungeon for the first 20 years I played this game.
I'm not sure when it went out of style, but it is nice to see it make a return.

Traab
2016-07-26, 04:24 PM
It has some great potential, but requires the players to be onboard with the idea that they will be primarily based in one locale.

Now, a great way to make this more functional is to make it expansive. Either have the lair - I'll just call it lair to save time - contain a variety of different zones to explore, or - even better - have it function as a sort of nexus, with various portals and planar rifts and magical pools for things to come in and out. This allows the PCs to sort of play Stargate with it, staying in (and reinforcing, building, upgrading, and inviting settlers or craftsmen to) one area, while traveling to others, each one offering a variety of adventures and benefits.

If you go with the idea of a singular lair with various zones, consider allowing each one to convey advantages to those who can control both the zone and the hub. For example, there could be a Fire-themed zone - say, a portion of the lair built along tunnels into a semi-dormant volcanic caldera - which, if controlled, grants those attuned to the hub certain fire-related powers or benefits.

Alternatively, playing with portals pretty much unlocks every adventure ever. There's a mirror that leads to an alternate reality. There's a golden gateway leading to a trading town at the foot of a literally-heavenly mountain. There's a mysterious lamp that allows the party to travel to a city of genies. There's a person-sized grandfather clock that can transport people through time and back. And through these gates, the PCs can have adventures, recruit allies, acquire resources, etc.

The advantage of having adventures within the lair, as well as defending it from without, is that if you simply say, "Congratulations, you got it, now defend it," the game risks slowing down. Sure, the PCs can harvest lumber and stone in the area to build up the walls, travel to nearby towns and kingdoms to recruit allies and settlers, but the real adventure only comes when the GM announces, "Your lair is under attack!" By having adventures expand from the hub - not just to clear out a single castle or dungeon, but the myriad network of connected complexes near and far - you can pretty much guarantee that the players will be active in protecting and growing their lair, not just passively rolling to collect vespene gas and build more pylons.

I like the idea of a portal nexus. That would give it even more room for random super awesome things to discover and claim. One of the things I had in mind was, lots of lightning raids early on. They cant risk being away from the main dungeon area for too long, because there is no telling when something big will go down, so the goal will be to get in, get whatever, and get out so you can reinforce your defenses. Last thing they will want is to waste a week farming the land of magic rings only to exit the portal and face a small army of goblins with weapons drawn. Building up traps and passive defenses would be helpful for buying time, forming an alliance would be interesting because it lets you have people watch your back. Something as basic as, "If you guys hold the fort while we explore the demi plane of +2 swords, we will split the proceeds with you when we return" would let you take more care with exploring and finding the best stuff. The longer you hold it, the better equipped you are to KEEP holding it.

Honestly, it would make for a very interesting very sandboxy campaign setting, where as the dm you keep track of things like how many days have passed, which determines who is coming to attack the cave, or how much tougher the people currently holding the cave are now if you get pushed out. After all, if you lose control of the lair, then the bad guys are going to be exploring and claiming stuff now. Take too long to regather your forces and prepare and you will be facing much harder fights.

Waker
2016-07-26, 04:26 PM
This isn't dissimilar to a campaign I wanted to run a few years ago, but I went with a ship instead of a dungeon. Being always on the defensive might get old, but when you have the option to do the raiding? Arrr!

Green Elf
2016-07-26, 04:48 PM
I like the idea but from a person who's been a DM and a PC I say that's great but you need a threat once you're in the fortress. Planned alliances and betrayals would be fun. It would be great if it eventually was a full blown war.

Traab
2016-07-26, 05:13 PM
I like the idea but from a person who's been a DM and a PC I say that's great but you need a threat once you're in the fortress. Planned alliances and betrayals would be fun. It would be great if it eventually was a full blown war.

Oh certainly. Lets say you allied yourself with a group of, I dunno, dwarves or something. You made the arrangement I mentioned earlier of you guard while we forage for loot and we split the proceeds, but they start getting greedy, or jealous that you get first pick even though they are also getting upgrades. So when you come back through the portal you are captured and have to make an escape from the dungeon, at which point you need to make a comeback with some other group. "The dwarves got greedy and betrayed us, perhaps you and your people are more willing to work together so we both can prosper? With our strength added to your own, the elves could easily push out the dwarven claim, thus strengthening your people instead." You could even try, just for amusements sake, your own battle of the 5 armies. See if you can pull it off without then realizing what you are doing till its too late. :smallbiggrin:

Also, there is no reason the enemy forces of various factions cant also be leveled up to match you. I mentioned a necro lords forces, you go from fighting zombies and skeletons to wights and vampires, those bandits have recruited wizards and clerics and other classes of various levels to try and take over your claim, etc etc etc. That way the threat of enemy attacks remains constant even as you level and gear up. And that doesnt even take into account the things you will face through the various portals. Strange how it seems like no matter how much you level up, the next portal you choose is giving level appropriate (or greater) encounters. :smalltongue:

Vitruviansquid
2016-07-26, 05:50 PM
I would come up with a system for dealing with the other factions, dealing with dungeon resources, and making dungeon defenses where everything is quantified instead of DM-fiat'd. If these things aren't gamified, I would feel like what I do with them don't actually matter, because the DM will just pull whatever result he wants out of nowhere.

Diplomacy-wise, I would have some organized chart not only for how each faction feels about the PCs, but how each faction feels about each other, so like a mean girls' clique in middle school, your relationship with one faction is going to impact your relationship with the others. You could also set up factions as liking and hating opposite actions. Each should also have their own modus operandi for how to hurt you and how to assist you. For instance, if the necromancer doesn't like you, he favors sending big waves of mindless minions into your dungeon to attempt to murder you while the elves would engage in sabotaging your attempts to gather resources.

Once the party completes the requisite exploration to see what resources they can take out of the dungeon, have that be their only source of magic items, money, or whatever else, but also find ways to make the resources not usable at every interval. Maybe the portals randomly turn on and off at in-game time intervals by die roll.

TheYell
2016-07-26, 06:42 PM
Yes have the background politics worked out in advance.

Ever play the old Mechwarrior pc game? you could sail around the galaxy taking contracts from various houses. but if you took too many you got blacklisted. it was always a waste working for house liao because EVERYBODY hated house liao.

Have each faction have two or three cherished artifacts in the hoard the way Thrain wanted the Arkenstone. Find all of them and that faction loses interest in letting you own the dungeon-- it might as well be abandoned and sealed. Dont find any and alienate that faction -- you're in their way! It would be interesting if getting them together was very dangerous for the peace of the world. Some factions will dicker for your party to not find the other teams prizes. Really devious factions will buy your help stealing the prize as its transferred to another faction and refusing is a rebuff.

You could have a truce at moonrise on Mondays to come to the entrance of the cave and dicker with emissaries. the rest of the time could be exploring and ignoring the politics.

Red Fel
2016-07-26, 07:19 PM
I like the idea of a portal nexus. That would give it even more room for random super awesome things to discover and claim. One of the things I had in mind was, lots of lightning raids early on. They cant risk being away from the main dungeon area for too long, because there is no telling when something big will go down, so the goal will be to get in, get whatever, and get out so you can reinforce your defenses. Last thing they will want is to waste a week farming the land of magic rings only to exit the portal and face a small army of goblins with weapons drawn. Building up traps and passive defenses would be helpful for buying time, forming an alliance would be interesting because it lets you have people watch your back. Something as basic as, "If you guys hold the fort while we explore the demi plane of +2 swords, we will split the proceeds with you when we return" would let you take more care with exploring and finding the best stuff. The longer you hold it, the better equipped you are to KEEP holding it.

Honestly, it would make for a very interesting very sandboxy campaign setting, where as the dm you keep track of things like how many days have passed, which determines who is coming to attack the cave, or how much tougher the people currently holding the cave are now if you get pushed out. After all, if you lose control of the lair, then the bad guys are going to be exploring and claiming stuff now. Take too long to regather your forces and prepare and you will be facing much harder fights.

For some inspiration, I recommend seeing the 1987 horror-comedy film House II: The Second Story. (The first one was ostensibly also horror-comedy, but not as funny and not quite as relevant.) The basic premise is that the house in which the protagonists are staying is actually an ancient temple, with gateways across space and time. This results in assorted wacky hijinks, up to and including the appearance of John Ratzenberger (yes, from Cheers), an electrician who comes in to work on their wiring and informs them, "Looks like you've got some kind of alternate universe in there or something." (For goodness' sake, consider his character, Bill, an inspiration for recurring allied NPCs. His brief appearance in the film is hysterical.)

That's the general idea, although you might go with something a bit more awe-inspiring than some old house. The doors swing both ways, meaning that anything that can be accessed can also reach in. Thus, while the PCs can ostensibly visit anyplace connected to their lair - and not all portals are (or should be) obvious - those places can also bleed over into the lair (unless they find a way to seal them). So it's a combination of offense (hooray, adventure!) and defense (get out of my house!).