[3.5] My players wanted a boss battle, so need 2 builds

[zyggythorn]

A bit of context: last session, my players went on a dungeon crawl through the catacombs of a city. At what they thought would be a boss room, there was a social encounter with a beholder mage, that could have easily killed (and I expected them to) but wisely did not (more on that in a bit)

Party currently is:

HUMAN PF spell-less Ranger, with a totally not stegosaurus for his companion
HUMAN Paladin of Heironeus with a Sunblade/Holy Avenger (made by the aforementioned beholder mage)
ELF Rogue/Spellthief/Vigilante
HUMAN Monk/Rogue/Shadowdancer
HUMAN Cleric of Pelor (Good/healing domains- first time player)
GNOME Sorceress/Rogue/Spell warp Sniper
WARFORGED Duskblade (first time player)

All level 7 (or eight, by the time this encounter begins)

Im a big fan of Dark Mirror enemies, where they end up being similar to the party, but evil, so Ive got something for the Smashy members, but need one for the spec and Cleric, and for the rogue and Monk.
PF material is generally discouraged, but allowed.

In short, I'm looking for a rough build using the following:
A low-op build using
Half Elf CE Rogue3/Bard (harbinger)2/Assassin X/Monk of the long death Y
Bow focused
Vile feats encouraged

And a low op Cleric build using:
(Unknown race- non Dwarf is a must) NE


Both at lv 14 (or 15).

Any ideas?

Again, I am confident that the party can take them down, or atleast force a parley.

[Inevitability]

I strongly suggest using more NPC's of a lower level. A 15th-level cleric or rogue, even when unoptimized, can and will wipe the floor with some lower-level PC's.

[zyggythorn]

Considering that in addition to a 7-man party, they have 2-3x WBL, in addition to terrain advantages, allies who will help them in a mundane fashion, enemies willing to help because of evil v oblivion, and are unknowingly working for a Zeitgeist (masquerading as an urban druid), I'm quite certain the party will kill one or two, and buy off the third.

My only question is with regards to clerics, seeing as I lack much experience with them (beyond the standard CC dip)

[Inevitability]

Considering that in addition to a 7-man party, they have 2-3x WBL, in addition to terrain advantages, allies who will help them in a mundane fashion, enemies willing to help because of evil v oblivion, and are unknowingly working for a Zeitgeist (masquerading as an urban druid), I'm quite certain the party will kill one or two, and buy off the third.

My only question is with regards to clerics, seeing as I lack much experience with them (beyond the standard CC dip)

I guess it depends how clever you're playing them, but there's nothing to stop the cleric from summoning a bunch of babaus who teleport to the party before a fight has even started, or casting Blasphemy to paralyze the entire party (no save) for 1d10 minutes.

[barakaka]

Working on the cleric now, but I'll have to finish it tomorrow, here's a quick rundown.

Azurin - Cleric 4/Incarnate 1/Master of Shrouds 10.

The incarnate dip is for the +2 base will save and for another weak defense. If you're willing to be pigeonholed into casting evil and neutral spells, then the Azurin Cleric racial substitution is great to provide extra essentia. Essentia Helms also help in keeping you maxed out for 3 rounds. With only 3 essentia in a Spellward Shirt, you have 17 spell resistance.

Divine Metamagic for Persist Spell to keep more defenses up, and summon dread wraiths every round that she remains alive. Every round they get of prep time, more dread wraiths.

Let me know if you're against summoning :smalltongue:.

There's also Cleric 4/Ordained Champ X/Tenebrous Apostate Y
(ignoring the worship of Hextor requirement of Ordained Champ)

You could do a Harm focused cleric, although that is generally much worse than anything else you could do.

And lastly, you could go full blaster, Divine Metamagic doesn't need to just fuel Persist Spell, and a bunch of cleric spells ignore/partly-bypass resistances :smallcool:.

Edit:
If multiple dread wraiths are too much, you can just have the cleric summon one, sit back and enjoy the show. Heck, if I could summon scythe-wielding-ghost-maniacs, I'd be cocky for sure! They kill one, just summon another!

[fishyfishyfishy]

Even giving each PC an effective +1 ECL to calculate the encounter difficulty due to the items you mention, 2 CR 15's is still an overpowering encounter for 7 level 8 characters. Without that it would outright impossible.

I highly recommend you instead use one or two lower CR threats with plenty of even lower minions to supplement the fight. A Single CR 9 Cleric, with 1 Bone Devil and 5 Bearded Devils is a very difficult encounter with a variety of enemies to fight.

[zyggythorn]

I am against minion-mancy on principle, simply because of book keeping, and combat time with a group of this size.

Ordained Champ looks about what I'm looking for- LE, war obsessed, not caster focused- and this Cleric is... Not smart. Thinking around 6 or 7 int for him. Honestly, Gump stats for that one- low int, phenomenal Wis and Cha.

I actually found what I needed to make the rogue work, btw- so no need there.

[Thurbane]

If you're set on using a level 14 or 15 Cleric build, I'd recommend throwing some 1/2 casting progression PrC in there, maybe Warpriest or Entropomancer.

Would you consider a Swordsage for the other build?

[zyggythorn]

Since I've been at work (at writing this during my breaks) let me note what the party has for certain:

2 mildly powergamed melee characters
--Paladin has become disgustingly Cha SAD, and has been given the aforementioned Sunblade/holy Avenger, and PF spell-less ranger, taking urban as a favored terrain- Throwing style, with axes. Unknowingly using an Axe the Erlking had stashed away with lots of nice things on it, and his AnC- Stegosaurus refluffed as a really big turtle, with mineral warrior template (it's a really nice axe)
1 SA bow rogue with numerous melee options, and an affinity for poison, and an overly excitable suit of leaf armor (who will attempt to intimidate, poorly)
1 Monk with an artifact level cloak that gives her Sun School and Raptor School as bonus feats, in addition to 2 Mastery Feats every 5 lvs (she chose empty hand mastery and foot and Fist Mastery), and 2/day DDoor
1 Sorceress who likes alchemy, and has a bandolier of grenades, oils, etc- plus her bat familiar who can and will drop that on enemies (as in the whole bandolier, if needed)
1 Cleric, who has become very good at the game very quickly
1 warforged who has help from the Ranger in build and rules (ie, took knowledge Devotion)
1 NPC urban druid (lv16) with a history with the Evil rogue, and is secretly a Zeitgeist (CityScape p138 for info) who will reveal himself if needed
2 war hounds, experimented upon at their masters request (given paraelemental magma and smoke templates, respectively)
1 NPC Gladiator who needs something to begin his rebellion (is NG, to clarify)

Against:

1 Easily persuaded lv15 LN dragonrider and his CR 15 ally (fang dragon) who will join him
1 Power grubbing Divine caster (lv15, LE or NE), fairly easily scared away
1 Nihilistic, solipsistic, fanatically CE rogue assassin, who- while intelligent- does not make good life decisions. Likes killing and harming others, because it is proof 'that I was there'

Things begin to turn in the parties' favor fairly quickly.

The only enemy they will not be able to convince to walk away is the rogue- and that's simply because he's about to bomb the equivalent of the Olympic games for kicks and gigs (also because he wants to destabilize the host nation)

[barakaka]

Forgive me for poor formatting, and if I got something wrong. It's a pretty basic Ordained Champion though. Not everything is fleshed out because I'm kinda tired and you should have room for more taste anyway.

Flavour/Power Modifications

Most of this comes straight from PHB because most broken stuff is there. If he's still not good enough in melee, pull a level of cleric and add a level of warblade. (The book Tome of Battle is not broken! Friends don't let friends ban ToB) Divine Power should push him all the way though.

I left the race ambiguous, although my suggestion is kenku or zero levels in the Drow savage progression. This guy needs to be super edgy.
Law and War are required domains if you're sticking with the base flavour of Ordained Champ, which is to worship Hextor. Same with the flail. If you're cool with swapping your god, by all means worship Set, who has favoured weapon shortspear. This means you can take the flail out for Rapid Wrath, found in Ghostwalk Campaign Setting which doubles your movement speed :smallcool:.

Spellstoring weapon enhancement, and the spellglyph spell allow for stacking more effects on your attacks. These coupled with the smites you get from spending turn undead, means when he hits them, they stay hit.


All caps means that you should channel the spell for a really awesome/dumb effect.

The Build:

Neutral-Evil Cleric 12/Ordained Champ 3

12d8 + 3d8 + 2/HD = 97
HP: 97

STR: 12
DEX: 10
CON: 14
INT: 8
WIS: 16 +4
CHA: 17

BAB: 12
Init: 0

Fort: 13
Ref: 5
Will: 16

Feats:
1) Weapon Focus: Flail
3) Persist Spell
6) Divine Metamagic
9) Quicken Spell
12) Still Spell
15) ??

Skills:
Concentration: 5
Knowledge (religion): 10
Spellcraft: 3

Items:
Nightstick
+1 Adamantine Fullplate
+1 Collision, Valorous Flail
Cloak of Resistance +5
Ring of Protection +3
Periapt of Wisdom +4
Third Eye Clarity
Metamagic Rod of Empower

Domains: Law, War, Fire (extra 3+CHA turns)

Spells:
greater Magic Weapon
greater magic Vestment
bestow curse
divine power
freedom of movement
flame strike
death ward
HARM
GEAS/QUEST

Domain Spells:
WALL OF FIRE (2d6+cl per round, no save)
hold monster


EDIT:
Anybody who is anybody uses one of these babies:


310gp alchemy blade (Magic of Eberron p138)
300gp masterwork
2500gp to be made of alchemical gold (Magic of Faerun p179)
450gp triple capsule (Complete Adventurer p120)
100gp <quickflame,quickfrost,ghostblight (all found in Complete Adventurer p122), 1 alchemist's fire (PHB)>


Total= 3660gp

Wanna trick it out? Find an Alchemist Savant (Magic of Eberron p54) to make a spellvial with a mixed poison and a maxed out explosive pack (Secrets of Sarlona p. 138).

[zyggythorn]

Snip


Actually, at the end of next session, I'm officially opening up ToB and ToM for the players (and allowing retraining, if they so wish), so having a warblade dip on the Cleric is a very good idea.

Notes and marked the build, a minor loot change here or there, but just about perfect.

Thanks Playground!

(Yes, I opened BoED and BoVD before the Tomes)