OOTS #306 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Blaznak]

Now THAT is what I've been waiting for. A V strip! Hooray!

Oh, loved the logic behind Spell Books, BTW. I've run wizzies for ever and never understood all of the logic behind it. Oh, wait, its fantasy! Of course it makes sense! :)

[JustyUekiTylor]

At last we see what V has been scribing. Gv gv gv gv gv gv gv. Gotta love the laws of magic.

[Trinak]

Great strip Giant.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Awesome. Spellbooks are the worst proud nail in D&D, you know. Reminds me of first edition...

Oh, and first page!

[Alternator]

Edit:

Fifth post, huzzah! I made the first page!

[TheJet31619]

Vaarsuvius finally has a comic to himself! YAY!

First page!

[Frojoe21]

One word. Poor V, he can't ever get a break. Though I do beleive Miko does still owe him/her that gold from those spells he/she cast so it really wouldn't set him/her back too much

[The_Blue_Sorceress]

Superb comic as always. I do so love the way you point out the logical inconsistancies between the rules (which in this case are just issues of game balance, I think) and the roleplaying experience.

-Blue

[ref]

but it was one word! ONE! WORD! Poor Vaarsuvius...
These laws of magic are rough...

Also: First page! woot! hehe... couldn't resist.

[Arakus]

Hilarious, sir :) It's a wonder we put up with that kind of nonsense in our games ;)

[n11]

I've always wanted to rewrite some of these "rules of magic" as a DM.

[Annalia]

That was SO good. I'm still panting with it. To say I read those rule recently again. Must makes it even funnier.

[JustyUekiTylor]

I've always wanted to rewrite some of these "rules of magic" as a DM.

As the DM, it is your perogative to re-write the rules as needs be/you see fit (I dare say most of us who game have house rules of various sorts). Even if you aren't the DM, you should be able to talk a good DM into reasonable changes that make things more sensible and/or fun.

[SumGuy]

Wow...they called V a "him"...

You're just fueling the continuing debate, Rich ;D


Edit: Hoody Hoo! First Page, at long last!!

[Gmmaster42]

Great comic Giant! Wow... the laws of magic don't like Vaarsuvious very much, and they refered to him/her as a HE.

WOOT! 1st post!

[AdInfinitum]

I've had this exact same conversation before...

Was this one TSR's screw-up or Wizards?

[Julia]

Poor, poor, Vaarsuvius.

[Alexin]

BLIND

[DrewDaGreek]

He?? Is this a potential misconception of the NPCs, or a revelation of the gender of V?

[Delemental]

Darn, I was hoping I could zoom in on V's spellbook and find out what the actual Power Word was... :)

Great comic. Loved the spoof of scribing rules.

[KingMerv00]

In the last frame they call V a "him". Does that mean he isn't androgenous anymore?

Maybe I'm just dumb and didn't know that he was male all along.

First time poster...first page.

Edit: Drat, second page and someone else notice the "he" thing before me. :(

[Reptile]

If they're waiting for V to sleep it off, they might be waiting for a while. After all, technically, V does not sleep. (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=16) :)

(Also, both of the other wizards perceived V as male. I would have expected something like Nale/Sabine, where each one uses a different pronoun. I expect this to cause much pointless argument in the V's Gender Debate thread. :) )

EDIT:

In the last frame they call V a "him". Does that mean he isn't androgenous anymore?

Maybe I'm just dumb and didn't know that he was male all along.

First time poster...first page.

Edit: Drat, second page and someone else notice the "he" thing before me. :(

Well, both of you posted while I was typing, so you're not alone. It's like this the first minutes after a new comic.

In answer to (both of) your questions, ever since V was first referred to as "V-Man" in #9 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=9), Rich has repeatedly stated that other characters' lines simply reflect their perception of V's gender, not necessarily the reality. I above referred to Nale and Sabine; this was in #252 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=252), where Nale refers to V as "the elf chick" and Sabine says "the elf dude."

[Holy_Knight]

It's always nice to see Vaarsuvius justifiably going hysterical over absurdities. His usual calm, methodical nature makes his rants all the funnier!

Also, I really got a kick out of the wizards' pointy hats. For some reason, they make me laugh. :)

[Ted_Stryker]

ONE! WORD! ;D

This does bring up the obvious question, are only the verbal components of a spell scribed into a spellbook, or are there attendant... meditative exercizes and/or magic theory involved as well? All the spells that have standard action casting times, are you really belting out N pages of verbal components when you cast that Nth level spell?

[Winged One]

Hilarious. I second the question: was this TSR's fault or WotC's?

I always assumed it was magical theory that took up all of the pages.

[Bozidar]

New comic is up.
Nice, classic poke at some of the silly rules of the game ;D

[Gleanerizer]

Also, I really got a kick out of the wizards' pointy hats. For some reason, they make me laugh. :)
Me too, mainly because they are small enough to look like party hats. :)

Wizard party

wizard party

What time is it?

WIZARD PARTY TIME

[Devoured_Dude]

If memory serves, V doesn't need that spell. According to a guest cartoonist, V just needs to disrobe and the looker will try to blast his own eyes out. Poor beholder...

[Serina_Spellbinder]

Greatness!!

I laughed until I cried. ;D

"ONE! WORD!"

[n11]

As the DM, it is your perogative to re-write the rules as needs be/you see fit (I dare say most of us who game have house rules of various sorts). Even if you aren't the DM, you should be able to talk a good DM into reasonable changes that make things more sensible and/or fun.

I already modify the scribing rules, but there are major things I would like to overhaul which I just don't have the time to do. Some spells (in my opinion) become way to powerful for their spell level as casters increase in level. (A magic missile released by a ninth level caster does more damage than a fireball from fifth level caster (because of the reflex save), damage from these spells should increase by level as the cure spells, and the spells should be available in many gradations of levels (also like the cure spells, summon spells, and phantasmal image spells).

All right. That's enough ranting at the magic system. I'm sure about three pages of responses have been added to this thread while I was whining.

Oooh, if V is scribing 7th level spells, could that be... (dun, dun, dun) V is 13th level (or higher)?

[tomaO2]

Actually, I can't help but feel it would have been more humorous if they had let V try and stuff more spells into the book to see what would happen.

Why does she seem so shocked anyway? This can't be a new development. She knows the magic rules as well as the court mages do.

[Fillbert]

If my memory serves me right, wasn't it all about spell slots back in 2nd ed. 1st level spell 1 slot, 2nd level 2 slots etc.. slots = pages.... again my memory could be off.

Also, wouldn't the somatic and material components of a spell be listed as well?

And woot 2nd page
edit: make that 3rd page

[TB]

ONE! WORD! ;D

This does bring up the obvious question, are only the verbal components of a spell scribed into a spellbook, or are there attendant... meditative exercizes and/or magic theory involved as well? All the spells that have standard action casting times, are you really belting out N pages of verbal components when you cast that Nth level spell?
Verbal components, proper posture, any other actions, ...

Plus you need the name and a short description to help you remember what it does...

Plus ever since that time someone used "fireball" to clear a hornet's nest from a townhome in the middle of the worst drought of the century, there's been a requirement that a long, detailed warning/disclaimer text be included. It's also required that this be read thoroughly during spell preparation, although nobody actually does this.

[Drumbum42]

GGGAAA!!!! The V question continues!!! I'm so confused!!

[Leo_Forestclaw]

Thank you Rich. THIS, I say *this,* in all my years of playing D&D is why I haven never *ever* played a wizard.

Also, several LOL moments.

V may have moved up the "favorite character" roster based on this comic.

[Baloo]

I don't have a problem with the rule. The whole rationale behind spell preparation in D&D is that you spend a lot of time (one hour per day) "pre-casting" your spells, leaving them almost finished. Then, when you actually cast the spells, you only have to say a few words (or one word, in the case of power words), wiggle your fingers, and grab some bat guano and BOOM, there's your fireball.

That doesn't make the comic any less funny, though.

Also, it seems the party has now hit 13th level, since V is scribing 7th level spells.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Hooray! Rules joke with no moral quandary!

Only pedantry.

Yay.

[androgial]

finaly some one else has the similar problems i encounter, just why do you need "special" ink to write the spell description and notations in your spell book, why can you only scribe one spell a day

lovely comic

[Methuselah_Amakiir]

Heh. I remember trying to scribe a Time Stop from an undead arcanist's spellbook, and not having enough pages open... And for some reason, I wasn't able to take the book out of the tomb... oh well, enough of my failed attempts at getting awesome spells.

Great strip, Rich!

[kamikasei]

Can it be that I really was the only one expecting the single word to be seven pages long? It'd be a real twist of the knife for V to find that her shiny new Power Word: Blind had an attendant sleep (http://giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=10) effect.

[Holy_Knight]

If memory serves, V doesn't need that spell. According to a guest cartoonist, V just needs to disrobe and the looker will try to blast his own eyes out. Poor beholder...


Although I wouldn't act as extremely, I'm with the beholder on this one. V did look really freaking disturbing in that guest strip. :o

[Tawkis]

I personally wonder how V will ever be able to cast a single word spell.

[tgva8889]

That is really hilarious. A single word spell, taking up 7 pages...and only being able to write in a single spell per day...so funny...gah!

[yuccadude]

What I like best about this comic, other than the hilarious jokes, was the fact that all of the bookcases and books are various shades of blue...I think that may be carrying the color scheme too far. What would happen if they got a book that didn't have a blue binding? Would they put a cover on it, or have it rebound? That is my question...

[Wolf_In_Exile]

Lol. that's why I stick w/ fighters and the like.Clerics are nice too.

I always hated it when my friend who is always a wizard runs by all the spell rules and I can't tell if he's cheating or not,

[Whamme]

While comic was, as ever, amusing...

I always thought spellbooks were about notes, diagrams, mantras, and other assorted bits of info tossed in to get you in the right frame of mind.

You don't just have to write out the spell... you have to make notes on how YOU can cast the spell - what works, what doesn't, etc.

[ekedolphin]

Sue Likes Blue! What will we do with Sue?

Funny comic. V's about to go even crazier than s/he is already, heehee.

[kamikasei]

I personally wonder how V will ever be able to cast a single word spell.
Host: Now, Miss Elf - Vaarsuvius - you have a new spell you'd like to cast.
V: Could I just say, Chris, for one moment that I have a new spell I'd like to cast?
Host: Er... exactly. What is it?
V: Where?
Host: No, no, no. What is your spell?
V: Oh, what is my spell?
Host: Yes.
V: Oh what is my spell, that it is. Yes, well you may well ask, what is my spell.
Host: (slightly impatient) I am asking.
V: And well you may. Yes my word you may well ask what it is, this spell of mine. Well, this spell that I wish to cast - that is to say, which I will cast - ...will be cast by me.
Host: (more impatient) I know it will. What is it?
V: Where? Oh, what is my spell?
Host: Yes!
V: Oh, my spell that I shall cast follows the lines I am about to relate. (Coughs) Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem.
Host: Oh God.
V: Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. Ahem. [Impatient noises from Host] The Spell, by Vaarsuvius. That's V for Vaarsuvius, it's not by a volcano.
Host: Right....
V: This spell which I have researched is as follows. Ahem. Ahem. This is how it goes. Ahem. The next thing that I am about to say is my spell. Ahem. Ready?
(Host moans)
V: The Spell by Vaarsuvius brackets Miss brackets. My spell is along the following lines.
Host: Oh God.
V: [Power Word: Blind] (http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Scripts/MissAnneElk)

[Theodoxus]

Power Word spells don't have somantic or material components though... which is why V is so preturbed. I could understand putting down 7 pages of detailed descriptions of how to make Physics sit down and shut up, but we're talking about a single word that magically annihilates the optic nerve of the intended target. (or some such.)

I think it would of been funny if the magic of the spell forced V to write the word in size 144 font, and hence taking up 7 pages of the spellbook.

In my games, I don't worry about spellbooks, and everyone pretty much gets eschew materials for free - uber realism might be fun for some, but I find it a major drag on a game that already bogs down for combat. I suppose the people who are persnikety about spellbook pages and common spell componets are the same who make sure you eat everyday - ticking off your rations, keep journals of ammunition expenditure, allow for in game potty breaks and chart the Paladins alignment in minute detail. /bleh.

D&D is fun, but somethings just gotta go... House rulez!

Theo

[Vaarsuvius_Prime]

And now each one of oots have a personal strip.

[Bilbo27]

ONE WORD!!!


PRICELESS!!

Did that take 7 pages to write?

[Melnor]

haha, great comic, Giant! I love making fun of D&D rules ;D
But seriously, the elf is a GUY? Darn....I'd have lost money if I'd actually bet on 'his' gender...

[Gunslinger47]

The answer is obvious.

Obviously, Vaarsuvius is a transexual character who is played by a transgamer. ;D

[CockroachTeaParty]

Psionics are better than arcane magic. I rest my case with this strip. ;D

Of course.... we now have to deal with... elemental... stewards...

"Would you like a bag of peanuts, hailing from the Clockwork Nirvana of Mechanus?"

"NO! Can I get my psicrystal back? MAKE IT STOP!!"

"Remember, master, when joining an astral caravan to make sure that your tray table is up and your seat back is in the full upright position."

"AAAaarrrgh... *cough*.... Illithid heritage..." *dies*

[Railith]

I always wondered about the various limitations of power words. I mean it's not a complex arcane chant, it's saying stuff like "blind" or "die" just really loud.

I still think V is a girl.

[AzSteven]

Gah - I just had this exact same discussion/argument with the magic using PC in the party I GM for. Dang it, I shoulda copyrighted that whole discussion!
:D


Very funny, and timely as all get-out; I am mailing the link to my magely friend even now...

[infiniteviking]

*dies ded*

*regenerates* *cough -- wheeze -- rereads*

"Are we giving the word its personal space?"

*dies again*

This must be the first time Vaarsuvius has had a strip to himself since the Potions Shop incident. Game physics... no wonder he hasn't mastered the laws of reality yet. "If you had, there would have been a few hundred blank pages at the end"? Gvgvgvgvgvgv! This is why V's my favorite character. So pragmatic, so sarcastic, so studious and powerful and infinitely self-assured.... YAY V! ;D ;D ;D

Er... for some reason his hair and cape are mostly gray, with only patches of their usual colors, and the headband is orange instead of yellow. Did he spill the ink, or is it a lighting effect or just my recaltricant computer? And if he's only been transcribing spells for 'a few days', does that mean he only transcribed a few spells?

Fantastic comic, Giant. Thankyouthankyouthankyou. You've made my evening.

Edit: The 'he' proves nothing -- it's consistent with the established inconsistency of V's perceived character. I use the pronoun because it's convenient.

[nosajtpno]

Gee, I always thought the Power Words were just really.... really... really long.



And wizards were really fast talkers.

[Kaerou]

*giggles* One of the best comics of all, i love it! Great work Rich!

[metalphil]

Hahaha! Awesome! Definitely a classic. A good, old-fashioned D&D absurdity joke!

Wait.. these are ALL D&D absurdity jokes! Haha :D

[Dwalin]

Okay, this is my first post. (woot)

I am the kind of guy who micromanages every detail of the game which is why I tend to prefer playing in forums far above playing in person, or at least DMing that way. The reason spells take up so much space is because of the vast amounts of preperation needed. Also, when it comes to a spell like power word: blind, one thing to keep in mind is that when they say Power word, they mean Power Word. It's not just the word blind or die, It is the very word spoken by the divine entities. This is the kind of thing that if they were to simply think about it without having properly prepared ahead of time they would inadvertantly affect themselves. Reading the word would lead to the effect, thus requiring a very round about means of allowing the spellcaster to essentially rediscover the word each time they have prepared themselves properly. Additionaly the words are extensively long, actually taking about four seconds to say (note the casting time is a standard action in a six second round, how long of a word would that have to be in order to cause you to need that long to simply say.). *sigh* okay, all done. If anyone wants to try and contradict something I mentioned I'd like to see them try (and that's not me being egotistical, I am actually curious where there might be an error).

Thank you for listening to my rant

Edit: just realized I forgot to mention, still a very funny comic, I'm just the guy who always plays as a wizard so I got kinda tweeked.

[Evik]

OMG THAT was Flipping FANTABULOUS!!!!

Oh man i was laughing sooo hard! AWESOME!!!


WAY to GO GIANT!

awww yeah!
:D

[Aiani]

V is so cool. He is definitely one of my favorite characters because of strips like this one. It's always nice to see him go all crazy on someone because he is thinking about something the way that we would think about it in real life while all of the NPCs they come accross seem to think that the game rules make perfect sense.

[Saithis Bladewing]

Woot, more gender pronouns to fuel the V's Gender debate. ;D

Great comic!!!

[idksocrates]

Okay, this is my first post. (woot)

The reason spells take up so much space is because of the vast amounts of preperation needed. Also, when it comes to a spell like power word: blind, one thing to keep in mind is that when they say Power word, they mean Power Word. It's not just the word blind or die, It is the very word spoken by the divine entities. This is the kind of thing that if they were to simply think about it without having properly prepared ahead of time they would inadvertantly affect themselves. Reading the word would lead to the effect, thus requiring a very round about means of allowing the spellcaster to essentially rediscover the word each time they have prepared themselves properly. Additionaly the words are extensively long, actually taking about four seconds to say (note the casting time is a standard action in a six second round, how long of a word would that have to be in order to cause you to need that long to simply say.).

I can definately see that, and that's how I would justify it in my game.

But that's not funny ;)

[silveraxe]

5 pages of posts.
2 posts from people who actually understand the rules. *sigh*

[humanpylon]

I personally wonder how V will ever be able to cast a single word spell.

*giggle*

By the way I guess this means V is done helping Celia shop. Wonder what she eventually picked out.

[Vargtass]

Well, it also explains where V found the time to go shopping, instead of hogging spells in the library...

[Saithis Bladewing]

5 pages of posts.
2 posts from people who actually understand the rules. *sigh*


The Giant is known for bending the rules to make the comic funny. This is just a perfect example of what's happening: he changed the rules to create a hilarious situation for V to complain about!

[Aranth]

Plus, it takes either a fair interest in the fluff of the rules for wizard casting to really understand the excuses behind these particular rules...

...and we all know just how interested V is in non-power-related things. Who forgot to put a gender on his/her character sheet again? :p

[Ikelberg]

Man... laws of magic in standard DnD... wow! I'm so glad that me and my group of friends completely dumbed up laws like that. I don't know what I'd do if I had to play like that... I'd probably go as insane (at least as I see it) as V HERself!

[Castamir]

It may be just a single word, but as it's a 7th level spell, it is insanely tricky to say. Thus, the rest of the seven pages discussed how you have to pronounce it, how to lay the accent, stress and what not. And, these details are all important.

[koumdros]

Great, just Great!

it reminds me of the frustration all the reasonable players in our gaming groups over the years have experienced over the silly D&D speell rules :p

[Terrafire]

um.... Rotfl.

[koumdros]

oh and all these silly D&D spell rules were based on the unyieldy magic ideas of a series of fantasy books by jack vance IIRC. Circa 1960+ ?

Mediocre books, lukewarm magic theory idea that sort of worked in a specific milieu but was crappy in a game, and ytet it seems that;s what Gygax had read around the time he had to design the D&D magic rules.... and so we got saddled with lots of silly thingies..

[Sebastian]

Superb comic as always. I do so love the way you point out the logical inconsistancies between the rules (which in this case are just issues of game balance, I think) and the roleplaying experience.

-Blue
What logical inconsistencies? if Power Word was just a single word don't you think you should be able to say it again and again and again rather than being limited by your seven level slots? the eight pages in the book describe the correct procedure a wizard must follow to "Prepare" the energies that will be released by the Word.

I never understand what people are talking about when they rant about D&D magic system flaws, as magic system goes D&D is one of the best and more consistent, right up with that of Ars Magica. Well, AD&D at least, 3rd edition was dumbed down too much for my taste, but it is still good.

[Terrafire]

This does bring up the obvious question, are only the verbal components of a spell scribed into a spellbook, or are there attendant... meditative exercizes and/or magic theory involved as well? All the spells that have standard action casting times, are you really belting out N pages of verbal components when you cast that Nth level spell?


Point made. You're right. O_O

If a third level spell has three pages of verbal components, I don't see him saying 3 pages in six seconds. O_O

Hell, even a level one spell in six seconds.

[The Glitter Ninja]

Ah, great strip! I never played D&D magic rules so I can only imagine how frustrating they are. Also, fueling the debate over V's gender is a nice touch. I think it's 2 hims to 1 her, for those at home keeping score.

[Saithis Bladewing]

Ah, great strip! I never played D&D magic rules so I can only imagine how frustrating they are. Also, fueling the debate over V's gender is a nice touch. I think it's 2 hims to 1 her, for those at home keeping score.


I've counted at least 2 cases of members in the strip referring to V as a her... The potion shop in the little village and the conversation Nale and Sabine had.

Never bothered counting male references. All I can remember is this one and several instances early on (such as "V-man..."

[emschwar]

I hate to be the fly in the ointment, but V has been scribing spells for several days now, as per the first panel (not to mention several decades, at least, before that). So why exactly is she upset about having to wait a day? This ought to be old hat. Sure, it's annoying, but I'd think by now his reaction should be more "Oy vey, and for this I wasted a whole day of scribing?" and less "ZOMG ONE WORD!!!1111oneoneone!!1eleventyone!"

It's the sort of obvious thing that makes me sure I'm missing something.

[Terrafire]

yup. O_O

you missed the fact that unlike other spells, by no stretch of the imagination does ONE WORD! take up an entire day to write.

[emschwar]

But it's still a spell. And V has enough levels to know by now that he can scribe one spell, per day, regardless of length. I'll buy that it's even more annoying than usual due to the egregiously short spell, but c'mon, it's not as if this is the first time she's ever copied a spell!

[Ravens_Wing]

One Word! lol

That is Awsome....

Great Strip ;D

[Albion]

First off - gvgvgvgvgv... ;D Losing her marbles, arms in the air. When you fuel V up, she's a show to behold. Nicest one in a little while, and that's saying a lot. Aiani already expressed it better than I could on page 5.

Secundo, OMG OMG OMG! (<-- As they're prone to react to anything in America at least according to TV...) "him!" :o I suppose they're just guessing, but they don't that often care to guess. Maybe the wizard system is all patriarchal in Azure City. ??? I doubt it. V was just acting more male at the moment? Perhaps.

...yahoo!
Oh oh, and I've NEVER seen her give up and go "sob..." like that before - V was remarkably calm once back from lizard form. A couple of disintegrates is probably enough to let off steam.

[Aawill]

Awwwwwwwwww..... how cute does V look, freaking out like that! ;D His/her face in the last panel is priceless!!! Poor Vaarsuvius... really it's a shame to make such a sweet thing cry! ;)
..............awesome! ;D


If memory serves, V doesn't need that spell. According to a guest cartoonist, V just needs to disrobe and the looker will try to blast his own eyes out. Poor beholder...


Totally agree! ;D ;D ;D

[battleburn]

Point made. You're right. O_O

If a third level spell has three pages of verbal components, I don't see him saying 3 pages in six seconds. O_O

Hell, even a level one spell in six seconds.


V goes on and on about studying for decades learning how to control the very fabrics of the universe. Now she has the chance to learn new stuf. So what do you do, it takes a day to learn the theory behind a spell and write it down in your own spellbook along with the preparations.
You don't say 7 pages in 6 seconds. But you have to prepare at least 2 pages in the morning of the day so that you can finish with the one keyword and blast your opponents, in all your mercy, to oblivion. I think you have to write really small if you want to write all that down in 7 pages.

[Jawsh]

I didn't see today's comic as any kind of comment on the complexity or inconsistency of existing magic rules, but rather the way in which gamers and (especially) GMs tend to interpret things without thinking them through or reading them clearly. It's evident that the NPCs in the world of the OotS make use of house-rules (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=49), "broken" or misunderstood rules combos (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=216), other unintended humorous interpretations of D&D rules, or quirks that aren't even really rules (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=3).

Anyways, I laughed when I read today's installment, as I usually do when I read the Order of the Stick web comic, and that is what matters.

[KayJay]

Great comic :) If I had to make one change, I would had one of the guys in that last panel call V a "he", while the other call v a "her"- that would've been a good topping on the cake ;D

[Albion]

Great comic :) If I had to make one change, I would had one of the guys in that last panel call V a "he", while the other call v a "her"- that would've been a good topping on the cake ;D


Hey yeah, hehe. Indeed! ;D "Should we tell her about the 350 gp worth of ink she used?" "No, let him sleep it off." (great line in it self btw) Then the "sob..." could've had many meanings, actually! ;) But hey, maybe it's best the way it is - that is usually the case.

[xyzchyx]

Power word spells may only be one word long, but part of the process of wizards being able to memorize the spell in the first place is an understanding of the arcane processes that one is manipulating through the utterance. If it was, in fact, as simple as uttering just one word, then anyone would be able to cast a spell, simply by speaking the appropriate command word into the air, whether they had magical ability or not. Essential to having a spell that is memorizable is an actual understanding of what is really going on when they cast the spell, which is why Wizards require a high intelligence. Spell books therefore contain not only a list of actual steps to follow, but many accompanying diagrams, and explanations of essential background theory. This is why higher level spells require more pages, even if the components themselves seem simpler in composition than some lower level ones.

[Devils_Advocate]

As much as I usually love OOTS, I was unimpressed with this strip. Yeah, things WOULD be very absurd in many ways if the spell itself, and not just its verbal component, was only one word. That's why it isn't.

Isn't there plenty to make fun of in the actual rules? That's why I liked V and Haley's conversation in OtOoPCs so much; it pointed out how things like level-based advancement and wildly varying life expectancies are inherently screwy. The rules for arcane spells have plenty of comedic potential, surely. Like, say, the fact that a 20th level wizard can prepare dozens of times as many spells as a 1st level wizard can in the same hour. High-level wizards must be really speedy!

Also? 700 gp. (Poor V.)

[faeline]

I think this is how it goes :P

http://static.flickr.com/55/130693703_53b3007a02.jpg

Did it on an msn message with a friend talking about the silliness of it all :P

[Castamir]

Like, say, the fact that a 20th level wizard can prepare dozens of times as many spells as a 1st level wizard can in the same hour. High-level wizards must be really speedy!
You see, I can write dozens of Perl scripts in the same time as a beginner can do just one, browsing manuals for the syntax of every function and so on... And someone who's higher level than me can write an one-liner that does the same as several pages of my code.

[nagora]

Once again, 1st edition beats 3.5.

Bottom line is that both sets of rules fall down in different places. 3.5's worst flaws are the skills rules, but really the big flaw in all versions of (A)D&D has been the idea that the rules have to cover everything. The DM should be made to feel that it is entirely their business to decide the details of their game world, at least at this level.

All level "x" spells requiring x pages is obvious nonsense. As a guideline it's fair enough (although total casting time seems a more reasonable metric), but in specific cases some should take more and some less than the average.

Requiring everyone everywhere to agree on every detail of the rules was a marketing exercise back in the early days when the first modules started to appear (Ah, G1 - Steading of the Hill Giant Chief, how we knew you) someone realised that house rules made off-the-shelf modules a difficult sale since it undermined the whole point of a ready-to-use module. From then on, TSR publications stressed the need to use "official" rules and supplements much more.

[Ladoran]

Now I'm left wondering how scrolls work. If a 7th level spell takes up 7 pages in a spellbook does this mean that the scroll containing this is equally long? If not, where do the wizard get the extra information? Are scrolls written in shorthand and why can't a wizard do the same in his/her spellbook?

Excellent comic, as usual :). Nice to see V getting some screentime for himself.

[geez3r]

and that is precisely why I choose to dumb it down with barbarians and berserkers most of the time. The player character needs a high Intelligence to play a wizard and alot of patience. But I'll put up with all of that just to have stuff randomly explode around me.

Great comic Giant!

[Lianae]

Aww, poor V!

[Slife]

Well, sir, it's a very long word

[sugarmouse121]

LOL "ONE! WORD!" ;D

This still doesn't have to mean that V is a he though!

[Vaniel]

I didn't read the whole discussion thread, but isn't Vaarsuivuis a female? Then why does the wizard calls her by using "him"?

[fithi]

Poor V! Too many spells, and too many rules!

She just can't get a break, can she?

[JessmanCA]

Blind!

The next 6 pages of this thread must be left blank

[Buzzaro]

Blind!

The next 6 pages of this thread must be left blank

in fact, the discussions here a very good example of why it would take 7 pages to write A POWER WORD.

you have to prepare your mind, body and soul to be able to hold the word (as said before) That has taken 6 pages so far of discussion (ok some of that has been "hey look at me I am on page 1" but that is just an ink blot on a page and can easily be overlooked.

so in the game it can take a good 6 pages of instructions drawings and notes or so and then when you get to the last page you begin to write the word and then the pronounceafunkation of the word,
which is more than just how to pornounce a word but how to FEAL IT and effect the mana around you when you say it.

wow, I amazed myself with that one...

Now... What's Miko been up to... No good I would say...

[Mal_the_Mad]

This page intentionallly left blank.



























if it says that then its not blank anymore....

[JazzManJim]

BLIND














Crap. Now I can't see anything.

Next time, put up a **POWER WORD WARNING** before you do that!

[Xenon]

it was a bit silly. really, i would expect those 6 pages to be filled with mandatory legal jargon, so the guy who researched the spell dosent get sued by all teh blind people.

[Edtharan]

If magical "words" are anything like scientific words then I suppose it might be 7 pages long. There is a scientific word that is 1185 letters long (see here: http://www.fun-with-words.com/word_longest.html ).

Take into account all the preperatory chant text, descriptions, mental exercises, pronunciation guides, pictures and diagrams, etc then yes it could blow out to 7 pages.

[Alsadius]

The thing is though, it can't just be a one-word spell. If it was simply a matter of sayting the word and having the target go blind, there would be no spells-per-day limit and the HP limit would be per target, not combined(why does the guy beside me going blind make the word less fearsome?). The trick to the Power Word spells, as I always saw it, was that you're taking a single word(specifically, "Stun" "Blind" or "Kill") and giving it enough magical power to blow out the relevant portions of their skull. It's not the word that takes up the space, it's all the other stuff.

I agree about the one-scribing-per-day rule though - does their hand get tired or something?

[chibibar]

Personally I think there is more to the spell than just a "power word" There are preperation requirement (aka study) what does a person do to "study" before casting? the 7 pages ;) it takes some time to memorize the spell... all level of spells have a basic requirement for memorization right? I don't think anyone would chant "blind" the whole time ;)

[marquiz]

Correct pronounciation of a potential disaster waiting to happen. Especially considering in the D&D 3.0+ versions of the game, arcane spellcasting by wizards require the spell to begin casting prior to the spell usage time, stopping at a "critical" point near the end. afterwards, the actual casting is done, by "completing" the spell.

then again, how would one define a "still" power word? *grin* you dont do anything... and your target gets blind, stunned... or even killed at epic levels, without any outward action. it would be pretty funny.

"ye gods, I'm blind... I'm blind... that mage like person who is drinking his beer at the corner musta done it..."
or
"gargle"

neverthless, considering the wizards approach to arcane magic, requiring libraries, theories, research and such, it is not that hard to think that seven pages long magic is inscribed by "proper materials" into a book, showing potential and proper pronounciations in five dimensions. sigh... I am too much of a nerd

[xyzchyx]

Bottom line is that both sets of rules fall down in different places. 3.5's worst flaws are the skills rules, but really the big flaw in all versions of (A)D&D has been the idea that the rules have to cover everything.This is actually a flaw in the minds of the game's players and DMs more than it is a flaw in the game itself.
The DM should be made to feel that it is entirely their business to decide the details of their game world, at least at this level.Actually, 1e is probably the best edition when it comes to this. At numerous places throughout the player's handbook Gygax states that a DM should not ever feel constrained by the "rules"... and that any decisions made by a DM override the DMG (even to the point of the DM contradicting the DMG entirely, but I do not personally advocate that style of play).

All level "x" spells requiring x pages is obvious nonsense.Not at all. As I said earlier in this thread, spells in spellbooks are not merely descriptions of said spells like a cookbook recipe.... ("do this to cast this spell"), it is accompanied by diagrams and explanations of the arcane theory behind the forces that the wizard is manipulating. In this context, it makes perfect sense why higher level spells would take more pages than lower level ones. If one were to compare it to cooking at all, it would be like a cookbook that contains all the necessary thermodynamics theory behind the processes that are taking place. Obviously, in the context of cooking, that sort of degree of accompanying explanation detracts from the job we are trying to do, but in the case of wizard magic, it is an essential part of what comprises a memorizable spell.

Requiring everyone everywhere to agree on every detail of the rules was a marketing exercise back in the early days when the first modules started to appear (Ah, G1 - Steading of the Hill Giant Chief, how we knew you) someone realised that house rules made off-the-shelf modules a difficult sale since it undermined the whole point of a ready-to-use module. From then on, TSR publications stressed the need to use "official" rules and supplements much more.Most 1st edition modules are perfectly playable with house rules... but obviously one must accept that house rules cannot always be assumed to apply equally by every DM. Playing module L1 under one DM and then playing U1 under another DM one cannot assume that they can even take the same character across, let alone assume the same ruleset. In earlier editions, the player's handbook was just a framework for the game, not a full rulebook, and it was even explicitly described as such within, but it was most definitely the responsibility of the DM to let all of his or her players know up front a list of ALL the deviations he or she had made from the player's handbook before play begins so that players can make informed decisions. For this reason, it was often easier for a DM to adhere to the rulebook fairly closely, and not only really use explicit house rules in areas where the handbook had multiple distinct and contradictory interpretations on a particular matter), or if everyone could agree that the change is a productive one. In my experience, house rules tended to be largely inconsequential to the game as a whole (whether or not one was using weapon vs. armor class factors, for example, to select a matter on which house ruling was fairly common).

[Arachnophile]

This, this is why I never play wizards. Far too many silly rules.

[xyzchyx]

I agree about the one-scribing-per-day rule though - does their hand get tired or something?I had one DM that played with a house rule back when I played 1e that one could write up to their INT's worth of pages per day in their spellbook. Players loved it, for obvious reasons... and it didn't really unbalance the campaign, so we used it for quite some time.

I see no reason why one could not incorporate that rule in a 3e or 3.5e campaign, except that one should not expect to be able to port even a character that was developed with that rule, let alone the rule itself, between different campaigns or DM's.

[JRR]

Bull feces. V is, and always has been female.

[chibibar]

I tell my players to use INT BONUS = how many spells can you scribe a day :)

I have to agree on the pages. It is "require" to prevent couple of things.

1. Too many spells in a spell book per "balance" gameplay. You might need to carry an extra spellbook for extra spells ;) X pages can only contain so many levels of spells ;)

2. Research. A wizard CAN research and with the new rules ALTER the spell by
2a. removing a component (sematics, reagents or gestures)
2b. Change the duration, effects and power
In order to accomplish this task you would need to know the specific of the spell. How is the spell "operate" and "draw its power" then you can alter it (roleplaying here) sure you can get a feat that allows you to "double the duration of the spell" but in role-playing terms... how are you going to do that when you don't know how the spell "works" or how the "duration" effects by what? more components? saying the word differently? do I need to dance like a chicken and say "moo moo?" ;)

Think of it like this... e=MC^2 It is a formula.. a lot of poeple know what it is... BUT!!!! I am guessing there is a whole book (if not more) about the THEORY behind it, possible application, how did the formula came to be etc etc etc....

Same goes with spells ;)

[Elurindel]

Just when I thought the giant had covered every possible angle from which to make fun of D&D, he goes and points out a ton of things I missed! I guess I never noticed due to my Evoker's Tome of the Stilled Tongue which acts as a Blessed Book, and my Quill of Scrivening that narrows spell-writing time to 10 minutes ;D

[xyzchyx]

Waitaminnit!

Power word Blind?

Seventh level?

Okay.... I'm pretty sure that you cannot scribe things into your spellbook that you cannot yet cast.

So does that mean that V is at least 15th level?

7th level is also Limited Wish, isn't it? I wonder if V has that now too.

[Spiderbaby]

I like the idea that V is a character of one gender being played by a person of the other gender. Everytime someone does that in my group's games it winds up confusing and not very convincing. We're a mixed gender group (four girls, three guys) and aren't ones to don falsettos or 'manly' affectations, so opposite genders wind up being one of those details like eye color -- It's on your character sheet, but no one thinks about it most of the time, leading to lots of, "Oh wait, Quinlan is a guy? I forgot..." moments.

That said, I always read him as a 'him'. Elven men are often characterized as effeminate, but not so much the other way around for elven women. Also, I *really* like elven men :P

[xyzchyx]

350gp in ink?

I thought he got to copy these spells for free.... at least that's what Roy said in 296. If he still has to pay for the ink, exactly what was he getting for free that would have normally cost money in the first place?

[chibibar]

all my players avoid any WISH spell with a passion ;)

a GM can have too much fun with a wish spell (even limited one)

[Spiderbaby]

And gender aside, if someone could tell me how Vaarsuvius is pronounced, now that would be useful information. (I say VAR-su-VYE-us, my friend says var-SOO-vee-us.)

[xyzchyx]

all my players avoid any WISH spell with a passion ;)

a GM can have too much fun with a wish spell (even limited one)
Limited Wish is a 7th level spell and supposed to be quite potent... not an inevitable pandora's box always waiting to completely backfire on the caster. If I had a DM that I could count on to ALWAYS twist the wording of ANY wish, well... I wouldn't have him as a DM anymore. There's nothing wrong with a DM twisting a wish that is either potentially unbalancing, too selfish or greedy, or even simply doesn't fit into the current campaign, but ALWAYS twisting them doesn't strike me as being in the spirit of the game. D&D isn't supposed to be the DM vs. the players, after all.

[Kish]

Waitaminnit!

Power word Blind?

Seventh level?

Okay.... I'm pretty sure that you cannot scribe things into your spellbook that you cannot yet cast.

I can't find that rule in the Player's Handbook.


So does that mean that V is at least 15th level?

A 13th level wizard can cast seventh level spells.

And gender aside, if someone could tell me how Vaarsuvius is pronounced, now that would be useful information. (I say VAR-su-VYE-us, my friend says var-SOO-vee-us.)
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?action=display;board=comics;num=1116527345 ;start=15#17

[sroske]

Excellent as always. I was hoping for V to run into a copyright problem and Giant would go on a DRM tangent with V. Woulda been cool.

[xyzchyx]

A 13th level wizard can cast seventh level spells.
Right you are... my bad. But still, I didn't think V could cast 7th level spells yet.

[Solmage]

Soooo funny! :)

I really enjoyed this one. I think the world needs more V strips. Now that I think about it, some of the funniest strips that instantly come to mind if I try to rememeber them offhand involve V in some form or another.

[Spiked Tentacles, Flawless Victory, Give in to your anger young greenhilt, etc etc :) ]

Anyway, great strip 8)

[Dawnstrider_Moogle]

350gp in ink?

I thought he got to copy these spells for free.... at least that's what Roy said in 296. If he still has to pay for the ink, exactly what was he getting for free that would have normally cost money in the first place?

Well, the exact wording was "the 350 GP of ink he used." Maybe the guy was going to be like, hey, you shouldn't go off on me for this considering that you just used 350 GP of our ink for one word!

Alternatively, maybe they don't just let random foreigners into the exalted Sapphire Guard's library.

[Brother_Hood]

Limited Wish is a 7th level spell and supposed to be quite potent... not an inevitable pandora's box always waiting to completely backfire on the caster. If I had a DM that I could count on to ALWAYS twist the wording of ANY wish, well... I wouldn't have him as a DM anymore. There's nothing wrong with a DM twisting a wish that is either potentially unbalancing, too selfish or greedy, or even simply doesn't fit into the current campaign, but ALWAYS twisting them doesn't strike me as being in the spirit of the game. D&D isn't supposed to be the DM vs. the players, after all.


Amen! One reason I don't play.

Love the strip, too. :)

[Doug_Lampert]

Well, the exact wording was "the 350 GP of ink he used." Maybe the guy was going to be like, hey, you shouldn't go off on me for this considering that you just used 350 GP of our ink for one word!

Alternatively, maybe they don't just let random foreigners into the exalted Sapphire Guard's library.
Either the PHB or DMG includes the fee to copy spells from an NPC's spellbook. This is NOT normally free by any means. Whether or not V is paying for the ink he is recieving something of substantial value.

[Nasrudith]

Imagine if this was 3.0 I heard the spells took up twice as much then.

[Finwe]

Hillarious as usual, but I kept thinking that one of them would accidentaly say the word :).

[chibibar]

Limited Wish is a 7th level spell and supposed to be quite potent... not an inevitable pandora's box always waiting to completely backfire on the caster. If I had a DM that I could count on to ALWAYS twist the wording of ANY wish, well... I wouldn't have him as a DM anymore. There's nothing wrong with a DM twisting a wish that is either potentially unbalancing, too selfish or greedy, or even simply doesn't fit into the current campaign, but ALWAYS twisting them doesn't strike me as being in the spirit of the game. D&D isn't supposed to be the DM vs. the players, after all.


nono.. I don't always twist it :) If it is legitimate wish I have no problem doing it, but my players can get pretty greedy sometimes and they always try to "mess up" my campaign one form or another by doing some really weird stuff (but within the rules and setting I provide) I have gotten pretty good getting the players back on track without railroading and make stuff up on the fly.

[Kish]

Tarol Hunt wrote an article on (among other things) adjudicating wish that I thought was interesting here (http://goblinnews.blogspot.com/2006/03/thunts-childhood.html).

[xyzchyx]

We appear to be digressing...

My original question was since V appears to be able to cast Power Word Blind, does he also have Limited Wish inscribed in his spellbook?

[Pesi]

Okay, this is my first post. (woot)

I am the kind of guy who micromanages every detail of the game which is why I tend to prefer playing in forums far above playing in person, or at least DMing that way. The reason spells take up so much space is because of the vast amounts of preperation needed. Also, when it comes to a spell like power word: blind, one thing to keep in mind is that when they say Power word, they mean Power Word. It's not just the word blind or die, It is the very word spoken by the divine entities. This is the kind of thing that if they were to simply think about it without having properly prepared ahead of time they would inadvertantly affect themselves. Reading the word would lead to the effect, thus requiring a very round about means of allowing the spellcaster to essentially rediscover the word each time they have prepared themselves properly. Additionaly the words are extensively long, actually taking about four seconds to say (note the casting time is a standard action in a six second round, how long of a word would that have to be in order to cause you to need that long to simply say.). *sigh* okay, all done. If anyone wants to try and contradict something I mentioned I'd like to see them try (and that's not me being egotistical, I am actually curious where there might be an error).

Thank you for listening to my rant

Edit: just realized I forgot to mention, still a very funny comic, I'm just the guy who always plays as a wizard so I got kinda tweeked.

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one who was thinking along those lines.
Personally, I would have made the joke be about Mage's Lubrication; a spell that, because of the flavor behind spell preparation, cannot possibly exist.

[Gleanerizer]

We appear to be digressing...

My original question was since V appears to be able to cast Power Word Blind, does he also have Limited Wish inscribed in his spellbook?
V offers Wish to Zz'dtri in trade (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=49) in #49.

[Vaniel]

V offers Wish to Zz'dtri in trade (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=49) in #49.

At that time, I think she was just messing around, to conculde that Zz'dtri really doesen't give a ****.

And everyone seemed to ignore my question. Vaarsivuis is a female, then why the wizard call her "HIM"

[battleburn]

And everyone seemed to ignore my question. Vaarsivuis is a female, then why the wizard call her "HIM"

If you read the FAQ and the V's gender topic you see that V is not necessarily a female, though I usually think of V that way. Rich actually says that it is not revealed what gender she/he is.
Here and there in the comics people refer to V as they think V is. This has even been said several times before in this topic I believe.

Further on the topic of the spellbook, I think enough people have said it is logical it takes this many pages because of the preparations and the theory. I agree that it should not be strictly 7 pages, but that a random 7th level spell generally takes about 7 pages of theory and preparations.
The questions left are:
1.) Why can you only write down 1 a day?
2.) Why does the ink cost this much?

A1) Because you have to understand all of the theory behind the spell. It takes a nights rest before you can make a fresh start with a new spell.

A2) I haven't got a clue. What is the rule that says the ink costs this much? Please help me out here, I'm at a loss.

[Mr._Blinky]

Yeah, at least for the moment V's gender is completely unknown. I personally think of V as female because that was what I thought when I first started reading, and just for convenience, but really V could be either one. Or neither.

[battleburn]

Yeah, at least for the moment V's gender is completely unknown. I personally think of V as female because that was what I thought when I first started reading, and just for convenience, but really V could be either one. Or neither.

Neither?¿? *shudders*
One guestcomic seems to agree with that vision. Neither, or possibly both.
Poor Beholder, lets hope the rest of his life after this traumatic experience is short.

[n11]

The questions left are:
1.) Why can you only write down 1 a day?
2.) Why does the ink cost this much?

A1) Because you have to understand all of the theory behind the spell. It takes a nights rest before you can make a fresh start with a new spell.

A2) I haven't got a clue. What is the rule that says the ink costs this much? Please help me out here, I'm at a loss.

Here's an SRD link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#writingaNewSpellintoaSpellbook)

The big inconsistency here is that the wizard need not pay these fees in ink and time for the two spells the wizard gets for leveling. Bizarre.

My house rule is that ink costs 1gp per page (still, very high quality ink), wizards do not get free spells for leveling, wizards can get spells by buying access to spells from a city's mage guild (50gp per level), or by finding spell books and scrolls as treasure (which I am liberal enough with to keep the mages power balanced with the rest of the party). The larger the city, the more likely the city's mage guild will have a particular spell (it comes down to a DC check taking into account city population and spell level).

According to the 3.5 SRD, a 7th level spell would cost 700gp in materials to copy.

[The Giant]

You know, every time I do a rule-based joke, I end up regretting it. I seem to forget that so many people can't ever just relax and enjoy a comic strip without chiming in on why it is "incorrect".

The comic does not, and never has, displayed how *I* feel the rules should be run. They represent the worst possible scenario for bad DM interpretation. If someone who didn't think about it at all started playing D&D, they might adjucate it this way--because nothing in the spell description tells you that there are "mental exercises". I'm not saying that there AREN'T, just that it is not spelled out.

So please, it's a joke. Laugh at the people who might play this way, feel smug that you know better, whatever it takes to get over it. But whatever you do, please, please, PLEASE stop writing five paragraph posts (and emails!) telling me, personally, "why" the rules are that way. I know why they are that way. I'm not actually complaining about them. I'm making a JOKE.

EDIT: And yes, V is of indeterminate gender. Some characters think he's male, some female. Them saying so doesn't make it so.

[Amotis]

A joke!
Hahahaha! ;D
No really, I enjoyed the comic :)

[Orion-the-G]

No! You must be punished because you defy the holy writ of the PHB!! Read Paragraph X in chapter Z! Know just how wrong you are!

[Winged One]

You know, every time I do a rule-based joke, I end up regretting it. I seem to forget that so many people can't ever just relax and enjoy a comic strip without chiming in on why it is "incorrect".

The comic does not, and never has, displayed how *I* feel the rules should be run. They represent the worst possible scenario for bad DM interpretation. If someone who didn't think about it at all started playing D&D, they might adjucate it this way--because nothing in the spell description tells you that there are "mental exercises". I'm not saying that there AREN'T, just that it is not spelled out.

So please, it's a joke. Laugh at the people who might play this way, feel smug that you know better, whatever it takes to get over it. But whatever you do, please, please, PLEASE stop writing five paragraph posts (and emails!) telling me, personally, "why" the rules are that way. I know why they are that way. I'm not actually complaining about them. I'm making a JOKE.

EDIT: And yes, V is of indeterminate gender. Some characters think he's male, some female. Them saying so doesn't make it so.
We know, but overanalysis is fun for us geeks. :)

[Amotis]

We know, but overanalysis is fun for us geeks. :)

Hey, let Ms. Sontag rest in peace!

[DragoonStar47]

Great comic!

[n11]

You know, every time I do a rule-based joke, I end up regretting it.

Rule-based jokes tend to be my favorites (having played this game, on and off, since 1980, I've seen a lot of rules evolve over time). I'd miss them if you took them out of your repertoire.

[Mal_the_Mad]

i think there's a thread for over analysis. besides all this speculation is making my brain hurt.. I must've used all my allowed scribe per day

[plainsfox]

Alright, something for the more analytical of us, V says "I must again thank you for your kind assistance in scribing these new spells into my spellbook These past few days"


1) What other spells do you think that V put his spell book?

2) How long has he been at it?

3) Wouldn't it be funny if Xykon showed up while V was inscribing Power Word: Blind?


I would like to take this moment to thank the Giant for doing these strips. They always make me smile :)

[The Giant]

Rule-based jokes tend to be my favorites (having played this game, on and off, since 1980, I've seen a lot of rules evolve over time). I'd miss them if you took them out of your repertoire.

See, I don't actually mind over-analysis. I mind people telling me directly that I'm WRONG, that I don't understand, that I am not qualified to discuss the D&D rules because I clearly don't grasp them (all of which has been said in my email, and much of it said or implied here). I grasp them just fine, I simply "play dumb" in the comic to make it funny.

[PhoeKun]

Well, I thought it was a good joke.

...Wait, what is this, the comic discussion thread? How did I get here?

[Calaveron]

Hilarious stip, as always.

So wait, V is AT LEAST a level 6th caster and just now she notices how messed up the whole spellbook thing is?

[Castamir]

Hey! Stop picking on rule-lawyering.

Some of us have Asperger's syndrome and work as programmers.

Strict, clear, well-defined rules are what keeps the world consistent. Having anything bent to anyone's wishes brings just confusion. Clearly-thinking DMs and players can expect that the game works according to the rules. If in RL some device stops working, I know how to deal with the problem -- I know to check if it's still plugged in, and so on; those with the "standard" mode of thinking will have issues with troubleshooting and try arguing with the DM first.

This said, house rules are not any worse than rules written in a random book, even if that book was published by the Spooky Wizard That Lives By The Coast. In fact, they are often better, provided they are clear.

[Holy_Knight]

See, I don't actually mind over-analysis. I mind people telling me directly that I'm WRONG, that I don't understand, that I am not qualified to discuss the D&D rules because I clearly don't grasp them (all of which has been said in my email, and much of it said or implied here). I grasp them just fine, I simply "play dumb" in the comic to make it funny.

Well, if it makes you feel better, Giant, I would imagine that the vast majority of people here took this and other jokes just as you intended. Don't let a vocal few get you down. :)

[Dwalin]

I'm excedingly sorry about what I said/ how I said it. I didn't mean to say that you don't understand the rules or why there like that, I simply wanted to make sure that everyone else knew why. Also, I want to apoligize for anyone who may have said you were wrong directly, through e-mail. Again, my point was nothing personal, it was aimed at the group in case someone didn't understand the other side of the joke. I do greatly enjoy your comics, and have since before #100 (ahhh, back in the day). So, Sorry if I have offended you.

[Darth_Cow]

In case anybody's wondering, the 4 letters V spent 350 gp and 24 hours on are "oots".

[Zeekar]

And gender aside, if someone could tell me how Vaarsuvius is pronounced, now that would be useful information. (I say VAR-su-VYE-us, my friend says var-SOO-vee-us.)

There's a FAQ on the character name pronunciations around here somewhere. Couldn't find it just now, but it's here. The only one that surprised me was Elan (it's EE-lin, not eh-LAHN).

In any case, your friend is right. The name "Vaarsuvius" rhymes with "Vesuvius".

As in "Mount".

The volcano?

Pompeii? Italy?

READ A BOOK!!!!!!

Sorry. Lapsed into a Tick episode for a minute there.

Edit: Ah! Found the FAQ: http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1116527345 ;start=15#17

[Mal_the_Mad]

When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars

This is the dawning of the age of Vaarsuvius
The age of Vaarsuvius
Vaarsuvius!
Vaarsuvius!

Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revalation
And the mind's true liberation
Vaarsuvius!
Vaarsuvius!

When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars

This is the dawning of the age of Vaarsuvius
The age of Vaarsuvius
Vaarsuvius!
Vaarsuvius!




ok stuck in my head so now I share it with everyone,


muahahahaha

[Athanatos]

Best rule jokes I've seen in a long time. Great one, Giant.

... but wait! What's this in the last panel? Definitive proof that V is without a shadow of a doubt male! Haha, victory is mine!

[Arian]

My birth sign is Aquarius, but after that, I'll change to being a Vaarsuvian. ;D

[DwaggieBard]

First, let me say that this is a great comic, and that I enjoy all of the rules jokes. I know that Rick Burlew does not nessesarily have the same views as the characters. Just to clarify, I'm not accusing anyone of doing anything wrong, because the comic is so funny this way.

The reason that spells take up so much space in the spell book is thus:
The phase that the spellcaster says within 6 seconds to release the magic is not the entire spell! The actual incantation is much longer, requiring 1 page per level to write down. When the spellcaster prepares the spells, he/she/neither speaks all of the spell but the last part! Thus, when (s)he completes the spell by saying the last part, the full incantation is released in all it's arcane glory. In the case of words of power, that last phase is actually just one word, but it is the end of pages of words in the spellbook. You might have to read that 2 or 3 times to get it.

I have no idea where I read that, but I'm sure it was in an official D&D book somewhere.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Best rule jokes I've seen in a long time. Great one, Giant.

... but wait! What's this in the last panel? Definitive proof that V is without a shadow of a doubt male! Haha, victory is mine!
What? That's not really definitive proof. Just because two supposedly intelligent people happen to perceive the same gender in Vaarsuvius doesn't make them correct.

Besides, Azure City's culture is loosely based on Japan, where this is the epitome of manliness:
http://www.cetraconnection.de/final-fantasy-vii/analyse/sephiroth/sephiroth-1.jpg

[acrobat]

Well, the exact wording was "the 350 GP of ink he used." Maybe the guy was going to be like, hey, you shouldn't go off on me for this considering that you just used 350 GP of our ink for one word!

Alternatively, maybe they don't just let random foreigners into the exalted Sapphire Guard's library.

My take on it wasn't that V had to spend 350gp on ink, but rather that V would predictably respond with incredulity that it was even remotely possible to use that much ink on ONE WORD!

[humanpylon]

Alright, something for the more analytical of us, V says "I must again thank you for your kind assistance in scribing these new spells into my spellbook These past few days"


1) What other spells do you think that V put his spell book?



I'd hazard a guess that he got more blowing-up and killing type spells. Maybe 6th level spells since he may not have many. Chain lightning anyone? Flesh to stone? Or maybe Contingency? Just think of the humor with that one. Ooooh how about this: V-man under the influence of Tenser's Transformation! ;D

[Ablogqwer]

See, this is why V should be a Geometer.

A prestige class where Math = Power!

...Annnd the fact every spell, regardless of spell level, only takes up one page.

[LucaStefan]

Allthough most of you know...

Scribing a spell dose not mean just writting the name down, (from players handbook) it means that the wizard writes down a series of words, simbols, etc that would find the hidden knowledge of the memorised spell and unlock its power. The mage repetes there words and simbols every morning for 30 minutes so that when he is in need of the spell he may only use the single word (or group of words) that unlocks the hidden knoledge.


((And btw, i'm new.. hi!))

[Winged One]

Alldris has kindly provided a thread for the One! Word! discussion. (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1145408025 )

[mec]

I got your one word right here:

And the raven sitting lonely on that placid bust spoke only
That one word as if in that one word his soul he did outpour.
Nothing further than he uttered; not a feather than he fluttered;
Till I scarcely more than muttered: "Other friends have flown before.
On the morrow he will leave me as my hopes have flown before."
Then the bird said: "Nevermore."

I would love to see V narrate my favorite poem!

[neos_dionysos]

^ woooo, mine, too!


See, this is why V should be a Geometer.

Didn't you realize that the OotS characters don't have prestige classes? Especially none from these strange books that just appear to reap us of our money?

...might be a spoiler, so it's beige:

Well, maybe the time will come for PrC to be introduced... but it will start at those in the DMG, I guess.

[battleburn]

Well, if it makes you feel better, Giant, I would imagine that the vast majority of people here took this and other jokes just as you intended. Don't let a vocal few get you down. :)

I second that!!
And I apologize if what I said offended you. I know you know how the rules work. After all there was a reason the Giant in the Playground got respect, with his opinion about the D&D system.

[starry_cybunny]

Wh-a-a-at! V is a guy, I've lived my entire OOTS life thinking V was a girl. My whole OOTS lifestyle is crumbling around me

[Antina]

HEY - STOP POSTING - THIS IS BEING MY SPELLBOOK ;)

Lots of clear pages - too funny - magicans have to write one letter per page... - just greatly shown, giant!!!

[The Glyphstone]

^ woooo, mine, too!


Didn't you realize that the OotS characters don't have prestige classes? Especially none from these strange books that just appear to reap us of our money?

...might be a spoiler, so it's beige:

Well, maybe the time will come for PrC to be introduced... but it will start at those in the DMG, I guess.

We've seen at least 1 PrC....the Shadowdancer, back at the inn.

[Antina]

Wh-a-a-at! V is a guy, I've lived my entire OOTS life thinking V was a girl. My whole OOTS lifestyle is crumbling around me


And how would the azure-city-guys know for sure?
They just assume V to be a "him"...

[battleburn]

Wh-a-a-at! V is a guy, I've lived my entire OOTS life thinking V was a girl. My whole OOTS lifestyle is crumbling around me
Read before you post!!

[aurickandrien]

See, I don't actually mind over-analysis. I mind people telling me directly that I'm WRONG, that I don't understand, that I am not qualified to discuss the D&D rules because I clearly don't grasp them (all of which has been said in my email, and much of it said or implied here). I grasp them just fine, I simply "play dumb" in the comic to make it funny.

I don't know. I just read the thread and saw a lot of people saying the way that they saw the joke... Some said that they liked it and a few others said that it was a bit nonsensical to them. I didn't see anything that said that the people who didn't like the joke thought that you were wrong to have written it or anything to say that they're other than relaxed.

I might have missed something, but I think that maybe you need to stay relaxed about the joke yourself. I mean the point of the joke was the enjoy it wasn't it? So, enjoy it and don't take too seriously what people say, especially when they don't mean anything by it.

Of course I'm just commenting on what I've seen in the thread. So, if you've gotten some nasty e-mails about the joke or something then I can't say anything about that.

[Sc00by]

I thought it was funny. Indeed I thuoght it was hilarious!

Great stuff. I really like the rules based jokes, please donj't stop sneaking them in!

The fan responce to them is funny too. Way to not get the joke guys! ;)

[Tyrasius]

hmmm apparently all these people saying that vaarsuvius (who is a she by the way) has to be a certain level by now didn't notice OOTS #49 (I don't know how to make a link so go to it manually) where we see that she was at least level 16 back then, because she has the level 9 spells, wish, meteor swarm, and time stop.

If someone already mentioned this, sorry

[Faramir]

Once again, 1st edition beats 3.5.

Bottom line is that both sets of rules fall down in different places. 3.5's worst flaws are the skills rules, but really the big flaw in all versions of (A)D&D has been the idea that the rules have to cover everything. The DM should be made to feel that it is entirely their business to decide the details of their game world, at least at this level.

All level "x" spells requiring x pages is obvious nonsense. As a guideline it's fair enough (although total casting time seems a more reasonable metric), but in specific cases some should take more and some less than the average.

Requiring everyone everywhere to agree on every detail of the rules was a marketing exercise back in the early days when the first modules started to appear (Ah, G1 - Steading of the Hill Giant Chief, how we knew you) someone realised that house rules made off-the-shelf modules a difficult sale since it undermined the whole point of a ready-to-use module. From then on, TSR publications stressed the need to use "official" rules and supplements much more.

Ah, another old timer. I remember how TSR would get all bent out of shape at the idea that some player somewhere would run a campaign that didn't follow the official rules exactly. Of course since most of our campaigns started pre-AD&D where it was almost impossible to not adopt house rules, we always got a good laugh out of that.

[Nightfall]

You guys make your wizards keep spellbooks?? ;)

I never adhered to that myself. As long as my players wrote down which spells were "theirs" and which ones were memorized for the day, that was good enough for me. Otherwise it gets in the way of role playing. :)

[chibibar]

Giant : I am not correcting you in any way in my post for sure :) I was just explaining how my world are run via the "spell rule" personally I think it is funny.

Rules are good to have in a gaming session. It can be use as a "final decision" if players cannot adapt their own rule approved by the DM.If you are playing with the same group (as I have) for the last 10 years... we have TONS of house rules and alter so much of the D&D rules we start making up our own :)

BUT I do keep within the rules when going to conventions or playing with someone new :) What I love about D&D is that the rules are just guidelines. It helps you start out the game and play. You don't have to make up rules and such to start playing, but after you play a while, a DM might want to add a little flavor and that is just fine :)

I remember we had psionic WAY before D&D: basic covers them :) woo hoo!!... and time-magic (later dubbed Chronomancy)

[ChristopherDK]

great joke, I can so understand why V is annoyed.

BUT it still leaves a question... IF you prepare a silent power word how does it look.

The elf glares at you really intense and suddenly you go blind.

[TroyXavier]

That was one of my favorite OOTS comics ever. V's gender and a general annoyance is a perfect combination of fun. While I still like Elan's celebration a little better this was a close second in the Azure City comics.

[The Glyphstone]

hmmm apparently all these people saying that vaarsuvius (who is a she by the way) has to be a certain level by now didn't notice OOTS #49 (I don't know how to make a link so go to it manually) where we see that she was at least level 16 back then, because she has the level 9 spells, wish, meteor swarm, and time stop.

If someone already mentioned this, sorry

He/she didn't actually cast those high-level spells...it seemed more like he/she was just spouting off high-level spells in desperation since zz'dtri wouldn't trade Fly.

[chibibar]

great joke, I can so understand why V is annoyed.

BUT it still leaves a question... IF you prepare a silent power word how does it look.

The elf glares at you really intense and suddenly you go blind.

hehe... I got a rule on it (never read the actual ruling but all my players agree with it)

Casting spells requires concentration. Even in the early days of D&D a mage needs to totally concentrate to cast a spell (thus early days if you take damage before the spell is finish.. you lose the spell... later there is a skill call concentration that allows you to take damage and still cast a spell)

Thus.. if you concentrate and "complete" the spell in your mind... (as per spell rules) then you CAN cause blindness via a though (but can only happen as many time you memorize them)

[Comassion]

You know, every time I do a rule-based joke, I end up regretting it. I seem to forget that so many people can't ever just relax and enjoy a comic strip without chiming in on why it is "incorrect".

Have no regrets! For every person who doesn't understand that you're just poking fun at the system, there's a hundred more who just love the comic.

Keep going with the rules jokes - I don't get them anywhere else, and many D&D rules are deserving of ridicule. (Really, magical ink? This somehow confers more information than regular ink? It's just an excuse to make the character 'purchase' spells.)

This is definitely one of my favorites, especially since my group basically ignores all the spell-writing rules and just lets any PC wizard write it down for free if he finds one.

[Priceless_Ming]

See, it always struck me that the power words must be some pretty serious words.

Like:

Gorsafawddacha'idraigodanheddogleddollônpenrhynare urdraethceredigion.

Or:

Taumatawhakatang*ihangakoauauot*amateaturipukaka*p ikimaunga*horonuku*pokaiwhenuak*itanatahu.

Or Even:

flocci*nauci*nihili*pilification.

Now these might not take up all too many pages. But I can only imagine how long these things get in Abyssal or Draconic.

But who knows? I mean, how short could a word that outright kills you really be? It's gotta have more than 12 letters, doesn't it?

Aww man, what if it's got 314 letters and athey never repeat? That could probably clip somebody outright.

[DwaggieBard]

Allthough most of you know...

Scribing a spell dose not mean just writting the name down, (from players handbook) it means that the wizard writes down a series of words, simbols, etc that would find the hidden knowledge of the memorised spell and unlock its power. The mage repetes there words and simbols every morning for 30 minutes so that when he is in need of the spell he may only use the single word (or group of words) that unlocks the hidden knoledge.


((And btw, i'm new.. hi!))

Hey, that's almost exactly what I said... and yet it dosn't look like anybody belives us. :-/

I think, instead of repeating the words and symbols over and over, the wizard (or whatever) traces the symbols, says all the words once, and then when he/she says the finishing word the magic is released. I might have misread it, but I think that's the way it works.

And btw, I'm new!

[battleburn]

He/she didn't actually cast those high-level spells...it seemed more like he/she was just spouting off high-level spells in desperation since zz'dtri wouldn't trade Fly.

If you take a look at 49. You see that the first few times she was reading them from her spellbook. When she came to the really good spells like wish, you see that she doesn't look in the spellbook anymore.
She was just testing Zz'dtri

[fwiffo]

Now that we had mighty and powerful OZ Shojo, the ruler of Emerald Azure City, grant everyone their wishes; and all the brains, hearts and fake legs have been distributed, it is time for OOTS to get out and go get the Wicked Witch Evil Lich. And not a moment too soon - all the city adventuring has been getting silly.

306 didn't work for me. The humor in OOTS is based on characters. You put the different character traits into conflict with each other, and that creates the humor. And in 306, someone is acting out of character, IMO. It is wizard against wizard, arguing about the way the spells are scribed. V is high-level wizard and so I would imagine the court wizard. Yet one of them is not aware of the exact rules by which spells need to be scribed in the spellbook? How did they get to be where they are without doing this procedure many many times before, and knowing exactly what needs to be done?

Now, maybe one can make a joke about how bureaucracy follows the rules without thinking about them, so that they take the rule and apply it blindly. That would make some sense, especially since Giant just did his taxes and so might be in a mood to poke fun at the complex nonsensical government procedures. But I don't think that is the route the comic took.

[Dwalin]

Now I understand why Giant feels bad. I assure you, however, that they are the minority.

[n11]

In response to Fwiffo, other hilarious bits have ensued when V calls the "inconsistencies" of the role-playing game onto the carpet. See #145 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=145) for an example, but my favorite is on pages 51 and 52 of OtOoPCs, where you see V whining in the face of a rule that he/she has dealt with his/her entire life, much like comic #306. (In this context, #306 is very in-character for V)

[fwiffo]

In response to Fwiffo, other hilarious bits have ensued when V calls the "inconsistencies" of the role-playing game onto the carpet. See #145 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=145) for an example, but my favorite is on pages 51 and 52 of OtOoPCs, where you see V whining in the face of a rule that he/she has dealt with his/her entire life, much like comic #306. (In this context, #306 is very in-character for V)

But, in 145, V is on the other side. He is the one who understands the rules and follows them, and explains them to others. Even the unwritten rules like tedium of random encounters. That is in character for V - to understand and follow complexity of things, even arbitrary complexity of some of D&D obscure rules. That type of knowledge and understanding is one of the things that gives V his superiority complex - that he is able to know things that his fellow co-adventurers are not really smart enough to know. Something like his potion shop strip #135 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=135) , where he was explaining the rules of running the store to the shop owners, IMO, fits V. But, in 306, he is on the other side - he is the one who doesn't understand the rules.

Sorry, don't have OtOoPCs, so can't tell what that is about. Need to get it someday. Maybe when next book is out, would be a good time to order both.

[chibibar]

ahh... but you see.. it is related :)

V knows that no matter how long the travel is, REAL players will only sit in for ONE encounter.. thus the DM will only do 1 encounter.

Now... a REAL players will only write down the spell name but not the description or actual component of the spell. Thus V is pointing out.. I wrote my power word. I'm done! why does it take up 7 pages when in "real life" it only take up ONE WORD! ONE!! ;) To V, it is same as DM saying for every spell you pick you much have x blank pages to match the spell level.

So I would write my 1st level spell for EACH page instead of listing them in a row on a single page ;)

that is how I see it.

[Amalthea]

But, in 145, V is on the other side. He is the one who understands the rules and follows them, and explains them to others. Even the unwritten rules like tedium of random encounters. That is in character for V - to understand and follow complexity of things, even arbitrary complexity of some of D&D obscure rules. That type of knowledge and understanding is one of the things that gives V his superiority complex - that he is able to know things that his fellow co-adventurers are not really smart enough to know. Something like his potion shop strip #135 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=135) , where he was explaining the rules of running the store to the shop owners, IMO, fits V. But, in 306, he is on the other side - he is the one who doesn't understand the rules.

The thing with V, Fwiffo, is that he's a know-it-all. He's perfectly content with complex and obscure rules... as long as he's the one explaining them. And as long as they don't inconvenience V in any important fashion. If a rule DOES inconvenience V, he's more than happy to ignore it, (such is the manner of someone who tells the laws of physics to sit down and shut up). Having someone else explain the rule TO him is just adding insult to injury.

[Seraph]

now, why do I prefer sorcerers to wizards, again?

oh, right.

[Allanon]

Despite how funny I found this I would like to point out that V forgot that there are many more components to a spell then verbal ones for instance in a sleep spell you must throw the sand in the perfect way at the perfect time with the perfect words after focusing during a meditation obviously the complexity of spells increases as they get more powerful which is why a spell comprising of only one word would fill up 7 pages

thank you for listening to Allanon on the complexities of the ancient art of grimiore

[Kish]

Despite how funny I found this I would like to point out that V forgot that there are many more components to a spell then verbal ones
When the spell has somatic and material components. That was the first thing I thought of too, so I looked. Nope...only verbal.

[stickygoo]

key reason i don't play spell casters. too much to keep track of.

[fwiffo]

Well, yes, I agree that V's know-it-all attitude would make him extra irritated if he finds something that someone knows and he doesn't. So, having someone explain rules to him would bother him a lot more than, let's say, math-challenged Durkon (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=34).

But, I still don't see why the rule came as a surprise to him. Scribing spells into a spellbook is something that he should know like a back of his hand. Hasn't he done it many many times before?

If he was irritated with the rule, and that he has to follow it, when he knows that the rule is just an administrative nonsense, I could see his attitude. As someone who works on government project, where the rules are such that you have to jump through 20 complex procedures to accomplish any little thing, I am all too familiar with desire to bypass the rules.

But, he seems to be genuinly unaware of it. His attitude was not "yeah, I know there is a rule like that, but you don't need to follow it". He acted like he was not really aware that there was such a thing at all. And to me, that is un-V-like.

And even if he was unaware of it, would he act like it? Part of V's know-it-all attitude would make him very reluctant to admit gaps in his knowledge. I would expect him to say "Oh, yes, of course I know that you are supposed to use that many pages" at the same time as he mentally tells himself "I've never heard of that one".

[Old_el_Paso]

YAH! w00t! I are teh 133t master! More stupid leet/chatspeak nonsense! 14th page!

[EscherEnigma]

People keep mentionging how V has probably scribed spells before, so he should have encountered this before.

Now, I'm not saying he hasn't, but there's no evidence that he has either. I don't have Origin of the PCs, so I don't know if it suggests in that book that these were PCs that had been adventuring since lvl 1 and worked their way up to their current level, or if they were generated at that level, but in the latter case it is a very real possibility that the player didn't deal with the scribing rules at all. They could have just taken the 2 spells a level and been happy with that. And before now, the only times that V trying to scribe a spell has been discussed he failed to aquire it.

So, roleplaying wise, of course he should know about this. But this is poking at the rules, and how players interpret the rules, and the player could have skipped over those rules just as lightly as gender.

Either way, I thought it was funny.

Oh: and V mentioned that he's been at this for a few days, does that mean that time has advanced? will we never know what happened in room 115?

[DragoonStar47]

Love the comic Rich! :D

[n11]

As for OtOoPCs, V complains about a difference between humans and elves and how it relates to a character's power (level). Having lived in the world for 103 years, V would know full well about this rule, but V still complains (again as if s/he were learning the rule for the first time), though in a slightly different way. I wish I could say more without spoiling the book, so find a friend and borrow it, or get on over to Paizo. (Elan's backstory is the funniest in my opinion, but they were all good.)

[Athanatos]

What? That's not really definitive proof. Just because two supposedly intelligent people happen to perceive the same gender in Vaarsuvius doesn't make them correct.

Sarcasm, son. It's a beautiful thing.

[Dwalin]

Well, yes, I agree that V's know-it-all attitude would make him extra irritated if he finds something that someone knows and he doesn't. So, having someone explain rules to him would bother him a lot more than, let's say, math-challenged Durkon (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=34).

But, I still don't see why the rule came as a surprise to him. Scribing spells into a spellbook is something that he should know like a back of his hand. Hasn't he done it many many times before?

If he was irritated with the rule, and that he has to follow it, when he knows that the rule is just an administrative nonsense, I could see his attitude. As someone who works on government project, where the rules are such that you have to jump through 20 complex procedures to accomplish any little thing, I am all too familiar with desire to bypass the rules.

But, he seems to be genuinly unaware of it. His attitude was not "yeah, I know there is a rule like that, but you don't need to follow it". He acted like he was not really aware that there was such a thing at all. And to me, that is un-V-like.

And even if he was unaware of it, would he act like it? Part of V's know-it-all attitude would make him very reluctant to admit gaps in his knowledge. I would expect him to say "Oh, yes, of course I know that you are supposed to use that many pages" at the same time as he mentally tells himself "I've never heard of that one".

Something to keep in mind, however, is that V never says he didn't know of that rule. I interpreted that he is implying a "yeah I know that but" before each of his statements. This reminds me of math teachers who require the use of slow techniques because they think it's the "right" way, when there are really much better ways to do the same problem and get the correct answer. V knows why they think the way they do, he just wants them to realize there might be an exception.

[Steward]

Is Vaarsuvius going to die?

[Wren]

Is Vaarsuvius going to die?

Well you see, when papa bear and mama bear love each other very much..

[Hototo]

Male. Him. Varsuvius is a guy. Mwhahahaa. It has been DECIDED!


...right? grr!!!

[RBloom0566]

It figures. ::)

[The Giant]

But, I still don't see why the rule came as a surprise to him. Scribing spells into a spellbook is something that he should know like a back of his hand. Hasn't he done it many many times before?

V just gained access to 7th level spells, which is the lowest level of any of the Power Word spells. Therefore, he had never scribed a spell that fell under these parameters.

[Allanon]

Despite how funny I found this I would like to point out that V forgot that there are many more components to a spell then verbal ones

When the spell has somatic and material components. That was the first thing I thought of too, so I looked. Nope...only verbal.
*sighs*
"Being or functioning as a constituent or an ingredient."
A definition of Component

As you would know if you had read the rest of my post I was refering to the other required ingredients for a spell not the game mechanic components obviously a power word does not require anything but a verbal component I didn't bother looking even if my uncanny memorie is inacurate it has no bearing on what I said
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Edit:Wait a sec I just realised what the Giant just said he has given away V's and probabily the rest of the parties level! Too bad I don't think his posts are official

[infiniteviking]

This is the dawning of the age of Vaarsuvius*falls over laughing*


I got your one word right here:

And the raven sitting lonely on that placid bust spoke only
That one word as if in that one word his soul he did outpour.
Nothing further than he uttered; not a feather than he fluttered;
Till I scarcely more than muttered: "Other friends have flown before.
On the morrow he will leave me as my hopes have flown before."
Then the bird said: "Nevermore."

I would love to see V narrate my favorite poem!I can see it. I really can. And it's hysterical. (The sight, not the elf.) Gvgvgvgvgvgvgv!


V just gained access to 7th level spells, which is the lowest level of any of the Power Word spells. Therefore, he had never scribed a spell that fell under these parameters.So Vaarsuvius doesn't know it all -- just most of it. *g* In my opinion, that's part of what makes him so much fun.

You go on making rule jokes, Giant. (Even if they're just ONE WORD!) I didn't understand most of them when I started reading OotS, but I'm learning -- and it's the characters' reactions that give me the necessary context. Thanks for the education!

[Tmabbbb]

LOL! That was hilarious! ONE WORD!

I also liked that part when he said: Are we giving it its personal space? Perhaps we should ask it to discuss its feelings!