A distinct lack of Fey... [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

JellyPooga

2016-07-28, 01:55 PM

Looking through a tome of monsters foul and fair,
I perked up my ears to a pleasant sounding air.
I couldn'ae place the tune, no matter which way,
when it struck me in the face; there's a distinct lack of Fey!

I looked and searched, but to no avail,
The first Fair Folk would barely make one quail.
The pretty little Dryad, bound to her tree,
not to be found 'fore page hundred, twenty!

I continued my quest, past Giant and Djinn,
found next my goal in a secret coven.
Foul Hag her name, in both swamp and sea,
but not vicious Night, oh no, not she.

A Harpy, a Hound, Hook Horror abound,
I near missed my next, eyes fixed to the ground.
A Pixie flew o'er, seen only by magic,
my attempts to catch her were woefully tragic.

Followed swiftly behind by a merry young fellow,
his piping was jolly, then fearful, then mellow.
A Satyr! I cried, 'fore drooping my eyes,
I regret that he left without parting goodbyes.

When next I came 'round, my heart skipped a beat;
an arrow so small was lodged in my feet!
Another I spied, I stayed quite contrite,
I'd heard of the pinpricks from bow of a Sprite.

I scoured and called, for all my might,
but none of the Folk would answer my plight.
I retired to home, right sad from my slog,
glad though for Rex, my faithful Blink Dog!

So there it is; six whole Fey creatures (seven if you count Green and Sea Hags as separate) in the entire Monster Manual. Considering that there are over 150 critters in the book, I feel this is woefully lacking.

-Where's my Nymph? Where are the Grigs, the Sylphs, the Selkies and Gremlins?
-Why is the Unicorn a Celestial? Or the Peryton a Monstrosity?
-What about the Will o' the Wisp? What's that doing being Undead? Or the Banshee?
-The noble Centaurs have long had fae connections; could we not recruit them for the cause?
-How about giving the Kenku a little re-skin? They'd fit right in to a Faerie Court with their mimicry and sinister undertones.
-The Quaggoth could easily become footsoldiers of the Unseelie; the artwork screams "FEY!" to me, at least.
-Dopplegangers have their origins in the stories of the Fair Folk; what's prompted the move away from that Court?
-What about Harpies? If we're not getting Nymphs luring travelers into ponds, can we at least get Harpies luring sailors onto the rocks in the name of the Faerie Queen?

Anyways, I've had my little rant. If you've any suggestions for other creatures that might fit better as Fey, or particular Fey (from any source) you enjoy reading about or using in your games, please share! Hope y'all enjoyed the poem!

Ninja_Prawn

2016-07-28, 02:02 PM

Did someone say 'fey'?

So, I've been (very slowly) working on a pack of homebrew fey monsters (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5wh33z72zn2hmgw/Fey%20Folio.pdf?dl=0). It's miles away from being done and way down my list of priorities (I haven't even finished inserting all the fey creatures (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19621408&postcount=15) I've already 'brewed...), but one day I *will* finish it!

For people who use PC sheets as NPCs, there's always my fey races (https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3crmpfdbc5u5x5/Fey%20Creatures%20Complete.pdf?dl=0)! ^_^

gkathellar

2016-07-28, 02:11 PM

Yeah, I was really pleased to see the Feywild included on the Great Wheel as a counterpart to the Plane of Shadows, but if there aren't any fey monsters, that kinda falls flat.

JellyPooga

2016-07-28, 02:12 PM

I should have known posting this thread would be prawn bait... :D

Thanks for the links! I'm pretty sure I've seen your Fey Player Races (good stuff), bit I've not seen the others yet.

R.Shackleford

2016-07-28, 02:15 PM

As per wotc model, they don't create stuff anymore. They leave that to the fans and 3rd party.

Be lucky you have what you get and don't expect much more.

Ninja_Prawn

2016-07-28, 02:16 PM

I should have known posting this thread would be prawn bait... :D

Thanks for the links! I'm pretty sure I've seen your Fey Player Races (good stuff), bit I've not seen the others yet.

That's no surprise; I don't normally publicise the folio, because it's so... unfinished. I've got tons of inspiration for things I want to put into it, but no time to write them up. :smallfrown:

JakOfAllTirades

2016-07-28, 02:21 PM

Fomorians are definitely Fey, Goblins should be Fey, and let's not forget those m****r f*****g Redcaps!

Ninja_Prawn

2016-07-28, 02:29 PM

Fomorians are definitely Fey

Fomorians clearly suffer from the apparent fact that no monster can have two types now. Because they're definitely giants, as well.

Same for faerie dragons, which - due to some monstrous injustice - are listed as dragons!

https://66.media.tumblr.com/6cc03d03cfab1fb5df0b08db992dd430/tumblr_nue642S8xR1ug3ij2o1_500.gif

Joe the Rat

2016-07-28, 02:43 PM

I've found it quite lacking as well. So I've taken my silver blade to some delightful guests and put new skins on their mundane frames. I don't know why they did all that screaming. They did ask to be more glamorous.

Twig Blights. Darling things, but so soaked in blood. We take the vampire away, and give the forms to some lesser spirits to pretend to be people. It is frustrating for them at times, and they do get jealous, but I'm sure they just need a few more pieces to be real boys and girls.

Gorgons. Lady Blackheart of the 7th, a dear sweet hag of mine, found the boars of mundane forests simply nowhere near as personable (or tasty) as our own green swine. So she brought her beloved pet with her when she traveled. He was rather fearsome though, and his breath was absolutely petrifying.

Will-o-wisps. Unseelie little 'lighters, always looking for new people to play with.

Succubi and Incubi. Nymphs are so passe. These are your real unearthly beauties. Trading dark leather for brilliant resilins, they become the Maidens and Masters, Scions of the Courts. They don't want to corrupt your soul, merely bring you to the party. It's a good party. Stay, stay at the party. You don't have a choice.

Genies. A twist on the courts with an elemental theme, these Lords and Ladies have a bit more material bent to their enchantments. The Queen of AIR and darkness ought to have a little bit of wind. Blue fairies do grant wishes, you know. Genasi become Changelings. The real kind, not those doppelkinder.

JellyPooga

2016-07-28, 02:43 PM

Fomorians are definitely Fey, Goblins should be Fey, and let's not forget those m****r f*****g Redcaps!

Fomorians clearly suffer from the apparent fact that no monster can have two types now. Because they're definitely giants, as well.

Same for faerie dragons, which - due to some monstrous injustice - are listed as dragons!

Ooh good calls on all of them. Except maybe Goblins; I can appreciate Goblins as Fey, but they have a distinct place in D&D lore on the Goblin-Hobgoblin-Bugbear scale. Unless we made all three Fey...it would certainly fit the Bugbear as the proverbial one in the closet. Hmmm....

R.Shackleford

2016-07-28, 03:21 PM

Ooh good calls on all of them. Except maybe Goblins; I can appreciate Goblins as Fey, but they have a distinct place in D&D lore on the Goblin-Hobgoblin-Bugbear scale. Unless we made all three Fey...it would certainly fit the Bugbear as the proverbial one in the closet. Hmmm....

Why aren't all of them fey?

With that I mean, do we have any good reason they aren't?

gkathellar

2016-07-28, 03:40 PM

Why aren't all of them fey?

With that I mean, do we have any good reason they aren't?

Mostly because that definition of fey encompasses just about all terrestrial supernatural beings.

There's nothing wrong with that definition, it's just not D&D's definition, as a matter of tradition.

D&D's traditional definition falling somewhere between pop-culture fairies and, "comely females with an ambiguously defined connection to nature, of unusual sizes, made out of unusual materials, or connected to terrain features." It's not a definition with basis in mythology (dryads and naiads aren't fairies, after all, but rather Greek nature spirits), but it's as good as any other, especially as it's veered away from the comely females and more towards the "ambiguously defined connection to nature."

Basically, D&D calls it fey if it feels fey, not for any particular reason.

Regitnui

2016-07-28, 03:52 PM

I came here to mention succubi, since I plan on putting a N fey succubus as a nymph/naiad in my group's next adventure. I'm heartened by the fact Eberron doesn't rely on the great wheel; a succubus can come from Dal Quor, where it gives and feeds off the sexy dreams or Thelanis, where they're leanan sidhe muses and emotion eaters. I'm sure there are others. I've even asked Keith Baker what sort of non-fey (according to WotC) can fit in with Thelanis. I'll respond when the next Dragonshard is posted.

Foxhound438

2016-07-28, 04:30 PM

Mostly because that definition of fey encompasses just about all terrestrial supernatural beings.

as much as we would all love a scientific definition of what qualifies a "faerie", being fictional leaves that entirely up in the air. Any two games might have fairly different ideas of that.

sky red hunter

2016-07-28, 04:47 PM

Ninja_Prawn

2016-07-28, 05:05 PM

-What about the Will o' the Wisp? What's that doing being Undead? Or the Banshee?

will o' the wisp is a dead spirit no? and a banshee is a ghost that heralds death so undead is spot on, and thats coming from an Irish person.

As a Brit, I also support the undead classification for those. Wills o' the wisp are more of a boundary case; they are sometimes called 'faerie lights', often feature in fairy tales, are found in enchanted woodlands and have the capricious/malevolent tinge of D&D fey. From a strict, biological stand point though, 'undead' is fair.

Speaking of fey/undead crossovers, how about some love for the glaistig? Water-dwelling bloodsuckers with the legs of a goat... What's not to love?

Shining Wrath

2016-07-28, 05:14 PM

I'm working on porting all the fey from the 3.5 MM (1->5). The Frostwind Virago will come in at CR 17 after I'm done with it, which helps fill the hole of "not a dragon nor a fiend, but still a challenge for upper level party". Glastig will be interesting, as it's not dangerous to a 4-person party but if it can get someone one-on-one is lethal.

And so on.

Sigreid

2016-07-28, 05:14 PM

Fomorians clearly suffer from the apparent fact that no monster can have two types now. Because they're definitely giants, as well.

Same for faerie dragons, which - due to some monstrous injustice - are listed as dragons!

https://66.media.tumblr.com/6cc03d03cfab1fb5df0b08db992dd430/tumblr_nue642S8xR1ug3ij2o1_500.gif

Fomarians are closer to the giants of Norse legend engaged in war with the sidhe. I don't think the fey type really works for them. Interestingly enough, the word kobold refereed to a fey creature often regarded as being interchangeable with goblins and brownies.

MaxWilson

2016-07-28, 05:34 PM

Mostly because that definition of fey encompasses just about all terrestrial supernatural beings.

There's nothing wrong with that definition, it's just not D&D's definition, as a matter of tradition.

D&D's traditional definition falling somewhere between pop-culture fairies and, "comely females with an ambiguously defined connection to nature, of unusual sizes, made out of unusual materials, or connected to terrain features." It's not a definition with basis in mythology (dryads and naiads aren't fairies, after all, but rather Greek nature spirits), but it's as good as any other, especially as it's veered away from the comely females and more towards the "ambiguously defined connection to nature."

Basically, D&D calls it fey if it feels fey, not for any particular reason.

I like to give my fey extra restrictions inspired by the Dresden Files: fey cannot tell lies but love to deceive; fey are obsessed with both courtesy and "balance", won't accept favors without payment nor grant them; fey cannot enter dwellings without invitation.

I want them to have a recognizable commonality in-world, not just in the DM's notebook of monster stats.

JellyPooga

2016-07-29, 07:22 AM

Why aren't all of them fey?

With that I mean, do we have any good reason they aren't?

Here's an interesting spin on the Goblin family, if we're going to make them Fey; make them a shapechanger.

The creature is a Goblin, a Fey creature of fear, chaos and destruction and has three forms; Gremlin (chaos), Hobgoblin (destruction) and Bugbear (fear). The Gremlin stats are as the MM Goblin and the Hob and the Bug are exactly as written but for the Fey type and shapechanger subtype.

Each form has one additional ability describing the manner in which they can change shape; Gremlins can change to Hobgoblins, who in turn can change back to Gremlins or further into Bugbears, who themselves can only turn to Hobgoblins (so no direct Gremlin to Bugbear transformation). I differ on how long each transformation should take; my first instinct was to make it a non-combat ability and take one minute, but I think it might be an intersting encounter to face one of these that could change as an action (or even a bonus action!). HP is an issue I haven't really considered. What do you think?

will o' the wisp is a dead spirit no? and a banshee is a ghost that heralds death so undead is spot on, and thats coming from an Irish person.

As a Brit, I also support the undead classification for those. Wills o' the wisp are more of a boundary case; they are sometimes called 'faerie lights', often feature in fairy tales, are found in enchanted woodlands and have the capricious/malevolent tinge of D&D fey. From a strict, biological stand point though, 'undead' is fair.

I agree that "boundary case" is about right, even generous, but they're both also good (the best?) candidates in the MM for ethereal or ephemeral Fey, which I think should definitely be a thing.

There's enough lore regarding both to make a decent enough case; as the Prawn mentions, Wills are often portrayed as capricious or even malicious fae spirits that lure wanderers into (or out of) danger, much as other fey (like Nymphs) use their abilities to captivate or entrance people.

As for Banshees, yes, typically they're very much on the evil end of the spectrum and are usually painted as a ghost-like entity, but I've also seen enough lore about them that distinguishes them from "regular" ghosts (i.e. the spirit of an actual dead person); rather being a "natural spirit" of death and a herald of doom. That puts them far enough into the Fey camp for me.

Speaking of fey/undead crossovers, how about some love for the glaistig? Water-dwelling bloodsuckers with the legs of a goat... What's not to love?

I'm always a fan of anything that supports the more sinister face the Fey hide from the world!

Fomarians are closer to the giants of Norse legend engaged in war with the sidhe. I don't think the fey type really works for them. Interestingly enough, the word kobold refereed to a fey creature often regarded as being interchangeable with goblins and brownies.

I can see an argument for the Formorians beimg either Fey or Giant type. I think the reason more critters in the MM aren't classified as Fey is because the devs decided that physical form trumps the Fey type. The Will-o'-the-Wisp, Formorian and Peryton all support this supposition to an extent and an argument could be made for the likes of the Ogre Mage, Genies, Twig Blights (as someone mentioned above) and more.

Sir cryosin

2016-07-29, 08:15 AM

Now im not to familiar with my mm but I think I saw unicorn as fey. I'm afb so I can't check.

JellyPooga

2016-07-29, 08:19 AM

Now im not to familiar with my mm but I think I saw unicorn as fey. I'm afb so I can't check.

Nope, they've made them Celestial. I can see the reasoning, but thematically they do fit the Fey type, I think and I've an inclining that in previous editions they were.

Sir cryosin

2016-07-29, 08:23 AM

Nope, they've made them Celestial. I can see the reasoning, but thematically they do fit the Fey type, I think and I've an inclining that in previous editions they were.

Now I can see a pegasus being celestrial but a unicorn is always fey to me.
As a side note is there a Pegasus in the MM?

Shining Wrath

2016-07-29, 08:39 AM

I agree that a unicorn ought to be Fey.
For that matter, I think a case could be made for Treants as well.

JellyPooga

2016-07-29, 09:02 AM

Now I can see a pegasus being celestrial but a unicorn is always fey to me.
As a side note is there a Pegasus in the MM?

There is; also Celestial.

Anonymouswizard

2016-07-29, 09:19 AM

-What about the Will o' the Wisp? What's that doing being Undead? Or the Banshee?

will o' the wisp is a dead spirit no? and a banshee is a ghost that heralds death so undead is spot on, and thats coming from an Irish person.

Banshee comes from Bean Sidhe, or woman of the fairy mound. Originally they would have been a fairy who looks over a mortal family and lets out a cry when one of them is about to die. The modern interpretation is a ghost, but originally they would have been a rather alive fairy.

Fae/fairy is a problematic term though, as it can mean a number of things (like, it turns out, goblin and troll). D&D uses it as roughly 'a spirit link to nature', which means that a Unicorn should be fae but a banshee wouldn't be.

gkathellar

2016-07-29, 09:32 AM

as much as we would all love a scientific definition of what qualifies a "faerie", being fictional leaves that entirely up in the air. Any two games might have fairly different ideas of that.

Two things:
My point in the post you quoted is that the model describing "goblins" as fairies is pretty clearly not the one D&D uses, and is more in line with the folkloric traditions of the British Isles and the Gauls, for whom precious few supernatural beings would not have been described as fairies or goblins or whatnot. Goblin is a pretty ambiguous word anyway, as indicated by the way Shakespeare uses it, among others - D&D's definition is pretty strongly based in Tolkein, who used the word as more-or-less interchangeable with "orc" (itself derived from Old-to-Middle English words for "monster" or "demon"). There's nothing wrong with straying from either definition, but there are reasons why 5E calls goblins humanoids and not fey, and those are what I'm discussing.
I don't disagree with what you're saying in general, but "fey" is a creature type in the books. D&D 5E clearly has some pretty strong preconceptions about what the word means (just as many previous editions have had their own definitions), and insofar as a discussion can be had, it's on the grounds of those preconceptions. If you're just saying that said preconceptions are irrelevant and no discussion can be had, period ... well, uh, okay. I guess we won't discuss it.

Fae/fairy is a problematic term though, as it can mean a number of things (like, it turns out, goblin and troll). D&D uses it as roughly 'a spirit link to nature', which means that a Unicorn should be fae but a banshee wouldn't be.

It's funny. "Greek nature spirit" seems to have migrated wholesale over to fey, while a lot of actual fairies don't fit the type.

Not a criticism, mind, just amusing that "fairy," a culturally bounded term, doesn't include a lot of monsters originating from the cultures that used it.

Joe the Rat

2016-07-29, 09:55 AM

Yeah, I think their lines are
Spirits of Other Planes: Celestial or Fiend or Other Outsider.
Spirits that Once Lived: Undead.
Spirits of the Natural World, by which we mean European Forests: Fey.

I've pegged Unicorns as Fey. Narwhals are Celestial.

Regitnui

2016-07-29, 10:00 AM

Maxor

2016-07-29, 10:00 AM

I haven't DM'd 5th at all yet. (honestly I'm meh on it but my pathfinder group broke-up) That said it seems to me that recent history in D&D has had its iconic stories tend way more towards demons and undead than fey. I somewhat think that is a somewhat conscious decision on the part of WoTC as a way to differentiate it's publications from the third party.

I personally like playing and running things less clearly defined as good and evil but I understand the reluctance of the company to shy away from it.

Regitnui

2016-07-29, 10:11 AM

Etl17

2016-07-29, 10:22 AM

I agree! where have all the fey gone? They are coming out with that new book Volo's guide to monsters, I sure hope it has some more fey in it.

Pugwampy

2016-07-29, 10:35 AM

I love fairies . Why are they being mean to da Wee Folk of Tir Na Nog ?

Are there any Pugwampy,s in 5E beasty book ?

Joe the Rat

2016-07-29, 10:48 AM

Where are the stats for those?

Also, if unicorns are Fey, does that make felidar fey too?
I'm improvising. A Whale with Unicorn mental stats and powers. And the horn attack. And flight.

I don't know felidar. Alicorns (The evil carnivorous unicorn definition) certainly would be, and Unseelie, and completely indistinguishable from the nice kind. Because I'm a bastard.

Regitnui

2016-07-29, 11:00 AM

I'm improvising. A Whale with Unicorn mental stats and powers. And the horn attack. And flight.

I don't know felidar. Alicorns (The evil carnivorous unicorn definition) certainly would be, and Unseelie, and completely indistinguishable from the nice kind. Because I'm a bastard.

Felidar are from the Plane Shift: Zendikar freebie. They're panther unicorns, stat-wise. Lorewise they're the mounts of truly righteous warriors, capable of living for centuries and only appearing when truly needed.

Joe the Rat

2016-07-29, 11:05 AM

Sounds good to me. As this thread shows, they need all the counts they can. I think a lot of the "Normal Animal + Magic" monsters could make the shift to Fey. Winter Wolves, for example.

JellyPooga

2016-07-29, 11:10 AM

Sounds good to me. As this thread shows, they need all the counts they can. I think a lot of the "Normal Animal + Magic" monsters could make the shift to Fey. Winter Wolves, for example.

I can totally see Winter Wolves being pets of the Winter Court. Or would they be allies, or members even? Int 7 is a little dull, but I can totally see a smarter-than-average bear wolf being the mastermind behind an Unseelie plot.

Ninja_Prawn

2016-07-29, 11:29 AM

Regitnui

2016-07-29, 12:05 PM

Displacer Beast! Displacer Beast!

That's a good one. Weren't they fey?

Ninja_Prawn

2016-07-29, 12:11 PM

That's a good one. Weren't they fey?

Nope, monstrosity. Anything that looks like a beast but has supernatural powers gets classified as a monstrosity.

JellyPooga

2016-07-29, 12:12 PM

Displacer Beast! Displacer Beast!

Ooh...that is a good one. Shift their alignment from LE to CN or LN, perhaps and they go straight into my Wild Hunt. There's no reason we couldn't mix and match here; imagine a Displacer Blink Dog-Beast; the frustration of trying to pin one down while it strikes from every angle...I could dig that encounter!

Ninja_Prawn

2016-07-29, 12:38 PM

Ooh...that is a good one. Shift their alignment from LE to CN or LN, perhaps and they go straight into my Wild Hunt. There's no reason we couldn't mix and match here; imagine a Displacer Blink Dog-Beast; the frustration of trying to pin one down while it strikes from every angle...I could dig that encounter!

In a similar vein, phase spiders could probably be re-branded as fey.

JellyPooga

2016-07-29, 12:43 PM

In a similar vein, phase spiders could probably be re-branded as fey.

And in the spirit of mix'n'match, refluffed Beasts (whilst not Fey, per se, they'd have to keep the Beast type, I think) with odd traits; wolves with antlers, snakes with wings (oh wait; that's already a thing!), stags with lion legs...pretty much any chimeric combination you care to think of...would fit well into a Fey-themed scenario or campaign.

Ninja_Prawn

2016-07-29, 01:16 PM

And in the spirit of mix'n'match, refluffed Beasts (whilst not Fey, per se, they'd have to keep the Beast type, I think) with odd traits; wolves with antlers, snakes with wings (oh wait; that's already a thing!), stags with lion legs...pretty much any chimeric combination you care to think of...would fit well into a Fey-themed scenario or campaign.

A shark with knees? (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjq_5Lwq5nOAhWJIsAKHSehB-8QtwIIKDAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fgetyarn.io%2Fyarn-clip%2F5a19b453-0f01-4b6a-aa44-49002e64b477&usg=AFQjCNH1R3Cusb_koEW7jSRvzG0bB742PQ&sig2=xhA5HSjWZjXGt-hKh53hlg)

JellyPooga

2016-07-29, 01:36 PM

A shark with knees?

*shrugs* Yeah, why not? :p

Grey Watcher

2016-07-29, 04:01 PM

What this thread shows us is that WotC does not Feyvor such creatures.

Sigreid

2016-07-29, 05:37 PM

Now I can see a pegasus being celestrial but a unicorn is always fey to me.
As a side note is there a Pegasus in the MM?

If I remember right, the Unicorn has been Celestial since at least 3e.

Sigreid

2016-07-29, 05:41 PM

Banshee comes from Bean Sidhe, or woman of the fairy mound. Originally they would have been a fairy who looks over a mortal family and lets out a cry when one of them is about to die. The modern interpretation is a ghost, but originally they would have been a rather alive fairy.

Fae/fairy is a problematic term though, as it can mean a number of things (like, it turns out, goblin and troll). D&D uses it as roughly 'a spirit link to nature', which means that a Unicorn should be fae but a banshee wouldn't be.

I think they got their bad rep because of the Tain. Three of them washing bloody clothes and weeping for the fallen Cu Chulin being one of the 3 omens of his impending doom.

JellyPooga

2016-08-03, 06:50 PM

So after having had a codge on the notion of making Goblinoids join the ranks of the Fair Folk, here's what I came up with (critique and questions welcome, of course);

Goblins
- Goblins are malevolent shapechangers that embody the forces of chaos, destruction and fear. Their shapechanging ability is limited to three forms, each one roughly corresponding to one of the forces they draw upon.
- Their natural form is small and repulsively ugly, with almost comedic, overlarge features. In this form they are vicious and cunning, using guile and stealth to torment their victims.
- Their second form, often referred to as their Hobgoblin form, is much larger. In this form, a Goblin adopts something akin to discipline, finding an affinity for destruction in numbers. When a war-party of Goblins is abroad, they often travel in Hobgoblin form, marching in step to cover ground more quickly. Do not be fooled, however, they are still unpredictable in this form.
- The Goblins final form, the one that embodies fear in its most primal sense, is larger still than the Hobgoblin. Their Bugbear form is truly horrifying to behold; a bestial slab of muscle, tooth and claw, all covered in a thick matted fur pelt. When it emerges from the shadows to pounce, its victims are often frozen in fear, wondering how such a monstrosity managed to hide so completely.

Goblin
Small Fey (Shapechanger), Chaotic Evil
Armour Class: 14 (shield)
Hit Points: 17 (3d8+3)
Speed: 30ft
Str:10 (+0), Dex:14 (+2), Con:12 (+1), Int:10 (+0), Wis:10 (+0), Cha:8 (-1)
Skills: Stealth +6
Senses: Darkvision 60ft, Passive Perception: 10
Languages: Common, Sylvan, Goblin
Challenge: 2
Shapechanger: The Goblin can use its action to polymorph into a specific Medium Hobgoblin or Bugbear or back into its true form (that of a Goblin). Other than its size, its statistics remain the same in each form. Any equipment it is carrying isn't transformed. It reverts to its true form if it dies.

Nimble Escape (True form only): The Goblin can take the Disengage or Hide action as a bonus action on each of its turns.

Martial Advantage (Hobgoblin form only): Once per turn the Goblin can deal an extra 7 (2d6) damage to a creature it hits with a weapon attack if that creature is within 5ft of an ally of the Goblin that isn't incapacitated.

Brute (Bugbear form only): A melee weapon deals one extra die of its damage when the Goblin hits with it.

Surprise Attack (Bugbear form only): If the Goblin surprises a creature and hits it with an attack during the first round of combat, the target takes an extra 7 (2d6) damage from the attack.
Actions:
Scimitar. Melee weapon attack; +4 to hit, reach 5ft, one target. Hit: 5 (1d6+2) slashing damage.
Variant: Goblin Firestarter
Some Goblins have an affinity for fire and are able to channel heat and flame with gleeful abandon, spreading chaos and destruction in their wake.

These Goblins have the following trait;
Innate Spellcasting: The Goblins innate spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC:9, +1 to hit with spell attacks). The Goblin can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material components:

At Will: Control Flames, Firebolt, Produce Flame
1/day: Flaming Sphere
2/day: Burning Hands

Well, there it is. I think a Challenge of 2 seems about right, but I'm really only eyeballing it. If someone wanted to do the maths on that, as per the DMG, I'd be grateful.

Being a shapechanger, the Goblin/Hobgoblin/Bugbear abilities don't stack, but can synergise somewhat. The limitation of changing shape being an action means that you'll likely only see one or two forms in a given combat, but being able to take an action to adopt Goblin form and a bonus action to disengage makes them very good at running away, which I though appropriate.

The variant Firestarter I added in as a bit of an afterthought. With such a low Charisma and no synergy with their normal abilities (which are already exclusive, based on the form they're in), I doubt any GM will get much success with the spells! Still, I thought it appropriately thematic.

I want to expand and revise the fluff somewhat; perhaps give them a connection to Hags. There's also a notion going around my head of a larger creature being a Goblin that has stayed in Bugbear form too long and got "stuck" that way. My initial thoughts were something along the lines of the Quaggoth; just a brute, dumb, bruiser with a penchant for ambush tactics, but I could be persuaded otherwise.

Anyways, there it is. Hope you enjoy.

R.Shackleford

2016-08-03, 07:34 PM

I'm still in the process of fleshing out my own setting but this thread kinda put the initial thought in my head for the overall theme of it.

Earth (real life) and the Feywild are alternate realities of each other.

Bad things happen in the feywild so Elves make a portal to escape. Gnomes, goblins, and hobgoblins follow. Metal (which is extremely rare on their side) dampens magic so the races build portals to allow the Feywild magic to leak over. Too much leaks over and Earth's creatures are transformed and many creatures from the feywild are transported over. The portals close for good.

The races met the neanderthals when they first came over. Neanderthals are your basic human race in the PHB (slightly modified) whereas humans are a slightly modified 5e PHB Half Elf... Neanderthals can mate with Elves to make Humans. Humans are the only uncommon race.

There is one kingdom, rules by 5 houses (one from each common race), and they need to start exploring the earth so they are sending out adventurers to find new lands.

Soo... thanks!

Still fleshing things out but I have a a Hag Coven waiting for my players.

Saeviomage

2016-08-03, 09:28 PM

It almost seems like fey should be a tag, rather than a type. I would argue the same should apply to demons, devils and undead too.

Joe the Rat

2016-08-04, 08:37 AM

They're not big on multiple tags, unless it's a subtyping thing. Humanoid (shapechanger) and Humanoid (goblinoid), for example.

Speaking of demons and devils...
I'm going to have a Morrigan-like entity in an upcoming session. Vrock and Erinyes statblocks are my startpoints for "playfully eating your entrails" and "Insulted Lady" modes. Also, her spilled blood turns into a swarm of corvids as a Lair action.

Shining Wrath

2016-08-04, 09:08 AM

I've been mulling over how to handle the Seelie / Unseelie divide as I convert 3.5 Fey. What to do with, for example, the Joystealer, which is explicitly unseelie?

I'm leaning toward the divide goes two ways. All the fey agree that they should protect "nature". For the seelie, "natural" is a continuum, looking something like this:

[Beast Ooze Plant Elemental (Int<3)] > [Elemental (Int>3) Humanoid Giant] > Monstrosity > [Celestial Fiend] > [Construct]>[Aberration Undead]

For the unseelie, "natural" is a list: Beast Ooze Plant. If you didn't make the list, you deserve no protection.

Part of the disagreement between the Summer and Winter Courts, then, is essentially religious in nature.

The second division is a matter of how strictly the rules get enforced. Seelie fey might let a necromancer bring his Skellybros through their forest so long as the necromancer and friends were doing something beneficial to nature, such as closing a portal to the Abyss. Just so long as he didn't stick around and didn't create new ones, safe passage would be allowed.

Unseelie fey would either destroy the necromancer on sight or, more likely, permit he and his friends to battle the demons and close the portal, then attack from ambush the minute the portal was closed.

Grey Watcher

2016-08-04, 09:25 AM

It almost seems like fey should be a tag, rather than a type. I would argue the same should apply to demons, devils and undead too.

I understand that streamlining things was a driving force in 5e's design, but this is one of those things that I think they've simplified a little too much. But c'est la vie.

gkathellar

2016-08-04, 09:41 AM

I've been mulling over how to handle the Seelie / Unseelie divide as I convert 3.5 Fey. What to do with, for example, the Joystealer, which is explicitly unseelie?

I'd honestly just make the Plane of Shadow into the home of the Unseelie, and the Feywild into the Seelie. It's not like the Seelie are nice, or anything - it's just that they're silly (as in that is literally what the word "seelie" means). Unsilly fey live in the darkness and chop off your head and often have a lot of overlap with ghosts and undead. Sounds like the plane of shadow to me.

JellyPooga

2016-08-04, 09:53 AM

I'd honestly just make the Plane of Shadow into the home of the Unseelie, and the Feywild into the Seelie. It's not like the Seelie are nice, or anything - it's just that they're silly (as in that is literally what the word "seelie" means). Unsilly fey live in the darkness and chop off your head and often have a lot of overlap with ghosts and undead. Sounds like the plane of shadow to me.

It would certainly give a different spin on the cosmology of the planes, especially if you made the borders of the Plane of Shadow and the Feywild contiguous (perhaps calling those borders Dawn and Dusk). Come to think of it, I kind of like that idea; the Fey have long been associated with natural cycles, so why shouldn't their home plane(s) reflect that too? The Winter Court, in the heart of the Plane of Shadow (perhaps renamed the Shadowfell?) would occupy a position in direct opposition to the Summer Court in the Feywild. On the borders of Dawn and Dusk, the boundaries between the Seelie and the Unseelie are much less well defined, making those places both dangerous and exciting...the perfect place for some Fey adventures involving intrigue and adventure away from the Courts.

Grey Watcher

2016-08-04, 10:13 AM

It would certainly give a different spin on the cosmology of the planes, especially if you made the borders of the Plane of Shadow and the Feywild contiguous (perhaps calling those borders Dawn and Dusk). Come to think of it, I kind of like that idea; the Fey have long been associated with natural cycles, so why shouldn't their home plane(s) reflect that too? The Winter Court, in the heart of the Plane of Shadow (perhaps renamed the Shadowfell?) would occupy a position in direct opposition to the Summer Court in the Feywild. On the borders of Dawn and Dusk, the boundaries between the Seelie and the Unseelie are much less well defined, making those places both dangerous and exciting...the perfect place for some Fey adventures involving intrigue and adventure away from the Courts.

I dunno, to me the Unseelie and the Seasonal Courts are very different things: this model doesn't leave room for a sparkling and beautiful (though still deadly) winter wonderland, nor does it leave room for a bleak and desolate desert whose only signs of life are the restless undead corpses of those foolish enough to try to cross. (Although there's some ambiguity as to whether the Shadowfell/Plane of Shadow even HAS an analogue to the sun to make a desert hot instead of cold).

Plus, I'd shy away from dichotomies and equals-and-opposites in worldbuilding the fey: makes it too easy to categorize and define something that's supposed to defy human logic and understanding.

I actually like the idea in one of Ninja Prawn's linked documents: that the Unseelie are fey that are, whether of their own volition or not, are outside the Court system.

Shining Wrath

2016-08-04, 10:15 AM

It would certainly give a different spin on the cosmology of the planes, especially if you made the borders of the Plane of Shadow and the Feywild contiguous (perhaps calling those borders Dawn and Dusk). Come to think of it, I kind of like that idea; the Fey have long been associated with natural cycles, so why shouldn't their home plane(s) reflect that too? The Winter Court, in the heart of the Plane of Shadow (perhaps renamed the Shadowfell?) would occupy a position in direct opposition to the Summer Court in the Feywild. On the borders of Dawn and Dusk, the boundaries between the Seelie and the Unseelie are much less well defined, making those places both dangerous and exciting...the perfect place for some Fey adventures involving intrigue and adventure away from the Courts.

In other words, the Feywild / Shadowlands are a circle just like the Elemental Planes and the Outer Planes. I like the consistency. I'm not so sure about consigning the Unseelie to the Shadows, though; negative energy and fey don't quite jibe in my mind. Maybe the Seelie fey have the nicest "Fey" 90%, undead have the "Shadow" 180%, and Unseelie get pushed into the grey area between, making them bitter and resentful of both Seelie and Undead.

Shining Wrath

2016-08-04, 10:20 AM

I dunno, to me the Unseelie and the Seasonal Courts are very different things: this model doesn't leave room for a sparkling and beautiful (though still deadly) winter wonderland, nor does it leave room for a bleak and desolate desert whose only signs of life are the restless undead corpses of those foolish enough to try to cross. (Although there's some ambiguity as to whether the Shadowfell/Plane of Shadow even HAS an analogue to the sun to make a desert hot instead of cold).

Plus, I'd shy away from dichotomies and equals-and-opposites in worldbuilding the fey: makes it too easy to categorize and define something that's supposed to defy human logic and understanding.

I actually like the idea in one of Ninja Prawn's linked documents: that the Unseelie are fey that are, whether of their own volition or not, are outside the Court system.

I recall CS Lewis in That Hideous Strength having Ransom muse on spirits that were neither of heaven or hell, but had not yet chosen a side. Evidently Merlin knew one of those, or something like that. I'd see a place for three sides; some fey are not Seelie nor Unseelie, and some are not in Summer or Winter Court, and not all Seelie are Summer nor Unseelie Winter. Works out to nine varieties
Summer-Seelie Winter-Seelie No-court Seelie
Summer-Unseelie Winter-Unseelie No-court Unseelie
Summer-Unaligned Winter-Unaligned No-court unaligned

The matrix is diagonally dominant.

JellyPooga

2016-08-04, 10:31 AM

In other words, the Feywild / Shadowlands are a circle just like the Elemental Planes and the Outer Planes. I like the consistency.

Yeah, that's the gist. It's certainly neat and it satisfies my desire for things to "make sense"!

I'm not so sure about consigning the Unseelie to the Shadows, though; negative energy and fey don't quite jibe in my mind. Maybe the Seelie fey have the nicest "Fey" 90%, undead have the "Shadow" 180%, and Unseelie get pushed into the grey area between, making them bitter and resentful of both Seelie and Undead.

This kind of sets up Undead as being the polar opposite to the Fey, which isn't necessarily a bad thing; it could put the Unseelie into one of the "grey areas" between the extremes, using the "weapons" of the enemy to achieve their goals, so to speak. That, in itself, could make for some interesting gaming.

Ninja_Prawn

2016-08-04, 10:50 AM

I actually like the idea in one of Ninja Prawn's linked documents: that the Unseelie are fey that are, whether of their own volition or not, are outside the Court system.

:smallbiggrin: Thank you! Your approval means a lot!

I'd just like to reiterate that the court (and archfey) descriptions in my homebrew are not intended to be definitive; they're just the ones I use. I did, however, read through and incorporate a number of sources (including as much of the D&D canon as is available for free) while I was writing those, and the idea that 'unseelie' is more like an alignment than a Court existed before I borrowed it.

gkathellar

2016-08-04, 11:49 AM

I actually like the idea in one of Ninja Prawn's linked documents: that the Unseelie are fey that are, whether of their own volition or not, are outside the Court system.

That seems reasonable. Here's a thought:

All four seasonal courts exist continuously in the Feywild, and become contiguous with parts of the Prime Material as those parts pass through seasonal cycles. The courts might even be something like the "prime directions" of faerie - you couldn't go North or South in the Feywild, but you could go Spring and Autumn. The unseelie, on the other hand, exist in the Shadowfell, which is contiguous with dark and desolate places in the Prime all year round, and more closely maps to the Prime as a shadowy afterimage.

How does that sound?

I'm not so sure about consigning the Unseelie to the Shadows, though; negative energy and fey don't quite jibe in my mind..

Remember, the Plane of Shadows is not the same thing as the Negative Energy plane (which is really just another Inner Plane). Shadow is one part transitive plane, one part "Prime Material, through a glass darkly." The association with negative energy and the undead is almost incidental.

To my mind, the Feywild is a funhouse reflection of the Prime's undisturbed wilderness, and the Shadow is a reflection of its untamed darkness. Neither is really an Outer or Inner Plane, nor are they "proper" transitive planes in the sense that the Astral and the Ethereal serve as roads to those realms and mediums in which they exist. They exist solely in reference to the Prime.

Grey Watcher

2016-08-04, 12:19 PM

That seems reasonable. Here's a thought:

All four seasonal courts exist continuously in the Feywild, and become contiguous with parts of the Prime Material as those parts pass through seasonal cycles. The courts might even be something like the "prime directions" of faerie - you couldn't go North or South in the Feywild, but you could go Spring and Autumn. The unseelie, on the other hand, exist in the Shadowfell, which is contiguous with dark and desolate places in the Prime all year round, and more closely maps to the Prime as a shadowy afterimage.

How does that sound?

I'm just loath to confine the Unseelie to the Shadowfell, even if it has indistinct borders with the Feywild. To me, it just undercuts a lot of what makes the Feywild, well, wild. Strange dangers lurk right around the corner from pleasant refuges. The same creature might seem a benevolent surrogate family one moment and be a monster ready to devour your soul the next.

To me, the Feywild should have

wonders more incredible than you can possibly imagine - and terrors to freeze your soul. ... It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.

Remember, the Plane of Shadows is not the same thing as the Negative Energy plane (which is really just another Inner Plane). Shadow is one part transitive plane, one part "Prime Material, through a glass darkly." The association with negative energy and the undead is almost incidental.

To my mind, the Feywild is a funhouse reflection of the Prime's undisturbed wilderness, and the Shadow is a reflection of its untamed darkness. Neither is really an Outer or Inner Plane, nor are they "proper" transitive planes in the sense that the Astral and the Ethereal serve as roads to those realms and mediums in which they exist. They exist solely in reference to the Prime.

Heh, this reminds me of an idea I had a while back: we all tend to view our situation as being the center of the world, right? Even if we understand, intellectually, that that's not the case, it's very difficult (with some exceptions) to avoid seeing your own language, gender, sexuality, culture, nationality, whatever, as "default"* and others as "variants". So that got me thinking, "surely the Fey don't see their home plane as some kind of reflection or byproduct of the Prime." So instead I imagined that they think of both the Prime and the Shadowfell as dim, subdued reflections of the "real world" (ie the Feywild). (Obviously, the Shadowfell is dimmer and further removed than the Prime, and, assuming the Shadowfell even has natives, which, depending on the cosmology may or may not be true, they have a similar, but inverted view.)

gkathellar

2016-08-04, 12:24 PM

Well, the whole "there is no true center" bit is 100% canon in 2E Planescape, at least (i.e. the only Planescape that matters). So hey! Sounds good.

Regitnui

2016-08-04, 01:03 PM

Thelanis (the Feywild in Eberron) is really undefined, but I personally like the idea of Courts as directions. There are four directions in Thelanis; Summerward, Widdershins, Winterward, and Deosil. Summerward heads towards the sun, where it lies high noon over the Summer Court. Winterward heads towards the moon, where a bright full moon illuminates the frosted mountains of the Winter Court. Widdershins heads away from the sun, and Deosil away from the moon. If you're in the Realm of the Erlking, for example, you're close to the Summer Court, so heading Summerwards is fairly easy. Winterwards is difficult. Deosil sends you deeper into Summer lands, but not necessarily towards the Summer Court. Widdershins sends you into Wintery lands, but not towards Winter.

:smallconfused::smalleek:

Confused? So are most mortals, which is why you need a guide or an invitation to get anywhere in Thelanis. Of course, you could rely on luck...:smallfrown:

Grey Watcher

2016-08-04, 03:15 PM

...

so heading Summerwards is fairly easy. Winterwards is difficult.

...

Unless a Zeno fairy lays a curse on you. Then, the closer you get to a thing, the harder it is to get closer. :smalltongue:

In all seriousness, I like the idea that the Feywild doesn't quite line up neatly with a conventional understanding of three dimensional space.

Shining Wrath

2016-08-05, 11:47 AM

Unless a Zeno fairy lays a curse on you. Then, the closer you get to a thing, the harder it is to get closer. :smalltongue:

In all seriousness, I like the idea that the Feywild doesn't quite line up neatly with a conventional understanding of three dimensional space.

Would that be an example of a Feytal Attraction?

Seriously, though, I think that once you get off the Prime Material distances and directions acquire a fair degree of wonkosity, getting more extreme the further you travel. It's just that it's a pain in the fingers to draw maps in Hilbert Space.

Grey Watcher

2016-08-05, 12:21 PM

Seriously, though, I think that once you get off the Prime Material distances and directions acquire a fair degree of wonkosity, getting more extreme the further you travel. It's just that it's a pain in the fingers to draw maps in Hilbert Space.

True, but I think with Mechanus or Limbo or the Abyss or Celestia, you get something that is very obviously I Don't Think We're in KansasWaterdeep Anymore, Toto vibe, the Feywild is juuuust enough like the world of humans that it looks like it should be navigable by them, until you find yourself face-to-talon with Baba Yaga's cottage, despite knowing that was several days journey from where you are, or think you are.

Would that be an example of a Feytal Attraction?

I must feygn indifference to such unseelie conduct. It's better to pixie one's battles, ya grig? :smallamused:

Regitnui

2016-08-05, 01:44 PM

True, but I think with Mechanus or Limbo or the Abyss or Celestia, you get something that is very obviously I Don't Think We're in KansasWaterdeep Anymore, Toto vibe, the Feywild is juuuust enough like the world of humans that it looks like it should be navigable by them, until you find yourself face-to-talon with Baba Yaga's cottage, despite knowing that was several days journey from where you are, or think you are.

The thing is with the lawful aligned planes is that they do operate on consistent geography. Most planes, excepting Limbo/Kythri, have consistent geography. It's just that 'consistent' doesn't necessarily mean 'earthlike'. No compass would work for you on Ysgard or Shavarath.

There's no way you can go Deosil to end up Widdershins of where you started in the Feywild. Places are connected by ideas, not location. Going from the Erlking's Lodge Deosil may take you to a forest glade guarded by a white stag. Widdershins from the same spot takes you to a red cap village where newcomers are ritualistically slaughtered. There's no way to get to the glade from the red cap village or vice versa, even though they're linked by the idea of hunting.

Grey Watcher

2016-08-05, 02:19 PM

The thing is with the lawful aligned planes is that they do operate on consistent geography. Most planes, excepting Limbo/Kythri, have consistent geography. It's just that 'consistent' doesn't necessarily mean 'earthlike'. No compass would work for you on Ysgard or Shavarath.

There's no way you can go Deosil to end up Widdershins of where you started in the Feywild. Places are connected by ideas, not location. Going from the Erlking's Lodge Deosil may take you to a forest glade guarded by a white stag. Widdershins from the same spot takes you to a red cap village where newcomers are ritualistically slaughtered. There's no way to get to the glade from the red cap village or vice versa, even though they're linked by the idea of hunting.

True, and I got that. My point was that the Feywild looks enough like the conventional world that you might try going "West", even though that's as non-sensical in the Feywild as going "Desoil" is in ours. And, as a result, you'll probably end up somewhere other than where you meant to be.

(OK, so maybe the bit about ending up at Baba Yaga's doorstep despite what you thought was the distance from here to there was much greater than it was was probably just an inept illustration of the point I was trying to make.)

Regitnui

2016-08-05, 02:45 PM

True, and I got that. My point was that the Feywild looks enough like the conventional world that you might try going "West", even though that's as non-sensical in the Feywild as going "Desoil" is in ours. And, as a result, you'll probably end up somewhere other than where you meant to be.

(OK, so maybe the bit about ending up at Baba Yaga's doorstep despite what you thought was the distance from here to there was much greater than it was was probably just an inept illustration of the point I was trying to make.)

Well, Baba Yaga is an Archfey, the "Mother of All Witches" who lives in a mobile cottage. If anyone can change distances in Thelanis, it's her.

The main problem with drawing a map of Thelanis is that deosil and widdershins are circular movements, not straight lines. Summerward and Winterward are fairly easily mapped, if the geography doesn't always agree with you.