Passives for a Melee PC

[Kesnit]

I'm running a module for 3 players, plus 1 NPC that I built and turned over to the players to run.

Half-Orc Fighter 4/Barbarian 5
Halfling Cloistered Cleric 6/Divine Oracle 3
Soul-Scourged Hellbred Binder 1/Warlock 8 (going into Hellfire Warlock next level)
Kobold Rogue 9 (this is the NPC)

Since I have more build experience than my players, I built the FGT/BARB and the Warlock (at the request of the players).

The party is ready to level to 10, and I don't know what to do with the FGT/BARB. Currently, she uses Spirit Lion Totem. Her feats are: Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Greataxe), Extra Rage, Cleave, Great Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Mage Slayer.

The player enjoys playing, but only wants to "Krunkette SMASH!!!" She has no issue when the other players do RP with NPCs, but does not participate in most conversations.

I'm running out of feats to give her that (1) would actually be useful, and (2) she would actually use. All she wants to do is run in and hit things. She uses Rage, but has enough rages per day that she can use one in every combat. Other than that, she doesn't think to use feats or class abilities. (She played a Bard in a previous campaign. She only ever used one song, and only used spells when other players reminded her that she had them.)

What are some good always on/passives that can work on a pure melee PC? If necessary, I can rebuild to swap things out. (I doubt she would notice the difference, unless I took away Cleave. She specifically wants Great Cleave, even though it has only been useful once since they started at LVL 4.)

[Sian]

Give her a single Warblade level focusing on stuff such as Wall of Blades and other reactive maneuvers (Moment of Perfect Mind and Action before Thought would be nice if you tweaked her skill distribution) and Punishing Stance ... and Ironheart Aura as a feat giving her friends bonuses to saves

Given careful selection it should still be rather low-maintenance, and self-sufficient

[J-H]

Assuming ToB is out (the good stuff), look at PHB2 and the weapon supremacy/mastery line.

[OldTrees1]

War Hulk 4 (Miniatures Handbook) gives an always active form of cleave [Passive Effect]

Knockback feat (Races of Stone) gives a Bullrush on every hit [Triggered Effect, but almost always triggered]


So I would suggest changing it to a Goliath with Mountain Rage(gains +2 Str & Large size in addition to Rage during rage) to qualify for the above 2 options.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I second a one-level warblade dip. You can include the stance in the base character sheet, and print a few cards/tokens with maneuvers on them, primarily boosts and counters. It might encourage a bit more tactical play, or at least a moment of "I'm going to charge really badly now, with this boost!".

[OldTrees1]

I second a one-level warblade dip. You can include the stance in the base character sheet, and print a few cards/tokens with maneuvers on them, primarily boosts and counters. It might encourage a bit more tactical play, or at least a moment of "I'm going to charge really badly now, with this boost!".

Cough cough.
If the OP explicitly asks for Passive/Always Active, perhaps we can provide Passive/Always Active suggestions rather than Activated abilities?

So as far as ToB is concerned, what stances would make sense as an always active stance?

[Red Fel]

Cough cough.
If the OP asks for Passive/Always Active, perhaps we can provide Passive/Always Active suggestions rather than Activated abilities?

Stances are passive/always active. A Warblade dip gives her a stance. Even if she never uses the maneuvers, that's a good investment - and it beats taking Martial Study and Martial Stance, as one dip beats two feats.

[OldTrees1]

Stances are passive/always active. A Warblade dip gives her a stance. Even if she never uses the maneuvers, that's a good investment - and it beats taking Martial Study and Martial Stance, as one dip beats two feats.

Ninja'd the 2nd half of my post :smallredface:
Since the OP asked about Passives, What stances make sense as/good pick for an always active stance?

Swordsage 2 for instance can pick up a 3rd/4th level stance if taken at 8th/12th level.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Cough cough.
If the OP explicitly asks for Passive/Always Active, perhaps we can provide Passive/Always Active suggestions rather than Activated abilities?
Based on the fact that the player is willing to use rage, I didn't think it was too far-fetched to use boosts, as well. For example, Sudden Leap, Lion's Roar, and later on, Fountain of Blood, perhaps even Scything Blade (to fit with the Cleave theme), if their IL goes high enough. To be fair, swordsages have access to more low-level boosts, so that would suit this style better, but there's still enough Iron Heart and Tiger Claw for a warblade dip to be useful.


So as far as ToB is concerned, what stances would make sense as an always active stance?
With initiator level 5, access to third-level maneuvers, I'd suggest:
Leading the Charge - +IL bonus on damage rolls on charge attacks, for all allies within 60' (which includes yourself, unless there is an errata I'm not aware of).
Absolute Steel - +10' movement speed, and effectively Expeditious Dodge, counteracting the AC penalty on charging.
Leaping Dragon Stance - +10 Jump, combine with Leap Attack and Sudden Leap, avoid difficult terrain and obstacles by jumping (twice).

[Red Fel]

Stances for a character with Pounce? Punishing Stance. -2 to AC, +1d6 on each hit. This is a Half-Orc, she don't care.

Also, does she have the Reckless Charge racial substitution level? I feel like that fits.

Lastly, consider several feats. First, does she have Shock Trooper? She probably needs Shock Trooper. Also, does she have Instantaneous Rage? Give her that. It's great. It lets her rage in response to anything, even on somebody else's turn.

One of my favorite combos is Instantaneous Rage + Intimidating Rage + Never Outnumbered + Imperious Command. Do you know what this does?

First, Instantaneous Rage lets her Rage at any time, for any reason. Intimidating Rage allows her to immediately demoralize a target when she Rages. Imperious Command causes that target to Cower, rather than merely be Shaken, for one round; that target will remain Shaken for the remainder of her Rage. Lastly, the Never Outnumbered skill trick allows you to do that same thing to every enemy in 30 feet.

It's not quite a passive, in that you actually do a thing - namely, roll Intimidate when you rage. But when you think about it, it simple adds a rider effect to something she already does.

[Extra Anchovies]

As much as we like to spin it as good for every situation, I don't think ToB is the sort of thing OP is looking for here.

First thing that comes to mind is Incarnum. Two levels in Totemist can be just gross in a lot of builds even if you're not using natural attacks or juggling essentia between melds, and there's a number of totem binds that give passive-ish abilities. If the player doesn't want to have to keep track of what they have shaped every day, maybe they'd be fine with having just a couple melds that they wear all the time; I'd compensate by giving the Totemist levels full BAB and making the soulmelds (Ex) but it's probably viable without it. Incarnum can be very light on bookkeeping if you let it be, and maybe the option to shift essentia could get the player to start working with a wider variety of game mechanics.

Oh, and if they like Incarnum after trying a Totemist dip, point them in the direction of the Totem Rager. That class is scary.

[Pugwampy]

What are some good always on/passives that can work on a pure melee PC? If necessary, I can rebuild to swap things out. (I doubt she would notice the difference, unless I took away Cleave. She specifically wants Great Cleave, even though it has only been useful once since they started at LVL 4.)


There is a charging feat for half orcs called Headlong Rush .
If Krunky the barbarian has a very high armour class you could consider reckless rage feat .
If she does not have enough armour something as simple as dodge and mobility feats would help alot .
Dirty fighting feat gives an extra 1d4 damage .

[Kesnit]

Give her a single Warblade level focusing on stuff such as Wall of Blades and other reactive maneuvers (Moment of Perfect Mind and Action before Thought would be nice if you tweaked her skill distribution) and Punishing Stance ... and Ironheart Aura as a feat giving her friends bonuses to saves

Given careful selection it should still be rather low-maintenance, and self-sufficient


I second a one-level warblade dip. You can include the stance in the base character sheet, and print a few cards/tokens with maneuvers on them, primarily boosts and counters. It might encourage a bit more tactical play, or at least a moment of "I'm going to charge really badly now, with this boost!".


Cough cough.
If the OP explicitly asks for Passive/Always Active, perhaps we can provide Passive/Always Active suggestions rather than Activated abilities?

This. The player in question likes playing, but she is not the type to learn all the ins and out of her PC. What she wants to do is roll a d20 and look at her character sheet to see what to add to the roll. I've given her Activated abilities before, but she never used them unless someone else reminded her.


Assuming ToB is out (the good stuff), look at PHB2 and the weapon supremacy/mastery line.

I'll take a look. (Away from books at the moment.)


War Hulk 4 (Miniatures Handbook) gives an always active form of cleave [Passive Effect]

I'll look, but I don't know about making that drastic of a change. She probably wouldn't notice, but I don't know. And I've been trying to encourage her to take more interest in her PC. (It hasn't worked very well...)


Knockback feat (Races of Stone) gives a Bullrush on every hit [Triggered Effect, but almost always triggered]

*thinking* On one hand, that would work. On the other, that's another thing she would need to remember to roll.


So I would suggest changing it to a Goliath with Mountain Rage(gains +2 Str & Large size in addition to Rage during rage) to qualify for the above 2 options.

I can't change her race.


Based on the fact that the player is willing to use rage, I didn't think it was too far-fetched to use boosts, as well.

I can put her attach and damage with and without Rage (and with and without Power Attack) on her character sheet, so all she has to do is look at the correct line. Multiple boosts (that aren't usable at-will) which do different things would be too much.


First thing that comes to mind is Incarnum. Two levels in Totemist can be just gross in a lot of builds even if you're not using natural attacks or juggling essentia between melds, and there's a number of totem binds that give passive-ish abilities.

I'm of two minds... I like Incarnum and have played a Totemist (as has the Warlock player). You are correct, there are some good passives. I'd have to look to see which would work for her.


If the player doesn't want to have to keep track of what they have shaped every day, maybe they'd be fine with having just a couple melds that they wear all the time;

That's what we'd do.


maybe the option to shift essentia could get the player to start working with a wider variety of game mechanics.

She isn't at all interested in that.


There is a charging feat for half orcs called Headlong Rush .
If Krunky the barbarian has a very high armour class you could consider reckless rage feat .
If she does not have enough armour something as simple as dodge and mobility feats would help alot .
Dirty fighting feat gives an extra 1d4 damage .

Thanks.

[Sian]

This. The player in question likes playing, but she is not the type to learn all the ins and out of her PC. What she wants to do is roll a d20 and look at her character sheet to see what to add to the roll. I've given her Activated abilities before, but she never used them unless someone else reminded her.

Which is why i suggest focusing heavily on reactive abilities such as the aforementioned, where instead of her using her AC, she gets the option (after learning that it hits) of rolling an attack and use that number instead, instead of rolling Reflex or Will Saves she rolls a Concentration check etc.

The number of maneuvers that you could have access to of that type is somewhat limited, but with careful picks from the character creator, Its possible.

[Kesnit]

Which is why i suggest focusing heavily on reactive abilities such as the aforementioned, where instead of her using her AC, she gets the option (after learning that it hits) of rolling an attack and use that number instead, instead of rolling Reflex or Will Saves she rolls a Concentration check etc.

The number of maneuvers that you could have access to of that type is somewhat limited, but with careful picks from the character creator, Its possible.

She'd have to remember that she has the ability and then remember to use it. That's why I am not really inclined to use ToB with her. (I've used it on PCs in other games, and I've had a player use it. I like ToB, but not for this player.)

[Sian]

Tried giving her physical tokens of some kind (Cards are oft used and suggested for ToB maneuvers) so she has a more visual reminder?

[Telonius]

Is Dragon Magazine available as a source? The Chaos Rage feat (DR 326 p.80) is basically practiced spellcaster for Barbarians; treat your Barbarian level as +4 for Rage purposes.

How high is the Barbarian's charisma? Would Frightful Presence (Draconomicon) be an option?

[Extra Anchovies]

How high is the Barbarian's charisma? Would Frightful Presence (Draconomicon) be an option?

Your mention of dragonish stuff reminded me: how about Draconic Aura? If you only take it once you don't even need to worry about switch auras, and the PC could take Dragontouched to improve the aura's power.

[J-H]

If she enjoys playing, but only for the smashing part, and doesn't care about RP or about building her character, why are you doing the work for her? Give her a couple of links and tell her it's her choice as to whether or not she wants to invest 30 minutes to an hour reading about her options and making choices for herself. Unless this player is a 10 year old, a little sister, or your wife, you shouldn't be holding her hand and doing all the work for her.

[Demidos]

I would second Knockback, and just simplify it to a bull rush on every hit. If she likes smashing, its pretty satisfying to see your enemies go flying with every hit.

[Raenel]

Well, I see that she doesn't weapon spec yet, so there is that. But I would say move here\ up the storm trooper line and maybe improved crit? You said she likes it simple and to the point (specifically a sharp, soon to be bloody one), so you could also do feats like reckless rage, or frozen berserker or any of the other 10 or so feats that modify rage

[ExLibrisMortis]

If even minor activated abilities are out of the question, how about a really fancy static boost, like lycanthropy? Stay in hybrid form forever, enjoy stat boosts and some secondary natural weapons. I mean, Weapon Specialization is a thing, but this is more fun :smallbiggrin:.

Or, how about a few levels in Occult Slayer, to tie in with Mage Slayer? It doesn't do much, but it's full base attack, and grants immunity to mind-affecting effects at level 5, plus nondetection and a form of arcane sight. Frees up some WBL to do other tricks, perhaps.

[Kesnit]

Tried giving her physical tokens of some kind (Cards are oft used and suggested for ToB maneuvers) so she has a more visual reminder?

That still requires her to (1) remember she has them and (2) read them and pick the one she wants to use.


How high is the Barbarian's charisma? Would Frightful Presence (Draconomicon) be an option?

Her CHA is 8 with no ranks in Intimidate.


If she enjoys playing, but only for the smashing part, and doesn't care about RP or about building her character, why are you doing the work for her? Give her a couple of links and tell her it's her choice as to whether or not she wants to invest 30 minutes to an hour reading about her options and making choices for herself. Unless this player is a 10 year old, a little sister, or your wife, you shouldn't be holding her hand and doing all the work for her.

Mother in law, actually.

I'm doing the work because she does not want to. She wants to play, but has no idea how to go about building a character and has no desire to learn. She knows what she wants to play (the aforementioned "Krunkette SMASH") and is happy with hitting things a lot.


If even minor activated abilities are out of the question, how about a really fancy static boost, like lycanthropy? Stay in hybrid form forever, enjoy stat boosts and some secondary natural weapons. I mean, Weapon Specialization is a thing, but this is more fun :smallbiggrin:.

Hmmm... That's not a bad idea. We do have a third-party book that gives some interesting options for were-creatures.


Or, how about a few levels in Occult Slayer, to tie in with Mage Slayer? It doesn't do much, but it's full base attack, and grants immunity to mind-affecting effects at level 5, plus nondetection and a form of arcane sight. Frees up some WBL to do other tricks, perhaps.

I'll look at it.

[Tanuki Tales]

This far in and no mention of the extend rage feat?

[Fizban]

Powerful Charge and Greater (the feat) gives you a damage bonus on your first attack during a charge, not very strong but damage is damage and you've got Weapon Focus on there. Everyone likes going first so Improved Initiative is always good. Miss chances are dirt cheap, so Blind-Fight is always good. If she's got the dex, Deft Opportunist is a huge attack bonus on AoOs to go with Combat Reflexes. I don't know about Reckless Rage, but there's a Reckless Charge feat that up you to -4/+4. Bashy players enjoy crits, so Improved Crit would probably be appreciated.

I would think that reminders about defensive abilities would be less patronizing than others. Say, some luck feats for rerolling failed saves, then when a save is failed you just go "hey you've still got a reroll" and it gets used. But that's still more effort.

[Honest Tiefling]

I'm going to double down on the template idea. It's...Not legal, but I've played with many a Krunkette and they often enjoy playing monsters. I would however, give her a short, short, short list to choose from. (From my experience, the Krunkette, much like her male counterpart, is often picky with appearances!)

So...Here's a short list I suggest:
Half-Dragon
Stonechild
Were-Something

I wish there was an equivilant to Dragon Discple that didn't focus on spellcasting, it does provide many bonuses, most of which are easy to remember or to put onto the character sheet. How do you feel about homebrew?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A double-casting of polymorph any object could give her some big physical boosts and a few new special abilities, along with some bonus feats, movement modes, and so on. A raging barbarian hydra would be a terror to behold.