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Rossebay
2016-07-29, 01:10 PM
I don't know what it is, I really don't. For years, I've been playing D&D, 3.5, Pathfinder, 4.0, 5.0. I love the game, it's endlessly enjoyable for me. However, I've always had this bad habit. Aside from one of my characters, a sorcerer in 3.5, I've just had the bad habit of wanting to switch characters. It feels like every week or two, I'm wanting to play something else. It didn't always have a justification with it, and I realize how frustrating for a DM it can be to have a player who can't keep a character. But, I don't know.

This time, the campaign started out with 3 people. It's 5e. Myself (Necromancer), a Warlock, and a Barbarian. But it was a mutual decision between myself and the DM that the Necromancer was going to bog down gameplay a bit. I initiated the conversation about it, but the agreement was there. So I started up a Warlock as well, but made the character completely differently from the other Warlock in the party. Even so, I shouldn't have been so dumb--I started taking over the role of party face, and trivializing encounters with Enchantment spells before the barbarian even got to swing at anything. Ogres killing each other, frost giant jumping off of a cliff, bandits essentially ignoring us, struck a deal with some hags instead of fighting them... I feel like I'm stepping on a lot of toes, but if I wasn't, my character would be actually pointless. Because of that, I feel like the character just isn't very constructive for the game. The concept I built him around wasn't considered for a party dynamic, just from a stance of "is this cool?" He's a deep character, I worked on him for a couple of weeks, but he just doesn't do anything constructive for the other players.

But then, I always feel like that for one reason or another, I suppose. I guess my question is, does anyone else do this? Or, does anyone else know how to stop doing this? I don't know if my characters aren't memorable enough to me. I write up a page or two of backstory, I work on their looks, their tics, their fears... I don't know what else to do to really cement a character for myself. Any tips?

Finally, while DMing does help me with the whole character switching issue, I just don't enjoy actually running a campaign that much, so that's not a viable solution.

hymer
2016-07-29, 01:15 PM
Any tips?

What was it about the sorcerer that kept you there?

Rossebay
2016-07-29, 01:32 PM
What was it about the sorcerer that kept you there?

Y'know, that's what I've been trying to figure out for a couple years now. I couldn't tell you. He wasn't particularly strong, he wasn't a gish (like most characters I've made since,) but even those that were like him in attitude or build didn't really feel like they stuck. I'd played him a few more times since then, and each time was pretty enjoyable, but he's also very spotlight-hogging, and very party-face oriented, two things I wish to avoid doing to my current party.

I guess at the moment, I'm trying to think of it from a party-health standpoint, where in a (now 5 person party), we have 4 characters who avoid melee, and one primary melee who is getting frustrated because he gets knocked out in fights more often than not. I feel bad. I also feel bad for the warlock, because with slightly less damage than the ranger, and no space to be party face, she's getting bored. I know that's my fault, too. But there's been many times in the past that a character was perfectly fine, and I abandoned it for no real good reason.

Aetis
2016-07-29, 01:48 PM
Tell your DM to not let you switch characters.

Honest Tiefling
2016-07-29, 02:03 PM
Your dissappointment from this character seems to stem from not being able to add to the party dynamic. I feel as if the sorcerer was built in such a way that they added to it while in the first group (not useless, but not spotlight hogging). Try making a new one (Your current one just seems plain not viable), but give yourself a challenge. For instance, have the other players give you a concept or role. And then you build it. You seem to enjoy making characters, but if I might be so blunt, get a little carried away. Perhaps if the other players could give you a concept, it'll give you a fun little challenge and try to keep you from making it a one man show.

Also consider asking them for in character hooks. Perhaps having a personal connection to the other characters will also decrease the urge to swap, if only for the roleplay aspect.

If it helps...Perhaps give your character a little miniquest? Work with the DM here, for instance if you need to go kill the brothers of the other ogres who killed your family. Concidentally, they happen to be working for the BBEG of the arc. It might only last 3-5 sessions, but you have a goal in mind and probably should be one your character really wants to get done. They might run off afterwards, but hey, it's a start, right?

Another idea, which I can't really reccomend is...Keep switching. Tell your DM to only let you switch when it is appropriate for the story. For instance, make a druid when trekking through the woods, but the druid leaves to continue their own business when the party does some urban stuff. This will give you an advantage, and I cannot reccomend it as it would be hard to pull off well for both you and your DM. And if you attempt to just play this way, do consult the rest of the party.

Berenger
2016-07-29, 05:52 PM
Ask your DM to let you play a multiclassed Doppelganger or other shapeshifter. That Doppelganger has a completely alien mindset, but happens to be fascinated with people and likes to experiment with different genders, looks, personalities, tactics, moral outlooks etc. from time to time.

nedz
2016-07-29, 06:17 PM
Play a multi-threat character - that is, one who can do several different things.
I've no idea if that is possible in 5E - but it is in most other editions.

Also, focus on the character and not the mechanics.

Vitruviansquid
2016-07-29, 06:24 PM
My guess based on what you said:

You often have problems with how your characters fit into the party. Why not ask your fellow party members to determine the crunch of your character? If your party gives you a niche to fill, then you may be more reluctant to switch characters again because you know your current character is doing an important job.

Fluff-wise, what works for me is to *not* worry too much about things like backstory, appearance, tics, and such. I stick with a character because I'm interested in the potential of that character at first, and later, I have attachment to the character because I have fluff based on what's happened in the game. When you put down so much about your character before the game begins, you crowd out the potential parts of that character you could discover as you play.

Rossebay
2016-07-29, 08:06 PM
Thank you guys. I'd quote and respond to each of you, but it'd just be a rehash each time, I figure. I've definitely told my DM to not let me switch after this. Currently, I'm figuring that with a party as follows:

Warlock (Ranged damage focus), Barbarian (Tank/minor control), Ranger (Ranged damage), Rogue (Damage/support), Druid fits pretty well. Control, healing, second damage sponge. I've made a personal connection with the Rogue, and will likely get along better with the other party members in roleplay than my previous character. I've made this decision by way of asking what people think we're lacking, and the consistent answers have been a tank, and a healer. I also realize we have very little preventative measures for damage, so it seems druid will fit in the best. The only issue I can see here is that the ranger and barbarian might outclass me in terms of nature-relevance, so I suppose I'll try to focus on magical knowledge as much as I can.

Anyway, I'll definitely keep all of this in mind. If anyone else has anything to throw in, I'd be glad to hear it, and everyone's commentary has been helpful. Hopefully I'll stick with this one.

Jay R
2016-07-29, 08:34 PM
My first guess:

If your character is a set of abilities, then there is no emotional hold, beyond serving today's needs.

But if it's a character with likes and dislikes and history and emotion, then you can start to like him or her, totally apart from what's"best" for the party right now.

Second guess: designing new characters is more fun for you than playing one for a long time. "I already know what this build can do. Let's play something else." it's like a jigsaw puzzle after you've put it together.

Quertus
2016-07-29, 08:35 PM
To put it in 3.x terms, I need to "take a 20" to create a character I enjoy playing. So I enjoy playing in lots of 1-shots until I find a character I enjoy. Then, I like playing that character over and over (and over and over and over) again. Heck, I'd still be playing my signature character, Quertus, if people would allow my epic wizard in their kill-the-goblin adventures. :smallwink: (And he'd be much happier with that than with anything even remotely "CR appropriate").

You said that you've played your favorite Sorcerer since, and still enjoyed the experience. Did you play with the same group - players and/or characters?

Different people key off different things. You say you've tried making characters with similar personalities, and no dice. Have you played other party face characters? Other sorcerers? Did your sorcerer have any really cool gear? Did anything really cool happen to your sorcerer that may have been the trigger?

Tell us the story of your sorcerer. While you are doing so, think about what makes you :smallbiggrin:

Honest Tiefling
2016-07-29, 09:04 PM
The only issue I can see here is that the ranger and barbarian might outclass me in terms of nature-relevance, so I suppose I'll try to focus on magical knowledge as much as I can.

I don't know 5e at all, so is there something like the aid another for skill checks? Magical knowledge, unless the warlock has it, seems like a good idea anyway, but I felt like I had to ask.

2D8HP
2016-07-29, 09:07 PM
I don't know what it is, I really don't. For years, I've been playing D&D, 3.5, Pathfinder, 4.0, 5.0. I love the game, it's endlessly enjoyable for me. However, I've always had this bad habit. Aside from one of my characters, a sorcerer in 3.5, I've just had the bad habit of wanting to switch characters. It feels like every week or two, I'm wanting to play something else.....In the 1970's and 80's that was usually how we played, at least at the tables I played at. The vast majority of our PC's never made it to second level. Even when a PC survived, as often as not the few of us who had "living" PC's would still roll up new one's, so the party could start together, and it just didn't make sense for any PC to risk the Dungeon again. Bilbo Baggins didn't go looking for other dragons! For the most part, we knew "The Hobbit" cartoon, but the heros of multiple adventures Swords and Sorcery stories were something we found later.
If no one minds, why worry?

Zman
2016-07-29, 10:08 PM
Firstly, thank your DM for doing that, can't say It'd fly at my table. Actually,mth standing rule is if a character dies you start with half the XP of the highest XP party member, and if you voluntarily want to make a new character you get half your current character's XP. In 5e, you're always relevant and catch up fairly quickly, but there is always an incentive not to die or create a new character. And always a risk of half your XP for death.

Could it be that you are playing characters like a set of game mechanics and aren't investing in the character, as a dynamic living person. Stop viewing the game and group as a set of roles and abilities, play a person and let the mechanics feel secondary. You obviously have a strong mastery of the mechanics of the game, possibly too strong, everything is quantified and loses the wonderment you had of playing a flashy sorcerer those years ago.

What if you played a character, pick a personality, make them real, and build the mechanics to fit the character. Don't worry about optimized, it's 5e, you'll still be plenty relevant.


Alternatively, have you considered being a DM? Obviously you have a good system mastery, and as a DM you'll be playing multiple characters every session!

jaappleton
2016-07-29, 10:44 PM
I used to suffer from this quite a bit. I've gotten better, but... I'm not cured.

I find a good way to mitigate it is to have moments which create an attachment to your character. If you keep switching all the time, it's not possible for your character to start having truly heroic, awesome moments that you'll want to tell other players about later. If you keep switching, you can't become amazingly proud of that character and what you accomplished with it.

And a little bit of that actually relies on the DM to give you the opportunity to shine. But it's also on you to play the character long enough to where the DM bothers to shine that light on you. After all, why should the DM bother if to give you the opportunity to feel truly awesome if you're going to abandon that character so quickly, as you often have?

Now, sometimes, you SHOULD do something about your character. I had a Barbarian once that was well optimized, that also had great shining moments, but it was in an unoptimized party. I was stepping on some toes, so I retired the character so the others could shine, too. I went for a Lore Bard so I could fulfill the support role, which enables me to shine whenever the others do, since I'm helping them get there.

Rossebay
2016-07-29, 11:09 PM
To put it in 3.x terms, I need to "take a 20" to create a character I enjoy playing. So I enjoy playing in lots of 1-shots until I find a character I enjoy. Then, I like playing that character over and over (and over and over and over) again. Heck, I'd still be playing my signature character, Quertus, if people would allow my epic wizard in their kill-the-goblin adventures. :smallwink: (And he'd be much happier with that than with anything even remotely "CR appropriate").

You said that you've played your favorite Sorcerer since, and still enjoyed the experience. Did you play with the same group - players and/or characters?

Different people key off different things. You say you've tried making characters with similar personalities, and no dice. Have you played other party face characters? Other sorcerers? Did your sorcerer have any really cool gear? Did anything really cool happen to your sorcerer that may have been the trigger?

Tell us the story of your sorcerer. While you are doing so, think about what makes you :smallbiggrin:

Hahaha. Uhh, he was a human sorcerer, and it was my second campaign. It was the character I learned the 3.5 rules really well with, rolled my biggest 20's, first cast fireball (and on a bunch of weak mobs, no less), so I don't know. We were young, this had to be six or seven years ago, so the roleplay was weak, if there. The feat Fearless was nice, and I certainly played the character to type. I'm not sure I could describe him as party face, but... Again, our entire group was young, so we were pretty lame on roleplay. Most social situations were solved with absurdly high diplomacy rolls, but in the times I've played him since, given that we're not all just yelling over one another trying to make it through a session? I don't think it'd work out properly. That, and I'd definitely be stepping on toes again if I rolled him up.



I used to suffer from this quite a bit. I've gotten better, but... I'm not cured.

I find a good way to mitigate it is to have moments which create an attachment to your character. If you keep switching all the time, it's not possible for your character to start having truly heroic, awesome moments that you'll want to tell other players about later. If you keep switching, you can't become amazingly proud of that character and what you accomplished with it.

And a little bit of that actually relies on the DM to give you the opportunity to shine. But it's also on you to play the character long enough to where the DM bothers to shine that light on you. After all, why should the DM bother if to give you the opportunity to feel truly awesome if you're going to abandon that character so quickly, as you often have?

Now, sometimes, you SHOULD do something about your character. I had a Barbarian once that was well optimized, that also had great shining moments, but it was in an unoptimized party. I was stepping on some toes, so I retired the character so the others could shine, too. I went for a Lore Bard so I could fulfill the support role, which enables me to shine whenever the others do, since I'm helping them get there.

You know, I thought the same thing. I really did want to make that bard, but again, I'd be taking up party face, and I'd be edging the Rogue out on his skillmonkey space. After all, a half-elf lore bard gets quite a few skills... I wanted to make a simple support/buff/healing bard, it was so tempting.
You're right, though. And I was growing attached to my last character, but I was taking up a few too many party roles. I'm thinking this druid will be far more unique in the party, or, hoping, and hoping that I can support the party where they need it in combat while maintaining interesting and, more importantly, inclusive roleplay.

@Honest Tiefling, there is, there's a cantrip I can use called Guidance, that'll let me participate in the skill checks of others without competing with them for spotlight or effectiveness. Thanks for the reminder!

Finally, @2D8HP, they do mind. It took some talking with the DM to even make this last switch, and I know I won't be allowed to switch in the future, for this campaign, but the urge being there is what scares me.

Herobizkit
2016-07-30, 05:42 AM
My suggestion would be to stop trying to play what fits and play what you want. ^_^

Aside: Bard or Druid is how you win D&D, so go nuts. Both classes are a delight to play. So's straight-up Cleric.

goto124
2016-07-30, 07:55 AM
Could it be that you are playing characters like a set of game mechanics and aren't investing in the character, as a dynamic living person. Stop viewing the game and group as a set of roles and abilities, play a person and let the mechanics feel secondary. You obviously have a strong mastery of the mechanics of the game, possibly too strong, everything is quantified and loses the wonderment you had of playing a flashy sorcerer those years ago.

Anyone in this thread have suggestions for players who are very keen on RP, keep writing up personalities and backstories for a hundred different PCs, and just can't wait to try them all?

I'm not one of them, I'm very dry on ideas and have equally few PCs* :smallbiggrin: I have friends with that problem, though.


* They are not well-developed. I never managed a game where I could make whatever semblance of personality they had matter without disrupting the game.