[PF]Avenger Vigilante Whip Build

[Foxman778]

As the title says, I'm looking for assistance with a a whip build for an Avenger Vigilante. I know one of the recent books came out with a talent for whip users but it wasn't on the PFSRD when I checked. I want to know if the talent is even useful or if I'm better off with other things. So I'm looking for help with my idea.

Half-Elf Avenger Vigilante
25 point-buy
Looking for a build from level 1-12

[Serafina]

You have a build idea? One that focuses around optimizing a single weapon, feat, type of attack or other thing? Great!
Step #1: Go to Archives of Nethys, click on "Search (http://archivesofnethys.com/Search.aspx)", click "check all" and enter the appropriate search-term. (In this case, "Whip)
Step #2: Read over the results. Look for interesting combinations and stacking effects.
Step #3: Put these things together.
Step #4: Don't forget to also be competent at some other things, pumping all your resources into one trick might not always be a good idea.


So, what can we actually do with a Whip?
First off, a Whip has plenty of reach (15 feet), but doesn't actually threaten. Normally it can only deal nonlethal damage, but Whip Mastery fixes that. Improved Whip Mastery (http://archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Improved%20Whip%20Master y) lets you threaten with a 10 foot reach, which is decent (most reach-weapons get that, yours is better because you also threaten adjacent squares). So that's already decent if you want a reach-build.
What other tricks can we do?
Well, the Vigilante can also take the "Take Em Alive" Talent. When you deal nonlethal damage (which you can do with a whip), it adds +1 to attack and damage, scaling up to +5. There's some other non-lethal damage optimization, such as the Enforce (http://archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Enforcer)r feat (make an Intimidate-check whenever you inflict nonlethal damage on someone).
Alternatively, Calistra's Poisoned Lash lets you apply poison to a whip. This does not stack with the above talent, and poison is generally not that great, but it's an option.
Whips also support several combat maneuvers. Furys Snare (http://archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Fury%27s%20Snare) is crap, don't take it (it requires you to drop your weapon, you don't want that). Serpent Lash (http://archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Serpent%20Lash) (Greater (http://archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Greater%20Serpent%20Lash )) allows you to Disarm/Trip/Reposition two(three) enemies with a standard action, which is pretty good - but you still should invest into the appropriate combat maneuvers, obviously. Greater Whip Mastery (http://archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Greater%20Whip%20Mastery ) prevents you from ever dropping your whip due to this, and also allows you to Grapple with it.
If you want to trip enemies, the Chain Master (http://archivesofnethys.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Chain%20Master) trait is just a straight +2 to the check.


I'll try to put together an actual build tomorrow. As a preliminary:
You'll want Whip of Vengeance, Lethal Grace and probably Take Em Alive as your Talents. Unkillable is very good and every Avenger should take it. Vital Punishment can work if you're more focused on attacks of opportunity. Favored Maneuver and Combat Skill can provide additional feats.
As a potential trick, you might want to go for a 1-level dip into Brawler to get Martial Flexibility, and select feats for the combat maneuvers you want on the fly using martial flexibility. This works especially well with the Barroom Brawler (http://archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Barroom%20Brawler) feat, and potentially with Extra Martial Flexibility.

[Serafina]

Okay then, an actual Build. Half Elf Avenger Vigilante, up to level 12. I'm assuming Combat Stamina and Combat Tricks are in play, as it really should for any full-BAB class (or even in general).

You should take the alternate racial trait Ancestral Arms to get Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Whip) in place of Skill Focus. You also should trade Multitalented (which does very little to nothing for you) for Blended View, giving you Darkvision.

For ability scores, you have a few options. The racial increase goes into Dexterity either way.
For ideal combat performance, Strength 14, Dexterity 18, Constitution 14, Intelligence 12, Wisdom 10, Charisma 13.
Alternatively, Strength 14, Dexterity 17, Constitution 14, Intelligence 14, Wisdom 8, Charisma 14. This increases your skills substantially. You can lower one 14 to 13 to raise Wisdom back to 10, if you like.

Level Progression: 6 levels of Vigilante, 2 levels of Brawler, 4 more levels of Vigilante. Favored class goes into Vigilante, you can either take the hit points, the skill points or if that's your main goal, the disguise bonus with it.

For Feats:
1: Weapon Finesse 3:Enforcer 4 (retraining): Dirty Fighting 5: Agile Maneuvers 7: Serpent Lash 8(Bonus): Greater Serpent Lash 9: Improved Trip 11: Greater Trip
Alternatively: 8(Bonus): Improved Trip 9: Greater Tip 11: Combat Reflexes

For Vigilante Talents:
2: Whip of Vengeance, 4: Lethal Grace: 6: Unkillable 10: Take Em Alive 12: Vital Punishment

For Social Talents:
Really, that depends on your preference. You can go the socialite route (Renown and it's improvements), you can go for Many Guises and it's improvements, you can focus on skills, or anything else and mix and match as you can.

Oh, and make sure your Whip is a Sapping (http://archivesofnethys.com/MagicWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Sapping) one, it's an additional 2D6 nonlethal damage for only a +1 bonus.



So, what does this build actually do?
You get to fight from 15 feet away, and threaten from 10 feet away (and occasionally from 15 feet). The 10 feet range is important for flanking, which will provide a +4 bonus to combat maneuvers for you.
Your main trick consists of tripping enemies at that range, two to three at a time. Thanks to Agile Maneuvers you can do this to larger enemies when needed. Ultimately, this will provoke an attack of opportunity from them to which you get to apply Vital Strike - thanks to the combat trick of Whip Mastery, this can actually deal 4D6 damage before bonuses.
When you don't do that, you can also use Martial Flexibility to instead get better at Disarming or Repositioning, or just to get ahead of your current feat progression, or grab some other combat feat that grabs your attention.
If you go for actual damage, you have Enforcer and thus get to intimidate each enemy you hit, potentially frightening them (alas, whips do not have a high crit range so it will be rare).
In addition to that, you do get of course all the normal social stuff the Vigilante gets, albeit two levels behind.



In theory, you can drop two more vigilante levels (and Unkillable) for two fighter levels, and grab extra feats. Barroom Brawler gives you an extra martial flexibility and allows you to use it as a swift action. Combat Reflexes works well with your reach and Vital Punishment (though you only get that bonus damage once). Improved Vital Strike ups your whip damage to 6D6 (still only on one attack per turn).
Or you could drop the Brawlers flexibility and instead take two Fighter levels, giving you one extra feat. Or two if you go Lore Warden and replace Dirty Fighting with the free Combat Expertise it grants. This is decent in a lot of ways, but you might prefer the Brawlers flexibility.