Does the sniping penalty to hide come from being in the same place?

[Melkior]

I have a warlock//rogue character who is going to be taking Blend into Darkness(swift action to hide within 10 feet of magical darkness, DotU) and Fly by Attack. I believe the logic of the sniping penalty is that you are hiding in the same place as you just shot from, making it difficult. So if I move, sneak attack, move, and then hide, or shoot, move, hide, do I have a good argument for ignoring the penalty?

[Sliver]

The penalty doesn't come just due to staying in the same location. In order to hide you need to break line of sight and not be observed. If you move into a new hiding location while being observed, your opponent might not see you, but know where you are, and that would negate the hiding spot. If you can get around the restriction of not being observed in order to hide, then yes, moving to a new hiding location would be enough to get a new hide check without the sniping penalty (but may incur movement speed penalties). Then again, if you don't need to be observed, your original location may be good enough.

[lord_khaine]

No, i dont think you have a good argument for that.
The sniping penalty comes when you want to attack while hidden, then immediatly hide again. So as such you cant move after you had just attacked, you need to remain in the same spot you were in while attacking.

And as sliver points out, when you want to make a new hide check, then you need to be out of line of sight. So unless you got hide in plain sight from somewhere, then this isnt doable the way you want to.

[Melkior]

Fly by attack /does/ let me move after just attacking, and i don't need that move action to hide either because I hide as a swift action. Blend into shadow also removes the need for being unobserved and in cover or concealment so long as I am within 10 feet of magic darkness. I intend to hAve darkness invoked on an earring I wear or a pet bird trained to orbit me at close range.

[LTwerewolf]

When moving at a speed greater than one-half but less than your normal speed, you take a -5 penalty. It’s practically impossible (-20 penalty) to hide while attacking, running or charging.

You are doing these things in the same round, therefore the penalty applies. More than one penalty can apply as well, and what you're suggesting would not only not ignore the first penalty, but likely get you another one for speed.

[D.M.Hentchel]

There is no point in sniping in this case. You can simply fly-by, attack, use blend into the shadows, then hide.

Attacking while attempting to hide suffers a -20 penalty, but because you can hide while being observed you simply fail this check and hide afterwards. Opponents might be able to logically deduce the square you are in, but you still have total concealment (assuming they don't spot you). The DM might bestow circumstance bonuses to the spotter for looking for you in the right square (but remember they take a -1 penalty for each 10 ft. between you) +2 or +4 would be standard.

Compare this to flying past someone stabbing them, then using a Quickened Invisibility to hide, it's the same concept.

[Duke of Urrel]

There is no point in sniping in this case. You can simply fly-by, attack, use blend into the shadows, then hide.

Attacking while attempting to hide suffers a -20 penalty, but because you can hide while being observed you simply fail this check and hide afterwards.

I basically agree with this.

Keep in mind that sniping specifically applies to hiding after you make a ranged attack. It does not apply to hiding after you make a mêlée attack.

I also agree that it's possible for enemies to pinpoint your location without actually seeing you. This happens when you hide without actually moving from one space to another, which I believe you can do if you have concealment where you are (or if you otherwise fulfill the requirements of the special ability that you use to hide). Of course, if you come out of hiding while you attack – which is likely, because hiding while attacking imposes a -20 penalty on your Hide check – then you must also be able to hide in plain sight in order to go into hiding again after you attack. But if you can pull this off, you can hide and gain all the benefits of being unseen: the 50% miss chance imposed on enemies' attacks, the +2 bonus on your attack rolls, and the ability to treat your targets as flat-footed, so that they can't add any Dexterity bonus to their Armor Class.

I believe you can make a Hide check without moving in the tactical sense, that is, without leaving one game square and entering another. However, I believe you must take a move action to make this Hide check, even if you don't actually move. This follows the rule that you make a Hide check while "as part of movement" (with no penalty if you move up to one-half your speed or with a penalty if you move farther) or "while attacking, running, or charging," but under no other explicitly stated conditions, even though the Hide check itself represents no action at all except in the case of sniping, in which case it is a move action.

I impose a house rule that you can't make a Hide check while you take a five-foot step, because making a Hide check either shortens or penalizes your speed, which I believe is functionally the same as the hampering effect of difficult terrain. Many other commentators take a dim view of this rule of mine, however.

[Melkior]

Thanks for the replies. I'd just like to clarify that I am using ranged attacks (sneak attack eldritch blast to be specific). From what I'm getting here, It seems as if there isn't a total consensus, but most people are saying I can attack, move, and then swift action hide without the -20. But I would take the -5 penalty if I am flying around at 5 feet less than full speed. I did think the movement penalty was for when you hide as part of a move, which I'm not doing, but I suppose an occasional -5 wouldn't kill the build if I'm wrong about this.