Eldritch Knight Mage Hunter (L8)

[Endal]

Hey there everyone. I've got an Eldritch Knight that I'm putting together as a Mage Hunter. The character is based off of my first D&D character I ever rolled about 20 years ago. Normally I would just put a character together and call it good, but I wanted to get some opinions on my choices for him.

His background is that of a Mage Bounty Hunter who hunts down rogue mages who are disrupting the order of the world. He works with an Order that we created for the group called Followers of the Grey Flame, who are a Lawful Neutral order that is working to bringing balance to the magical natures of the world.

I'll just go over the stuff that's not stock for an Eldritch Knight like spells and stuff, but I would love some suggestions for the build.

Race: Human (Variant for the extra skill/feat)
I chose this race because of the extra skill and feat that the race gives. While I don't have Darkvision, I plan on fixing that with my L8 spell that I can choose from any pool and get the Darkvision spell.

Ability Scores (I got these rolls in front of my DM, the L8 bonuses are already added in)
STR 18 +4
DEX 13 +1
CON 16 +3
INT 16 +3
WIS 14 +2
CHA 12 +1

Feats:
Mage Slayer
This goes without saying, he's a mage hunter so this is pretty much required.

Resilient (WIS)
Most spells that attack me by mages will be countered by Wisdom, this brings my Wis save up to a 6, so that's very useful.

Heavy Armor Mastery
Damage mitigation on most enemies, and this brought my Str up to 18, so double bonus.

Sentinel
My goal on the character is to maintain combat with his foe and Sentinel keeps his targets close by for close action spells.


Skills:
Athletics
A good solid skill for a fighter and I figure it will help get around many of the obsticles a mage may put in my way.

Arcana
Obviously a useful skill for a mage hunter.

Investigation
To help with the detective work of hunting down my prey.

Insight
Always useful when speaking with NPCs and Players alike to make sure there's no BS.

Perception
Again, a utility skill, fairly obvious and useful to have.


Spells:
Shocking Grasp
Touch spell that can take away the target's reaction abilities, coupled with my Sentinel feat, this locks a target in with them unable to do anything.

Green-Flame Blade
I will cast this with pretty much every attack. Extra damage that can bypass magical effects.

Magic Missile
Long-range attack. It doesn't do a lot of damage, but I have uses for this spell in the future that I'm hoping will be very useful. Also, I can use

Protection from Evil and Good
Useful spell when fighting the undead and various things that a mage may be able to summon or use to protect themselves. My only issue is that this is a concentration spell, but it should be fine.

Shield
Extra AC as a reaction that takes effect before the attack hits. Best mitigation is to not take the damage in the first place!

Absorb Elements
More mitigation against most damage types and a bit of extra damage.

Darkvision
Utility for dark areas, these are frequent and a burden for humans.

Knock
Another Utility to get past magically bared doors. It gives off a siren's call that I'm coming in, but I gotta' get past that door!

[the secret fire]

Since you have the luxury of starting off at level 8, I would suggest that EK 5/Wizard 3 (pick the school you like best) is more fun to play, and arguably more powerful, as well. You have a much better spell list than a straight EK 8 with the same number of spell slots (you are actually ahead of the EK in terms of spell slot progression - you will get slots as a 5th level caster at EK 6), plus the wizard school benefit, arcane recovery (two extra spell slots/day) and ritual casting (which means a "free" familiar, among other things). You are out two ASIs, but both of your classes will pick up an ASI at the next level, so you're not exactly behind the eight ball there. The main thing you lose from EK progression is War Magic, which I think is worth the trade-off considering the advantages.

Maybe it's just me, but when I think of a "mage hunter", I think of someone who knows the wizards' ways as only a wizard can.

[Endal]

I was looking into something like this, but the other benefit of the fighter is they get 2 extra Ability Score / Feat boosts. Also, I want him to be more of a spellblade than as a spellcaster. I have a couple other people in my group who were in the order as well (new players that I'm apprenticing), one of them is a Sorcerer, so he should be able to clear those other gaps.

My biggest thought on not dual-classing, though was that I wanted to be sure to keep my spells all as utility spells except for my three attacks (one of which is very situational). Also, I've always been Sword and Board for this character. Originally he was a 2e Paladin, but the group we're going with is all Neutral, so I didn't want to fully recreate him.

[Michael7123]

I'm playing a Mage slayer right now. He's only level 4, but he has a fairly similar build.

My only advice for now would be to swap out green flame blade and go for booming blade instead. That, and swap out the sentinel feat for a +2 bonus to strength. You won't always be fighting people you need to lock down in combat, and having a strength score of 20 will always be useful.

Unless of course you have some way of starting out with a magic item that puts your strength above 20. Then maybe you should go for that.

[the secret fire]

My biggest thought on not dual-classing, though was that I wanted to be sure to keep my spells all as utility spells except for my three attacks (one of which is very situational).

If utility magic is what you're after, getting wizard levels should be a no-brainer. It is not the wizard but the EK who is largely restricted to damage spells given the extremely limited number of utility spells on the evocation and abjuration lists.

Play what is fun for you, but your description of what you want to do as a spellcaster suggests to me that you do, in fact, want a few wizard levels while being mainly a fighter.

[Corran]

My biggest thought on not dual-classing, though was that I wanted to be sure to keep my spells all as utility spells except for my three attacks (one of which is very situational). Also, I've always been Sword and Board for this character. Originally he was a 2e Paladin, but the group we're going with is all Neutral, so I didn't want to fully recreate him.
Since you are going S&B, you could consider having dex as your main stat. Sure, athletics loses some steam, and your AC will be lower (by 1 if you go with halfplate, or by 2 if you go with breastplate for stealth) unless you spend a feat on medium armor master (in which case you could have the same AC as with a plate guy and you would also not have disadvantage on stealth checks). But this way you would have much better dex saves, which is useful against many area effects coming from spells. Worse aathletics, better dex skills, worse str save, better initiative, you get the picture. But the big deal in your case would be the better dex save, most of all. Unless you are thinking of including grappling tactics to your repertoir, I would suggest giving the dex build some thinking (unless ofc you prefer high str for visual-fluff reasons). But also, being able to be stealthy could be a huge deal, if you dont have any other lobsters in the party, having an all-stealthy group changes the dynamic of the game in your party's favor.
You build looks solid nevertheless.

ps: Have a look at the oath of the ancients paladin, if you already haven't. I mean, the fluff-lore blends well enough with the role your party would have in the world, serving an order that tries to keep balance and all that, and the class has some built-in mage slaying (aura of protection, aura of warding) that you could find very useful (you could even throw some bard at some point for a more all around and with better utility spell list, and for better counterspelling too). Just a suggestion. Not that the EK is a bad way of going about it.

[Sir cryosin]

If you're going sword and board slip out heavy armor master or War caster even if you're not going sword and board still swap out heavy armor Master for warcaster other than that that looks like a pretty good build I would somehow try and get my hands on booming blade pick it up with magic initiative

[Endal]

If you're going sword and board slip out heavy armor master or War caster even if you're not going sword and board still swap out heavy armor Master for warcaster other than that that looks like a pretty good build I would somehow try and get my hands on booming blade pick it up with magic initiative

This is a GREAT idea. War Caster definitely makes this a much easier route for him. My only minor concern is that the HAM gave me a +1 to Str which I'm using to get me up to 18. That tied with the mitigation made it a great feat for me... I may have to consider this option, though since that's definitely something that would be useful to me.

[somehownotsingl]

You might consider picking up a few levels of Bladesinger. It would require you to switch to Elf or Half-Elf (unless DM waves RAW race requirement), and it would lock you into a DEX build. If those are deal breakers, never mind Other people have mentioned the benefits of a small wizard dip, but Bladesinger abilities in particular would really help a build designed to wade into combat to reach/deal with mages quickly -- in particular temporarily higher AC and faster speed. Plus, lots of utility spells and more cantrip selections to pick up more of those tasty SCAG cantrips. EK 6/BS 2 would be a great start. I might consider going as far as 5 levels in BS, but that will be a conceptual choice.

[Lollerabe]

I've got a similar concept - a rock gnome EK soon to be lvl 6, in our campaign every caster has mana (soul shards) within them which can be harvested and used for creating magic items etc.
My lil guy is part iron golem and his body run on mana, so if he dosent get that sweet mana his body stops working and he eventually dies.

Long story short he is essentially a crack addict and only dead casters provide crack.

I've gone for GWM (allowed for small races by homebrew) and a Str bump but plan to pick mageslayer at lvl 8 (though the feat gets buffed a bit at our table).

Now if I were to make an optimized EK/antimage I'd do the following:
Go sword and board and pick the duelist fightstyle, with your stats you are looking at 1d8 + 6(5) that's a sweet number.
Grab warcaster asap, besides removing casting restrictions and making sure your concentration never breaks it makes your OAs the strongest in the game (next to the rogue perhaps)due to throwing out BB or GFB.
Consider sentinel, in conjunction with warcaster creatures can't escape you without eating a warhammer coated in GoT like wildfire (BB would be better when attacking fleeing targets, but it depends on how your table rules on warcaster+sentinel regarding OAs).
Make sure you take at LEAST 7 levels in EK, the warmagic feature coupled with SCAG cantrips makes the EK the best tank in the game in my opinion. Not only do you got shield, absorb and protection from g/e, every second attack you make is enhanced with fire/thunder damg. In practice that means a lvl 7+ EK shouldn't ever get ignored by monsters, the guy splashing wildfire with every second hit? Yup he needs to die asap.
Multiclass into wizard after 7(or 8 for ASI) lvls of EK, once warmagic is online the fighter class dosent do much anymore.
I'd go with abju school for tankiness.
Consider Rock gnome as your race, the racials are to good for an anti Mage to pass up.

TL,DR: 7-8 lvl of EK, warcaster sentinel mageslayer for feats or strength bumps.
Multiclass into wizard so EK 7/8 wiz 13/12
Go rock gnome if you are as awesome as me.
???
Profit.

[Specter]

I wouldn't take Wiz levels until EK7. War Magic makes a big difference in damage output and control with your cantrips.

I also wouldn't take Sentinel. It's not bad, but you already have 4 reaction uses that will be competing against each other all the time (Shield, Abs. Elements, OA, Mage Slayer's OA). Another one might be too much. Remember that without War Caster, you can't cast with a shield.

If your party has a rogue/wizard, you can the lockpicking to them and take something else insread of Knock, like Blur or Invisibility.

But you're on the right track.

[Lollerabe]

As someone playing an EK I have to disagree a bit with specter (although I agree with most he said) the need for using shield, absorb and protection from GE dosent happen THAT often, and I personally think it's damn near impossible to have to many options for your reaction.

Although warcaster (!!) and less so mageslayer are more prudent for your concept than sentinel I wouldn't disregard it.

Sentinel provides a bunch of uses outside of just killing casters, and ups your damage by a fair margin. That and the ability to stop casters from using disengage is pretty big, not all casters got misty step etc. if a caster tries to run from you, you stop them dead in their tracks or you blow them up with empowered OAs.

I hope my dm allows retraining of feats fightstyle etc. cause the more I write and talk about the build I suggested in my last post, the more I find my current EK build subpar, un synergetic
and well.. Boring.
The EK dosent make a good GWM class, even less so when your 'heavy weapon' is a versatile 1d10 warhammer.

If you can convince your dm to change the wording in mageslayer from 'when an enemy within 5 feet of you casts a spell, you can make a melee weapon attack against that target as an reaction'
To 'when an enemy within 5 feet of you casts a spell, you can make an attack of opportunity against that target'
You are one happy camper.

[R.Shackleford]

Mage Slayer isn't really that great of a feat for a Mage Slayer. It looks nice on paper but... In practice it really just falls flat.

[Lollerabe]

Agreed, hence why we plan to buff it at my table. Extending the 5 feet to 10 across the board, and replacing the reaction to an opportunity attack does however ramp up its potential a bit.

[Specter]

As someone playing an EK I have to disagree a bit with specter (although I agree with most he said) the need for using shield, absorb and protection from GE dosent happen THAT often, and I personally think it's damn near impossible to have to many options for your reaction.

Although warcaster (!!) and less so mageslayer are more prudent for your concept than sentinel I wouldn't disregard it.

Sentinel provides a bunch of uses outside of just killing casters, and ups your damage by a fair margin. That and the ability to stop casters from using disengage is pretty big, not all casters got misty step etc. if a caster tries to run from you, you stop them dead in their tracks or you blow them up with empowered OAs.

I hope my dm allows retraining of feats fightstyle etc. cause the more I write and talk about the build I suggested in my last post, the more I find my current EK build subpar, un synergetic
and well.. Boring.
The EK dosent make a good GWM class, even less so when your 'heavy weapon' is a versatile 1d10 warhammer.

If you can convince your dm to change the wording in mageslayer from 'when an enemy within 5 feet of you casts a spell, you can make a melee weapon attack against that target as an reaction'
To 'when an enemy within 5 feet of you casts a spell, you can make an attack of opportunity against that target'
You are one happy camper.

It's never bad, but as an EK I've had problems with too many reaction uses. Fighting a wizard and his undead minions, for example, I had to choose between using Shield or keeping my reaction to attack him. When I attacked him due to his casting a spell, I had to give up Absorb Elements on his cone of cold and take full damage. Sentinel would be better if you didn't have so many stuff to do already, e.g. if you took another fighter archetype.

[Slipperychicken]

If you want to hunt mages, then you want range. Think about what will happen when your quarry starts floating around, turns into a bird, or teleports out of reach. Do you want to resort to your backup weapon, or be specialized to put a round worth of crossbow bolts in the guy's skull? If the mage is playing nice and conveniently waiting around for you to beat his head in, then you'll kill him just fine even without mage slayer.

I'd be more concerned with setting up a support mage in the party to counterspell and dispel enemy mages. That's the real mage slayer right there; shut down enemy magic, keep them from casting any more, and let the damage-dealers do their work.


Agreed, hence why we plan to buff it at my table. Extending the 5 feet to 10 across the board, and replacing the reaction to an opportunity attack does however ramp up its potential a bit.

I still wouldn't bother. It doesn't disrupt spellcasting, not even a concentration check for the spell being cast. Nothing about it stops a mage from doing what he does best.

[MrStabby]

If allowed, a Svirfneblin might be a good race from the EE. Being able to take at-will non detection is fantastic for taking down diviners and those who can use detection spells. Admittedly this may be better for an arcane trickster mage hunter than an eldritch knight one.

[Specter]

If you want to hunt mages, then you want range. Think about what will happen when your quarry starts floating around, turns into a bird, or teleports out of reach. Do you want to resort to your backup weapon, or be specialized to put a round worth of crossbow bolts in the guy's skull? If the mage is playing nice and conveniently waiting around for you to beat his head in, then you'll kill him just fine even without mage slayer.

It's not as problematic as it seems. If they Misty Step, you can still attack them as a reaction, and they get to spend the good part of their turn on a cantrip. If they fly, you still get an op. attack as they leave your reach, and they have to to succeed on a disadvantage concentration or fall and waste a spell.

[Slipperychicken]

It's not as problematic as it seems. If they Misty Step, you can still attack them as a reaction, and they get to spend the good part of their turn on a cantrip. If they fly, you still get an op. attack as they leave your reach, and they have to to succeed on a disadvantage concentration or fall and waste a spell.

Only if your PC gets to them first, and even so that's just one reaction attack before the mage can exit his reach. I've had plenty of fights where an enemy mage started flying before even our fastest PCs could close to melee range. A mage played anywhere near his mental scores will try and get out of the way before he gets hit. There are all kinds of spells and powers designed specifically to make life harder for melee attackers. For misty step specifically, one trick I've seen is for a mage to disengage out of melee, then cast it to reach an obscure place.

But the point is, if you're playing a self-styled mage slayer of any sort, you need a better answer to mages who make themselves slippery and will not obligingly wait inside melee range. Good ones include solid ranged options and the means to shut down their magic. A melee-focused mage slayer certainly is viable, but its player needs to prepare for what mages are capable of.

[Lollerabe]

To be honest after a certain level (9+) a high INT caster shouldn't ever lose to a single martial character melee or ranged. But that's besides the point, and I agree - a assassin3/hunter(or battlemaster) X is argueably a stronger 'mageslayer' than a EK regardless of feat selection.

A melee EK should consider lightning lure, AFB but that's a strength save right? So LL + attack, action surge - grapple, pin fx would be a decent rotation for killin a Mage, add in exp retreat as a BA for gettin close.

And yeah even buffed, mageslayer does indeed have the problem you mention, it dosent prevent casters from casting.

[Specter]

Only if your PC gets to them first, and even so that's just one reaction attack before the mage can exit his reach. I've had plenty of fights where an enemy mage started flying before even our fastest PCs could close to melee range. A mage played anywhere near his mental scores will try and get out of the way before he gets hit. There are all kinds of spells and powers designed specifically to make life harder for melee attackers. For misty step specifically, one trick I've seen is for a mage to disengage out of melee, then cast it to reach an obscure place.

But the point is, if you're playing a self-styled mage slayer of any sort, you need a better answer to mages who make themselves slippery and will not obligingly wait inside melee range. Good ones include solid ranged options and the means to shut down their magic. A melee-focused mage slayer certainly is viable, but its player needs to prepare for what mages are capable of.

So, they disengage then move then Misty Step, wasting their entire round? Fine by me. Especially considering I can get close to him again in the next round.

If a Mage Slayer acted on his own in melee, then the results would be lame, indeed. But considering that while you stall the wizard other party members are dealing with lesser minions without fearing a Fireball or laying the smack on him, then it's a pretty good strategy.