Blood Hunter Guide?

[JakOfAllTirades]

I'm working on a Blood Hunter (starting at level 1) for my next character, and wondering if anyone knows of an optimization guide for this class.

It's not like I'm completely lost, but OTOH I'm not 100% sure what kind of build I'd like, and I could use some advice.

[jaappleton]

I'm working on a Blood Hunter (starting at level 1) for my next character, and wondering if anyone knows of an optimization guide for this class.

It's not like I'm completely lost, but OTOH I'm not 100% sure what kind of build I'd like, and I could use some advice.

I've reviewed the class a lot, often considered a build on it. I love the Ghost Slayer archetype.

My biggest issue is the armor. Medium and Light, no Shield proficiency.

To mitigate that, I think a level or two in Monk works wonders. You get Unarmored Defense, which works off Dex and Wisdom. Two key stats already. I'd avoid any Strength build, because it is simply so MAD that way; You'd need Strength, Wisdom, Con, and some Dex (14 for Medium armor, which caps your AC at 16... Not good.) I strongly suggest going Duelist style with a Rapier, or going for an Archery build. If you go Archery, then Crossbow Expert would work wonders.

For an Archery Build, instead of dipping Monk, consider going Rogue instead for Cunning Action. Hiding in the shadows while shooting your crossbow is a great way to handle the lack of Shield proficiency, as you'd have Advantage on attacks while enemies would has Disadvantage because you're hidden. And dipping Rogue gets you expertise in Stealth on top of it.

Going back to a melee build that's dipped Monk, remember that going into Monk nets you a bonus action attack, if you're a melee build. While it may not seem great at first, remember that the bonus attack of Polearm Master is also a d4.



EDIT: The more I think, the better an Archery build it. I believe one of the Blood Curses allows you to ensure a foe can't move, right? A perfect way to keep foes at bay if they're closing in on you, or a squishy ally. Or for just taking a melee foe out of a fight for a turn.

[JakOfAllTirades]

I also have trouble with the Blood Hunter's lack of armor; this class really wants to be a STR-based melee class, but doesn't quite have what it takes.

Although the Monk MC idea is interesting (I never would have thought of that!) I probably won't multi-class if I can help it. I'd rather advance my Blood Hunter abilities as quickly as possible, because the class has a lot to offer. I'm considering the variant human bonus feat to shore up my weak defenses. The question is which feat should I take at 1st level? I've got a number of "imperfect but workable" options. Note that I'm focusing on melee concepts for this character. I haven't chosen a fighting style yet, but I'm leaning away from Archery. I'd like him to be on the front lines if at all possible.

Dual Wielder: I normally wouldn't look at this one (a +2 DEX ASI is better in almost every way) but for the VHuman bonus feat, +2 DEX is off the table. So... Dual Wielder at 1st level, TWF style at 2nd, and the Tough Feat at 4th. I'll be using Crimson Rite twice as often, burning up a lot of my own hit points, so in this case I'd prefer Tough to a +2 CON bump. This is a very aggressive, high risk character concept, but it'll crank out the damage.

Heavily Armored: This gives both a +1 STR and Heavy Armor proficiency, so it makes a STR build possible for the Blood Hunter. Still no shield, but lack of a shield allows Great Weapon Fighting style. And the minor STR bump helps with the MADness problem. My stats for this build are 16/10/14/8/16/10. The problem with this build is that heavy armor which actually improves on medium armor (plus a decent DEX bonus) is probably beyond the means of a starting character. In the short run, this might actually result in a worse AC. Without adding a shield, it might never be superior to medium armor.

Medium Armor Master: It's a given that any Blood Hunter with a DEX build will start with a 16, so why not make the most of it? And VHumans get a bonus skill, so choosing Stealth will make the absolute most of this feat. (Sorry, Perception fanatics.)

[RSP]

I have a BH ready to go for our next campaign. The class leans Offense>Defense and dual wielding increases that quite a bit. Pretty much the "glass cannon" of melee builds, though that's what I'm going with as well.

If going vhuman, I'd probably pick up Mobile over the Dual Wielder feat and just go Dex build with scimitars or short swords. Should allow you to play as a skirmisher rather than a tank.

[JakOfAllTirades]

I have a BH ready to go for our next campaign. The class leans Offense>Defense and dual wielding increases that quite a bit. Pretty much the "glass cannon" of melee builds, though that's what I'm going with as well.

If going vhuman, I'd probably pick up Mobile over the Dual Wielder feat and just go Dex build with scimitars or short swords. Should allow you to play as a skirmisher rather than a tank.

Good idea; I'll have to take a serious look at that.

[jaappleton]

Taking a level of Life Cleric at any point nets you Heavy Armor, since it's a bonus granted by the Domain and not the multiclassing rules. It also gets you the Shield of Faith spell for a +2 bonus to AC, and still keys off Wisdom.

I know you'd said you wanted to avoid multiclassing, but it's only one level and fixes almost all the issues. And starting at level 1 in Cleric also nets you Shield proficiency to boot.

Meanwhile, you could also go Order of the Profane Soul... Warlocks do get Mage Armor, and you use their list. Mage Armor isn't Concentration so you can cast it, and it's on for 8 hours regardless of how often you short rest for your spell slots back. That's 13+Dex Mod. Maximum of 18. That's not terrible.

Going that route, and the Monk multiclassing route, also enables you to wear items like Bracers of Defense if they ever come up.

[spartan_ah]

If we take a look at the mystic you can see that the immortal gets heavy armor and a shield profiecency. I'd say that heavy armored feat likely to give you shield profiecency.
And with VH, you'll get it at first level

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/06/22/why-do-blood-hunters-get-duelist-but-not-shield-proficiency/

[JakOfAllTirades]

Taking a level of Life Cleric at any point nets you Heavy Armor, since it's a bonus granted by the Domain and not the multiclassing rules. It also gets you the Shield of Faith spell for a +2 bonus to AC, and still keys off Wisdom.

I know you'd said you wanted to avoid multiclassing, but it's only one level and fixes almost all the issues. And starting at level 1 in Cleric also nets you Shield proficiency to boot.

Meanwhile, you could also go Order of the Profane Soul... Warlocks do get Mage Armor, and you use their list. Mage Armor isn't Concentration so you can cast it, and it's on for 8 hours regardless of how often you short rest for your spell slots back. That's 13+Dex Mod. Maximum of 18. That's not terrible.

Going that route, and the Monk multiclassing route, also enables you to wear items like Bracers of Defense if they ever come up.

Actually, Warlocks only get Mage Armor via the Armor of Shadows Invocation, not from their spell list. And while Blood Hunters do get access to the Warlock spell list, they don't get the Invocations, so no Mage Armor for them. OTOH, it's available via the Magic Initiate feat from the Sorcerer and Wizard lists; having neither INT nor CHA as a primary (nor secondary) stat doesn't really hurt the Blood Hunter when casting Mage Armor at all, so that would work. And a Blood Hunter with the Greenflame Blade and Booming Blade cantrips (from the same spell lists) would be... interesting.

Yeah, I'm gonna see how that works.

[RSP]

Actually, Mage Armor isn't on the Warlock list but is available to Warlocks as a choice of invocations, which I don't believe Profane Souls get.

[jaappleton]

My sincerest apologies, I could've sword Warlocks got it on their list AND in their Invocations. Obviously I was incorrect. Sorry!

[jaappleton]

Actually, Warlocks only get Mage Armor via the Armor of Shadows Invocation, not from their spell list. And while Blood Hunters do get access to the Warlock spell list, they don't get the Invocations, so no Mage Armor for them. OTOH, it's available via the Magic Initiate feat from the Sorcerer and Wizard lists; having neither INT nor CHA as a primary (nor secondary) stat doesn't really hurt the Blood Hunter when casting Mage Armor at all, so that would work. And a Blood Hunter with the Greenflame Blade and Booming Blade cantrips (from the same spell lists) would be... interesting.

Yeah, I'm gonna see how that works.

Booming Blade would be an alright pickup, not excellent. As you get your second attack at level 5, this means you'll only be hitting with your Crimson Rite dice once, since it takes your Action to perform the Cantrip. And as opposed to two swings of your weapon, and therefore two chances to land a hit, the SCAG Cantrips only allow the one swing.

Although it would be good to have a way of fighting enemies resistant to nonmagical weapons.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Booming Blade would be an alright pickup, not excellent. As you get your second attack at level 5, this means you'll only be hitting with your Crimson Rite dice once, since it takes your Action to perform the Cantrip. And as opposed to two swings of your weapon, and therefore two chances to land a hit, the SCAG Cantrips only allow the one swing.

Although it would be good to have a way of fighting enemies resistant to nonmagical weapons.

With Booming Blade, it's more of a problem at level 5 and beyond. (The same goes for any class that gets a 2nd melee attack.)

With Greenflame Blade, there's a chance of hitting two targets with the same attack, so in some circumstances this might be less of a problem.

Both cantrips have a listed range of 5 feet, so picking either of them up with the Spell Sniper Feat makes them useful with Reach weapons; for a DEX build, that means getting the Whip into play. I wouldn't pick it for a starting feat, but it's an interesting idea for later on. The ability to use either GFB or BB with reach has potential.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Just wanted to thank everyone who chimed in with advice and suggestions above. Our group (short a few members who were ill or or traveling) started Curse of Strahd today and my Blood Hunter character performed rather well. We only had three players; the other two PCs were a Vengeance Paladin and a Moon Druid. We finished the first adventure and made it to 3rd level. At 1st and 2nd level, the Blood Hunter could keep up with them; now the Paladin has his Smite ability, the Druid has Moonbeam, and I've got Rite of the Dawn. So everyone has tons of radiant damage and we're hunting the undead.... Place your bets!

[jaappleton]

Just wanted to thank everyone who chimed in with advice and suggestions above. Our group (short a few members who were ill or or traveling) started Curse of Strahd today and my Blood Hunter character performed rather well. We only had three players; the other two PCs were a Vengeance Paladin and a Moon Druid. We finished the first adventure and made it to 3rd level. At 1st and 2nd level, the Blood Hunter could keep up with them; now the Paladin has his Smite ability, the Druid has Moonbeam, and I've got Rite of the Dawn. So everyone has tons of radiant damage and we're hunting the undead.... Place your bets!

Excellent to hear!

If you don't mind, I would like to hear your thoughts on the class as you progress. Most people I know are aware of the class, but nobody I know has any actual experience playing it. I liken the class to... A Ranger hunts natural enemies, the Blood Hunter goes after the supernatural.

[RulesJD]

I played Blood Hunter (Profane Soul) up to level 8, and it got pretty disgusting. The amount of damage that I could output (especially with BB/GFB + the EK bonus attack ability + Hex + GWM) was insane. Combine with some heal on kill and I wasn't that bad, AC 17 rather than 18 wasn't that big of a problem. The ability to add +Wis to saves as a short-rest reaction was clutch.

You will go down quicker than you might be used to, my setup was the definition of a glass cannon. But it absolutely excelled at it, putting out much higher damage numbers than the Paladin on everything but a lucky Crit Smite.

[JakOfAllTirades]

I played Blood Hunter (Profane Soul) up to level 8, and it got pretty disgusting. The amount of damage that I could output (especially with BB/GFB + the EK bonus attack ability + Hex + GWM) was insane. Combine with some heal on kill and I wasn't that bad, AC 17 rather than 18 wasn't that big of a problem. The ability to add +Wis to saves as a short-rest reaction was clutch.

You will go down quicker than you might be used to, my setup was the definition of a glass cannon. But it absolutely excelled at it, putting out much higher damage numbers than the Paladin on everything but a lucky Crit Smite.

I'm using v1.7 of the Blood Hunter pdf and I think some of the Blood Maledictions have been "nerfed" so I'm not sure how often I'll get to add my WIS bonus to saves. I'm going TWF and Order of the Ghostslayer so at level 5 I'll be making 3 attacks per round with my Rite damage added to them. Against undead it'll be radiant damage with my WIS added to the damage - a good thing in Ravenloft.

Edited to add: This is also a glass cannon character because he'll often invoke his Blood Rite twice for TWF and burn lots of his own HP.

[MrStabby]

I'm using v1.7 of the Blood Hunter pdf and I think some of the Blood Maledictions have been "nerfed" so I'm not sure how often I'll get to add my WIS bonus to saves. I'm going TWF and Order of the Ghostslayer so at level 5 I'll be making 3 attacks per round with my Rite damage added to them. Against undead it'll be radiant damage with my WIS added to the damage - a good thing in Ravenloft.

I hadn't realised it had been redone. When I first saw it I had thought it was pretty typically unbalanced homebrew, but nice to see people revisit it. Glad it is a bit better now.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Yeah, I just reviewed latest version, and the Fending Rite ability now only works against spells which require a DEX save. I don't remember what the original version looked like.

A few other Rites seem to have been removed altogether; I think there used to be a Rite which emulated Dispel Magic and another which allowed Blood Hunters to heal others. Both are gone now.

The current version is available at the DM's Guild on a Pay What You Want basis, which is very update-friendly. Buy it once, and download the updated versions without buying it at full price all over again.