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View Full Version : Pathfinder Constructs & Natrual Attacks- Need a Rules Clarification



thecrimsondawn
2016-07-30, 06:23 PM
Under Building and Modifying Constructs there is This modification enhances a construct’s physical weaponry. This process includes adding actual weapons (such as blades or spiked chains) to the physical structure of the construct or enhancing existing weapons with additional magical properties. Structural changes alter the construct’s damage only. A construct is automatically considered proficient with any weapon added to its structure as a weapon modification. The cost for adding a weapon is determined by the cost of the weapon or weapon enhancement added. The cost for magical enhancements to these weapons is the same as the cost for creating magic weapons as described on page 468 of the Core Rulebook. Performing a weapon modification also requires the Craft Magical Arms and Armor feat.

I am making a human shaped Homunculus and I would like to replace the bite and poison elements of it with a martial weapon. If I was to do this and add extra hit dice to it, would it get extra attacks as its BAB reaches the normal points? Its kinda a gray area since you are attaching these to its body and its sort of its new natural weapons.

thecrimsondawn
2016-07-31, 10:20 AM
Breaking this down into parts makes it even more confusing too.

"This process includes adding actual weapons (such as blades or spiked chains) to the physical structure of the construct or enhancing existing weapons with additional magical properties"
This is saying you are adding real weapons to the construct, however it is being added to their structure and not really being wielded. It is also allowing you to "enchant" them as if they where weapons - something you cant do as normal if you where say - a monk. This bends the rules a bit since constructs are not really living beings and more just a sum of parts.

"A construct is automatically considered proficient with any weapon added to its structure as a weapon modification."
Monsters are always proficient with their natural weapons, so I feel this is a play on that fact meaning that manufactured weapons are meant to be considered a new form of natural attack.

"Structural changes alter the construct’s damage only"
This is the big one. What does this really mean, or rather, what did the creator want to convey by saying this? At face value it sounds like its trying to prevent adding more natural attacks to a single construct, but it could mean more then that. With this sentence, it is saying that no matter how you change the structure (aka, from adding or changing weapons) the only thing that will change is the damage. By its wording, a slam attack would remain a slam attack, only now it may be a slam attack with great swords for flavor. This is still rather vague tho and needs more clarification as this comes after the sentence "A construct is automatically proficient with any weapon added to its structure."

"The cost for adding a weapon is determined by the cost of the weapon or weapon enhancement added. The cost for magical enhancements to these weapons is the same as the cost for creating magic weapons as described on page 468 of the Core Rulebook."
This is where it starts to contradict itself. If you are paying an additional cost for a weapon on enchant, its targeting these weapons as single entities. That is sort of like saying a claw attack (something that is one natural attack and yet counts as two attacks) is now two longsword attacks. Both would need to be enchanted separately, and now it would be two true attacks, OR you could only replace the claws with a single weapon attack. There is nothing on this meaning that I can find either.

I would like to think a construct can give up its natural attacks for BAB based martial weapon attacks using this, but my god, I wish there was someone on top of these things. Can anyone make heads of tails out of this one?

Tuvarkz
2016-07-31, 11:03 AM
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types#TOC-Construct
A construct has the following features.

d10 Hit Die.
Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (fast progression).
Yes, with each HD you add, the BAB increases by 1 and gets iteratives with a weapon (As per character progression rules, though, you're limited to 4 attacks from BAB even if you go above 20 HD)

thecrimsondawn
2016-07-31, 11:25 AM
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types#TOC-Construct
A construct has the following features.

d10 Hit Die.
Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (fast progression).
Yes, with each HD you add, the BAB increases by 1 and gets iteratives with a weapon (As per character progression rules, though, you're limited to 4 attacks from BAB even if you go above 20 HD)

This is the sort of information I am looking for, but at the same time I am trying to find something RAW or RAI on this to bring to the debate. By UMR, any monster that has a martial weapon gets iterative attacks based on its BAB, while natural attacks never change. The issue is how vague this area is on constructs.

Edit: "Proficient with its natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with any weapon mentioned in its entry. "
I guess this is sort of a silver lining in this tho.