Urban fantasies whose authors understand physics?

[gomipile]

Are there any urban fantasy novels or series whose authors understand and take advantage of knowledge of modern science? Think the kinds of stuff that gets done in Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, like Harry and Hermione transmuting a thread into a fullerene nanotube thread.

[tomandtish]

Jim Butcher gives some nods to it in his Dresden Files series.

Not urban fantasy, but he also wrote a Spider-Man novel, "The Darkest Hours", which uses it as well, For example, Spider-Man fights outside his weight so well because his wall-crawling also lets him stick to the ground when he hits, so he can apply more force without being knocked back. Others end up going backwards.

[Cheesegear]

First thought that comes to mind is Ben Aaronovitch's Rivers of London series. Magic is basically a transference of energy from one state to another. It's a good series and I recommend to anyone, anyway.

[gomipile]

First thought that comes to mind is Ben Aaronovitch's Rivers of London series. Magic is basically a transference of energy from one state to another. It's a good series and I recommend to anyone, anyway.

That's not really the type of thing I meant.

I'm fine with the magic itself being traditional fantasy. What I'm interested in is the idea of using magic to create a nonmagical object or effect which then takes advantage of known science to achieve the desired result. Or the use of the author's physics knowledge to predict unintended or intended consequences and side effects of magical goings-on.

[Cheesegear]

What I'm interested in is the idea of using magic to create a nonmagical object or effect which then takes advantage of known science to achieve the desired result.

Yes. I know you meant. That is what happens.


Or the use of the author's physics knowledge to predict unintended or intended consequences and side effects of magical goings-on.

Yes. I know you meant. That is what happens.

[digiman619]

Jim Butcher gives some nods to it in his Dresden Files series.

Not urban fantasy, but he also wrote a Spider-Man novel, "The Darkest Hours", which uses it as well, For example, Spider-Man fights outside his weight so well because his wall-crawling also lets him stick to the ground when he hits, so he can apply more force without being knocked back. Others end up going backwards.

Seconding this. Butcher includes tons of stuff like that, like using channeling the heat in a room to do fire magic, only to then use the now colder air to do ice magic, or the time he had Dresden build what was essentially a giant Faraday Cage around a safehouse to channel hostile magic away.

[Excession]

I think the "Laundry" series by Charles Stross would qualify. Lovecraftian fantasy/horror written by someone that also writes hard science fiction.

[DeadpanSal]

It's probably not what you mean, but Rincewind the wizard is a fantasy character that dreams of normal physics. When he has to conjure up a dragon to save his life, he creates a Boeing 747. When he sees a camera, he guesses it works with photosensitive paper - but finds a tiny homunculus inside with an easel.

Discworld is all about fantasy and our physics being at odds.

[lord_khaine]

First thought that comes to mind is Ben Aaronovitch's Rivers of London series. Magic is basically a transference of energy from one state to another. It's a good series and I recommend to anyone, anyway.

I second this recomendation, it is some really good books.

[Keltest]

Seconding this. Butcher includes tons of stuff like that, like using channeling the heat in a room to do fire magic, only to then use the now colder air to do ice magic, or the time he had Dresden build what was essentially a giant Faraday Cage around a safehouse to channel hostile magic away.

Or when a bad guy used flamethrowers to get around a magical protection against fire by making the ambient heat so high that stuff burned anyway.

[endoperez]

The Engineer Wizard by Glenn Michaels fits this to the T, but it's mediocre to bad as far as the actual writing is concerned, and that's my opinion in polite company.


Some examples:
Magic needs rare materials as a power enhancer/conductor, usually gold or such. A scientist's understanding of what atoms and molecules are rare on the universe's scale is different.
A light-based spell can be used to hear things, because it can be used to measure vibration.
Manipulation of matter can be abused to cause chemical reactions which create explosions, while using less power than is needed for the explosion.


But again, don't expect much from the writing. Or ideas besides the science.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Brandon Sanderson's works often have some really neat in-universe physics behind them when it comes to the magic system, which sorta touches on this. The characters sometimes act like RPG characters, figuring out new ways to use their very specifically limited magical powers. (It stems from his "Three Laws of Magic" concept, which tends towards a very structured magic that possesses its own physics.)

[miner3203]

Brandon Sanderson's stuff, specifically Mistborn and Stormlight Archive. The latter isn't urban, per se (and the former is more of pre-Renaissance-level urban), but it has the physics thing down pat.

Also, if you're more into geometry and mathematics, I've heard about (but not read myself) The Rithmatist, and that seems like a good one as well.

[BlueHerring]

Brandon Sanderson's stuff, specifically Mistborn and Stormlight Archive. The latter isn't urban, per se (and the former is more of pre-Renaissance-level urban), but it has the physics thing down pat.

Also, if you're more into geometry and mathematics, I've heard about (but not read myslef) The Rithmatist, and that seems like a good one as well.Sanderson is really good at getting his characters to apply reasonable physics to their powers. They're not suddenly going to figure out the duality between electricity and magnetism because they can magic, but they do realize that there are very real physical consequences to the powers that they possess, and in one notable case, a character even breaks down a power in a more-or-less scientific sense.

He has an excuse, though.

[Cespenar]

In the aforementioned Mistborn, the Mistborns use their metal push/pull ability to travel along preestablished metal spikes to reach a city very quickly. That's basically magnetic levitation.

[Eldan]

Brandon Sanderson's stuff, specifically Mistborn and Stormlight Archive. The latter isn't urban, per se (and the former is more of pre-Renaissance-level urban), but it has the physics thing down pat.

Also, if you're more into geometry and mathematics, I've heard about (but not read myself) The Rithmatist, and that seems like a good one as well.

I've read the Rithmatist, and it's really not Sanderson's best work, especially because of the ending. Basically, he sets up a mystery given a certain set of magical powers, everything is solving nicely, and then at the end of an otherwise rather short story, there's suddenly a huge conspiracy and new magic and nothing is resolved. It basically ends with "wouldn't this be nice if it was the first few chapters of a longer novel?"

I thought that was really disappointing.

[BlueHerring]

In the aforementioned Mistborn, the Mistborns use their metal push/pull ability to travel along preestablished metal spikes to reach a city very quickly. That's basically magnetic levitation.It actually isn't magnetic levitation. If it were magnetic levitation, it wouldn't work on nonmagnetic metals.

The Iron/Steel powers (Pulling and Pushing, respectively) act as weird momentum transfers. While it isn't a net zero transfer in momentum (otherwise these powers would be really lackluster), the effectiveness of burning these two metals is directly proportional to a character's mass. Whenever a character uses these two powers in tandem, it's a combination of the two. They slingshot themselves upwards/forwards with Pulling, and Push further upwards, and combine the two powers to control the path of their "flight" (which is really just a bunch of powered jumps).

[tomandtish]

Or when a bad guy used flamethrowers to get around a magical protection against fire by making the ambient heat so high that stuff burned anyway.

It does show physics, but is more luck on the bad guy's part than an actual thought-out plan.

“I’ve been admiring you for some time now, Dresden,” came Mavra’s voice. “I’ve seen you stop bullets with your power. I’ve seen you stop knives and claws and fangs.” She made a gesture with her hand. “And so I simply must know how well you will fare against your own weapon of choice.”

And two Renfields stepped out into the doorway, blocking my view of Mavra. Each of them held a long metal device in their hands, and each of them wore something that bulged out above their shoulders, gleaming shapes of rounded metal. A blue starter flame flickered at the end of the devices they held, and it hit me all at once what was happening. Both of the Renfields lifted their flamethrowers and filled the cramped little hallway with fire.

...Fire coughed uncertainly from the mouths of the flamethrowers, spattering the hall along the floors, walls, and ceiling, where it clung in globs of what had to be a mix of gasoline or some other accelerant, and petroleum jelly—homemade napalm. The air went from cold to roasting-hot, even from the aborted discharge of fire, sucking the wind from my lungs.

.... I caught it on the shield, but I had never intended it to stop heat. It was primarily a defense against kinetic energy, and while I had used it to handle everything from bullets to runaway elevator cars in my career as a wizard, it just wasn’t all that good at stopping the transfer of intense heat. The napalm-jelly splattered against the invisible shield, gallons of it, and the fire clung to it in white-hot glee. Its mindless fury seeped through the shield and flowed onto me. It hurt. Oh, God, it hurt. The fingers of my left hand were the first to feel it, and then my palm and wrist, all in the space of a second.

So my read on this was..

She's throwing fire at him because she's never seen him block it although she's seen him use it a lot (hence her comment). She may also be wondering if it can wrap around the shield. The fact that the HEAT gets through even though the flame doesn't seems a lucky break on her part rather than a specifically thought out strategy.


Again, a good example of physics though.

[Armaius]

What, no love for the Young Wizards? The author practically turns magic into a STEM field, especially in the later books.

[Keltest]

It does show physics, but is more luck on the bad guy's part than an actual thought-out plan.

“I’ve been admiring you for some time now, Dresden,” came Mavra’s voice. “I’ve seen you stop bullets with your power. I’ve seen you stop knives and claws and fangs.” She made a gesture with her hand. “And so I simply must know how well you will fare against your own weapon of choice.”

And two Renfields stepped out into the doorway, blocking my view of Mavra. Each of them held a long metal device in their hands, and each of them wore something that bulged out above their shoulders, gleaming shapes of rounded metal. A blue starter flame flickered at the end of the devices they held, and it hit me all at once what was happening. Both of the Renfields lifted their flamethrowers and filled the cramped little hallway with fire.

...Fire coughed uncertainly from the mouths of the flamethrowers, spattering the hall along the floors, walls, and ceiling, where it clung in globs of what had to be a mix of gasoline or some other accelerant, and petroleum jelly—homemade napalm. The air went from cold to roasting-hot, even from the aborted discharge of fire, sucking the wind from my lungs.

.... I caught it on the shield, but I had never intended it to stop heat. It was primarily a defense against kinetic energy, and while I had used it to handle everything from bullets to runaway elevator cars in my career as a wizard, it just wasn’t all that good at stopping the transfer of intense heat. The napalm-jelly splattered against the invisible shield, gallons of it, and the fire clung to it in white-hot glee. Its mindless fury seeped through the shield and flowed onto me. It hurt. Oh, God, it hurt. The fingers of my left hand were the first to feel it, and then my palm and wrist, all in the space of a second.

So my read on this was..

She's throwing fire at him because she's never seen him block it although she's seen him use it a lot (hence her comment). She may also be wondering if it can wrap around the shield. The fact that the HEAT gets through even though the flame doesn't seems a lucky break on her part rather than a specifically thought out strategy.


Again, a good example of physics though.


My take on it was that she had observed him enough to get an understanding of how his shield could block an impact well, but that it wasn't designed for a sustained onslaught.

[tomandtish]

My take on it was that she had observed him enough to get an understanding of how his shield could block an impact well, but that it wasn't designed for a sustained onslaught.

Fair enough. I hadn't gotten that from it, but that was just my take.

Either way. it's still a good physics example. Now when's the next book?!?

[The Glyphstone]

What, no love for the Young Wizards? The author practically turns magic into a STEM field, especially in the later books.

People sadly tend to neglect the YA field in general, despite it being full of the occasional gem like YW.

[Leewei]

I think the "Laundry" series by Charles Stross would qualify. Lovecraftian fantasy/horror written by someone that also writes hard science fiction.

I'd recommend this as well. Stross is a great read, can be wonderfully snarky and funny, and has a hell of a mind for technology. He's actually written a technical manual.

On top of that, he's the creator of the Githyanki, the Githzerai, and the Slaad.

[TripleD]

What, no love for the Young Wizards? The author practically turns magic into a STEM field, especially in the later books.

How did I forget about those? The first book had the time light takes to reach the earth as a major plot point.

Disappointed that the author decided to retcons the timeline a few years back. I was fond of the "each book takes place in the year it's published" thing it had going on.