Metamagic with unusual spells (3.5/Pathfinder)

[Sigh]

So I was having a conversation with my friends regarding metamagic, joking around as D&D friends do, when someone joked about a metamagic'd Grease spell being cast, which got me thinking.

How, exactly DOES metamagic affect certain spells that don't have an immediately obvious combat use? Does a Maximized Grease become more slippery and even more flammable? Does an Enlarged Prestidigitation allow you to perform more impressive parlor tricks? Does an empowered Light spell shine more strongly?

I'd love to hear what you guys have to say about this, surely from an in-universe perspective it wouldn't make much sense if metamagic was only useful in a combat-oriented sense.

[Big Fau]

So I was having a conversation with my friends regarding metamagic, joking around as D&D friends do, when someone joked about a metamagic'd Grease spell being cast, which got me thinking.

How, exactly DOES metamagic affect certain spells that don't have an immediately obvious combat use? Does a Maximized Grease become more slippery and even more flammable? Does an Enlarged Prestidigitation allow you to perform more impressive parlor tricks? Does an empowered Light spell shine more strongly?

I'd love to hear what you guys have to say about this, surely from an in-universe perspective it wouldn't make much sense if metamagic was only useful in a combat-oriented sense.

Maximize has not effect on Grease, as it has no variable numeric values. You could Widen a Grease, or Extend a Prestidigitation, but the effects are fairly clearly stated.

[Jack_Simth]

So I was having a conversation with my friends regarding metamagic, joking around as D&D friends do, when someone joked about a metamagic'd Grease spell being cast, which got me thinking.

How, exactly DOES metamagic affect certain spells that don't have an immediately obvious combat use? Does a Maximized Grease become more slippery and even more flammable? Does an Enlarged Prestidigitation allow you to perform more impressive parlor tricks? Does an empowered Light spell shine more strongly?

I'd love to hear what you guys have to say about this, surely from an in-universe perspective it wouldn't make much sense if metamagic was only useful in a combat-oriented sense.

Metamagic does what it says it does. No more, no less. Maximize and Empower apply to things that use dice to determine the magnitude of the effect... most of the time, that means "direct damage spells", but sometimes it means "Number of hours you get to make the weather suit you". Grease and Light don't have those, so no effect.

Enlarge Spell changes range - and the range of Prestidigitation isn't on the list, so nothing happens... but is handy when, say, using Wall of Stone to build emergency shelters: You don't have to walk as far.

[Chronikoce]

If you want something like a super powered grease spell you'd have to use spell research and DM approval to make your own custom grease spell at a higher spell level which would depend on the effects you add to it.

Otherwise stated as above by others, metamagic just does what is stated and leaves no room for creative interpretation.

[Draz74]

I think everyone here is totally missing the OP's point. He's not looking for mechanical effects beyond the standard for metamagic effects, just descriptive effects. Fluff, not crunch.

Stuff like Belkar being hurt (but not taking any damage) from wearing a Protection from Evil effect. Using your imagination to come up with in-universe dressing to magic.

Maximizing Grease isn't going to have any mechanical effect, nothing worth the higher spell slot for optimization purposes, but that doesn't mean it has no effect at all.

[Chronikoce]

But casting maximized grease would take up a higher level slot. From an in-game standpoint a caster wouldn't use a higher level resource without effect. Why not use spell research to create your own version and name it maximized grease.

Now from a description standpoint I would actually say Heightened grease is more what you are looking for. The save DC would be boosted for anyone in the zone when it was cast which can easily be described as being harder to keep your footing on the extra slippery grease.

[Sigh]

I'll be honest, the replies here are a bit disappointing, although I suppose that's why it's called metamagic. It's already complicated enough without allowing room for innovation, lest the powergamers somehow make Spark into a game breaking spell everyone needs to use.

[Big Fau]

I'll be honest, the replies here are a bit disappointing, although I suppose that's why it's called metamagic. It's already complicated enough without allowing room for innovation, lest the powergamers somehow make Spark into a game breaking spell everyone needs to use.

Innovation is one thing, outright ignoring the rules is another. If you wanted custom spell ideas, ask for those instead of "How did your DM let you cheat?" and you'll get more answers.

As it stands, metamagic can be used in noncombat situations. Widening a Silent Image, for example, can let you create an entire theater's worth of puppets to entertain locals, and Extended Invisibility is infinitely handy during a burglary (personal experiences).

[Jormengand]

Empowering and maximising summoning spells (Oh come on, the damage dealt because you summoned a creature is clearly a variable, numeric effect of the spell) can be funny, especially when you then choose the option to summon 1d4+1 of the level two below, which suddenly becomes 7 of the level two below. Obviously, you're actually summoning creatures 9 levels below the slot you actually used without some metamagic reduction, but there are ways around that - easy metamagic, practical metamagic, incantatrix, metaphysical spellshaper, divine metamagic and so forth in 3.5, and sacred geometry in PF - so you can enjoy your SMIII creating 7 angry creatures from the SMI list, each doing one and a half times the normal maximum damage of their weapons.

[Necroticplague]

So I was having a conversation with my friends regarding metamagic, joking around as D&D friends do, when someone joked about a metamagic'd Grease spell being cast, which got me thinking.

How, exactly DOES metamagic affect certain spells that don't have an immediately obvious combat use? Does a Maximized Grease become more slippery and even more flammable? Does an Enlarged Prestidigitation allow you to perform more impressive parlor tricks? Does an empowered Light spell shine more strongly?

I'd love to hear what you guys have to say about this, surely from an in-universe perspective it wouldn't make much sense if metamagic was only useful in a combat-oriented sense.

Metamagic does what it says, not a thing more or less. Whether it's useful out of combat depends on the metamagic and the spell. Silent and Still are mostly useful for being stealthy out of combat, Widen can apply to many many illusions and transmutations that are useful out of combat, Invisible Spell has about 5 million uses out of combat.

[daremetoidareyo]

Taking a more interpretive approach, poison spell becomes a really fun metamagic. Poison grease?! Poisoned summons or poisonous summons?