Lawful good fighter with moral dillema

[Bcurran90]

I am in a dnd 5e party with a character who worships an evil deity (we don't know IC that the character is evil) I am currently going with the deity is evil but the PC doesn't seem evil himself so I'm giving him the been fit of the doubt so long as he doesn't do anything evil (summon demons, murder civilians, etc). My question is, am I playing this character properly or am I doing it wrong?

[MrStabby]

Well the stock answer is that a character is more than an alignment - you play a complex individual. If this is what you feel your character would do - then go for it. As it is it is a valid way to be LG and keep the party together.

As a side note, is summoning demons evil? I am just thinking of films like Silence of the Lambs - consorting with an evil being can be both Lawful and Good, if challenging whilst remaining true to character.

[R.Shackleford]

Well the stock answer is that a character is more than an alignment - you play a complex individual. If this is what you feel your character would do - then go for it. As it is it is a valid way to be LG and keep the party together.

As a side note, is summoning demons evil? I am just thinking of films like Silence of the Lambs - consorting with an evil being can be both Lawful and Good, if challenging whilst remaining true to character.

In D&D summoning demons used to be evil. Like... There was no way around it even if you did it for a good reason.

In 5e, I don't recall seeing anything like that. You could be a LG Fiend Warlock and it has no effect on your alignment.

4e Really really really helped getting the alignment out of D&D.

[awa]

if you killed him just becuase he worships an evil deity without any indication that he himself has done anything wrong many dm would say you were the one being evil.

[R.Shackleford]

if you killed him just becuase he worships an evil deity without any indication that he himself has done anything wrong many dm would say you were the one being evil.

Which doesn't really have any effect on characters anymore... Soo... Yeah.


Good/neutral deities tend to be ok with you killing evil creatures for the sake of them being evil.

[Bcurran90]

Thanks everyone for the quick responses I'll probably just stick with how I'm playing him. He hasn't gotten us into any trouble and again isn't sacrificing innocents or just murdering people to murder them. The most "evil" thing he has done was used a bear carcass to make a shrine to his deity.

[Lombra]

Which doesn't really have any effect on characters anymore... Soo... Yeah.


Good/neutral deities tend to be ok with you killing evil creatures for the sake of them being evil.

RP transcends mechanical implications (except inspiration, potentially). Trying to play a character as you think it should is the point of choosing an alignment. A LG character might even consider not killing the evil god worshipper even if he performs evil acts, because he's too good, or he can punish his acts in the name of righteousness, always LG, in a different way.
Background and the course of the adventure should shape the choices that the characters make.

[RickAllison]

Really, you may want to re-evaluate your PC's alignment if he is so prejudiced against people based on religion that he would murder them despite being an alright person. I mean that would be like someone going "I'm a Satanist" and, even though they may be a great person, the character thinks "I might murder you for believing in that." That may not be Evil since he is only thinking it, but By Eldath it sure isn't good.

That isn't a paladin saying "You might be Evil, so I'm not going to associate with you." It is more like "You might be Evil, so I think I should murder you." Now that I think about it, that does sound more evil...

Maybe your PC is more of an LE, Punisher-style. He commits great Evil to save the world from Evil. Of course, even Frank Castle at least makes sure they are criminals first...

What are the other personality traits of your PC? If his alignment is the only thing related to this, you definitely shouldn't do it. If there are other personality aspects that come into play (your character really is incredibly prejudiced against certain religions), then you should weight those against the alignment. So please, share your Bonds, Traits, Ideals, and Flaws, they will give a better idea.

Edit: Rusty, I actually really like the idea of a PC who thinks they are LG (Knight Templar-esque), but who murders anyone who might be evil. Then, the party is judged by a pack of Sprites to decide if they will be allowed into a sacred fountain of Eldath. The Sprites use their Heart Sight on the supposedly LG PC and...

"Eeeeek, his heart is as black as coal! Out! Out!"

[R.Shackleford]

RP transcends mechanical implications (except inspiration, potentially). Trying to play a character as you think it should is the point of choosing an alignment. A LG character might even consider not killing the evil god worshipper even if he performs evil acts, because he's too good, or he can punish his acts in the name of righteousness, always LG, in a different way.
Background and the course of the adventure should shape the choices that the characters make.

Might and might and might...

A LG character might not kill but then again a LG character might always kill.

The deities of D&D however have shown time and time again that killing evil is a good act. It may not be lawful, but it is a good act within the context of the game. We aren't talking real world here ok, but within a game where good and evil are tangible forces.

The best thing to do is take away all mentions of the alignment system and ask, would this character do X.

Would someone who has X background, Y personality, and Z view point kill this person who is worshiping an evil deity? Don't ask "would a good person kill an evil person" because that is too generic of a question.

In 5e alignment doesn't matter all that much. Mechanically or on a roleplaying scale, it isn't a specific metric but a guideline.

[RickAllison]

Might and might and might...

A LG character might not kill but then again a LG character might always kill.

The deities of D&D however have shown time and time again that killing evil is a good act. It may not be lawful, but it is a good act within the context of the game. We aren't talking real world here ok, but within a game where good and evil are tangible forces.

The best thing to do is take away all mentions of the alignment system and ask, would this character do X.

Would someone who has X background, Y personality, and Z view point kill this person who is worshiping an evil deity? Don't ask "would a good person kill an evil person" because that is too generic of a question.

In 5e alignment doesn't matter all that much. Mechanically or on a roleplaying scale, it isn't a specific metric but a guideline.

Ummmm, I would like some sources on where killing someone who is Evil is always a Good act. Not that someone who is killing or terrorizing a population is Good to kill, but that it is Good to walk up to someone who is of Evil alignment and murder them in the street.

For example, a shopkeeper is LE. He cares nothing for anyone else, placing his prices as high as possible without losing money, purposely burning any goods past their prime so that scavengers can't use them, and so on. He is a despicable person. But does he deserve to get stabbed in the middle of the street, and is it Good to do so?

Now that is even more extreme than the current case. In this case, it is not killing someone who is known to be evil, but just doesn't do anything that merits murder. Rather, it is murdering someone because they could possibly be evil. At least in my settings, murdering someone without provocation because of alignment is likely to be Evil no matter what, but killing someone because their alignment is not known is certainly Evil.

[Cybren]

I'd read this article http://lookrobot.co.uk/2013/06/23/stanislavski-vs-brecht-in-tabletop-roleplaying/ and then re-approach the situation

[Sir cryosin]

If he dose not commit any crimes or sins how is he evil. Just because he worships a certain God. My point is you have no right to kill him. A so called good god. Would not want you to kill but to save and convert. For he has not shown any reasons to be judged. For things he hasn't done. The world is full of grey and there are many god's. I don't want to go in to a rant so I'll just say it don't kill him treat him just like if he was of a good alignment. Untell he has proven otherwise.

[Addaran]

I am in a dnd 5e party with a character who worships an evil deity (we don't know IC that the character is evil) I am currently going with the deity is evil but the PC doesn't seem evil himself so I'm giving him the been fit of the doubt so long as he doesn't do anything evil (summon demons, murder civilians, etc). My question is, am I playing this character properly or am I doing it wrong?

Well first, even if it was the thing that your character would do, it might not be best to just kill him. Would you be okay with another player killing your character because of his deity/race/etc? Maybe your fighter is a dwarf, is it okay for the drow fighter archer to kill you cause his character would hate your race?


There's a lot of possible reasons why he could worship an evil deity, even if he was good. Maybe he comes from a tyrannical state where worshipping X is mandatory or you get killed. You could worship the deity of disease so you don't get any. In a world where deities exist, it's entirely possible that the safest way to not suffer a bad faith is to appeal to the god of that faith's vanity and ego, but worshipping him. The evil God could poses as not evil to his worshipper and only someone well versed in religion could know the deitie's real agenda with the help of his own deitie.

Alternatively, even if he's evil, if he fallows the law and don't act evil, he probably should be allowed to live. Some racist people are just rude and don't want to associated with people of X races. While that's evil and inequitable, it's not really death penalty material....

[Lombra]

Might and might and might...

A LG character might not kill but then again a LG character might always kill.

The deities of D&D however have shown time and time again that killing evil is a good act. It may not be lawful, but it is a good act within the context of the game. We aren't talking real world here ok, but within a game where good and evil are tangible forces.

The best thing to do is take away all mentions of the alignment system and ask, would this character do X.

Would someone who has X background, Y personality, and Z view point kill this person who is worshiping an evil deity? Don't ask "would a good person kill an evil person" because that is too generic of a question.

In 5e alignment doesn't matter all that much. Mechanically or on a roleplaying scale, it isn't a specific metric but a guideline.

That' s... what I said...

[Vogonjeltz]

I am in a dnd 5e party with a character who worships an evil deity (we don't know IC that the character is evil) I am currently going with the deity is evil but the PC doesn't seem evil himself so I'm giving him the been fit of the doubt so long as he doesn't do anything evil (summon demons, murder civilians, etc). My question is, am I playing this character properly or am I doing it wrong?

Contextually it depends on the deity. Many pantheons have deities who have in their portfolio things that might be considered evil, or at least creepy, but they also tend to have things that give characters a good reason to give them lip service or outright worship for particular reasons.

i.e. A bloodthirsty god of war might by routinely worshipped by mercenaries/warriors who seek to win through in their battles, or a god of death might be venerated for their role in ushering souls in the afterlife, a god of greed might be worshipped for those who seek to attain a higher station, a god of tyranny by those who wish to impose order over chaos, etc...

Typically if it's a normal deity then there would have plausible, likely routinely innocuous, reasons for every day folk to worship them in contrast to say worshipping one of the demons or devils which only a lunatic or those seeking to make a bargain for power would do.

[Draken]

So, you are playing Roy and your worst case scenario is that you got Durkula in your party. Best case scenario is... I don't know, the other guy is Varsuuvius (are all elven gods evil? I believe so. Maybe not capital E but certainly they are all awful).

You have no oaths to any particular organization or individual at stake and there appears to be no immediate danger stemming from this individual's faith in an evil deity. The answer then is not to ostracize, banish or kill. The answer is to talk. Learn the reason for the worship, what the cult entails, and if possible/needed, talk the character out of it.

Also "an evil god" is pretty generic. Nerull demands that its worshipers murder the living and raise the undead. Erythnull just wants violence and mayhem, specific targets don't matter. Vecna's worship can very well be limited to a book club made of particularly mean folks. If it is an evil racial god, then you can probably not bother because clearly, violent racism (the usual deal with these) is not going on. Tharizdum wants every moving thing killed, every inanimate thing shattered and everything else soiled. Hextor wants discipline and conquest.

The gods themselves are of course paragons of all that is horrific and malevolent and shape their otherworldly domains into fitting vistas of the most extreme of their desires. But that hardly matters, because most mortals are not insane enough to imitate them and most players are not creative enough to even conceive the absolute psychosis of the D&D gods.

[georgie_leech]

A lot of good advice on alignment in this thread, so I'll just chime in to say there are other aspects to your character beyond alignment. Don’t forget to consider your personality, flaws, bonds, the whole thing.

[djreynolds]

I like it, but honestly at some point he must have an awakening. And either he will change gods, or he will seek to change the clergy to what he sees at the god's new wishes. Perhaps Talos has really had a change of heart and is actually nice.

This could be a great adventure of spreading the word.

But, but... at some point he has to accept the fact he does worship an evil deity and change must occur.

[RickAllison]

I like it, but honestly at some point he must have an awakening. And either he will change gods, or he will seek to change the clergy to what he sees at the god's new wishes. Perhaps Talos has really had a change of heart and is actually nice.

This could be a great adventure of spreading the word.

But, but... at some point he has to accept the fact he does worship an evil deity and change must occur.

Not necessarily.

Auril, Goddess of Winter. May be worshipped to keep her appeased so she will not ravage a farmer's crops with a late or early frost.

Malar, God of the Hunt. So many people from all walks of life could worship this one. Hunters, Vengeance Paladins, scouts, anyone who tracks and hunts a quarry has good reason to appeal to this evil god. Even one who is hunting down evildoers could plausibly worship him (think Hircine from Skyrim. He has some awful followers, you can hunt and kill them, and he will actually reward you for it).

Myrkul, God of Death. Death is a sacred thing. Anyone who believes in smooth passage to the next life could well worship the one who oversees those transitions. One of the worshipers I could see of this is someone who destroys undead, someone who ensures those souls do not violate the precepts of the god of death.

Talona, Goddess of Disease and Poison. Do you want to become riddled with diseases? Then maybe praying to Talona is a good idea. Or maybe she is like Nurgle and "gives" you diseases that are modified to be beneficial!

Compared to Bhaal, God of Murder... Okay, this would be a pretty evil god to have. So someone shouldn't have to re-evaluate their choice of god just because the god happens to align that way. Many evil gods have perfectly good reasons to worship them even when good. Just maybe not Bhaal...

[djreynolds]

I see your point... but from a story perspective... whether it is a good or evil character having an epiphany... it could be cool.

Check out Erevis Cale, he's so tortured.

[Seppo87]

I'd read this article http://lookrobot.co.uk/2013/06/23/stanislavski-vs-brecht-in-tabletop-roleplaying/ and then re-approach the situation

Best advice in the thread right here.

To sum it up,
Find a reason for your character to get along with the evil worshipping PC, because

1) this is a group game so let everybody have their fun
and
2) it promotes dynamic interaction, character evolution, and adaptation to unpredictable results, whereas blocking things rigidly only gives the same outcome over and over

Make the reason something interesting for the rest of the group and for your character. Let them know what he's doing and feeling, because if you don't describe it, it doesn't exist.

Play it. See where it goes. Have fun with it.

[georgie_leech]

Myrkul, God of Death. Death is a sacred thing. Anyone who believes in smooth passage to the next life could well worship the one who oversees those transitions. One of the worshipers I could see of this is someone who destroys undead, someone who ensures those souls do not violate the precepts of the god of death.

Eh... most of the others are at least plausible, but last I checked Myrkul was pretty much the poster child for cliché evil death gods that want to see everyone added to their kingdom, raising armies of the dead to overthrow the living, and generally acting like one of the most uninteresting necromancer you can be.

His creed: 'Know me and fear me. My embrace is for all and is patient but sure. The dead can always find you. My hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me.'

[RickAllison]

Eh... most of the others are at least plausible, but last I checked Myrkul was pretty much the poster child for cliché evil death gods that want to see everyone added to their kingdom, raising armies of the dead to overthrow the living, and generally acting like one of the most uninteresting necromancer you can be.

His creed: 'Know me and fear me. My embrace is for all and is patient but sure. The dead can always find you. My hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me.'

Well with that description, wouldn't you want to stay on his good side?:smallbiggrin:

But more seriously, this is a god who simultaneously spreads fear of death and himself throughout the land, but also is one of the steadiest gods. Unless one openly insults him, he is unlikely to single anyone out. He presides over funerals (so anyone involved with those will worship him just as Greek soldiers would worship Ares, despite the guy being arguably the worst of the Olympian gods).

A Good worshipper of him does so not due to the wish to spread his fear, but because they are afraid of him and see his impact in their lives.

[georgie_leech]

Well with that description, wouldn't you want to stay on his good side?:smallbiggrin:

But more seriously, this is a god who simultaneously spreads fear of death and himself throughout the land, but also is one of the steadiest gods. Unless one openly insults him, he is unlikely to single anyone out. He presides over funerals (so anyone involved with those will worship him just as Greek soldiers would worship Ares, despite the guy being arguably the worst of the Olympian gods).

A Good worshipper of him does so not due to the wish to spread his fear, but because they are afraid of him and see his impact in their lives.

Worshiping and acknowledging the existence of Myrkul are two different things. In fact, Myrkul is directly empowered by the number of direct worshipers he has. So to Worship Myrkul is to directly empower the guy that stole a bunch of souls during the Time of Troubles to get powerful and go stomp all over Waterdeep because he wanted to seize a Macguffin to achieve ultimate power over all of Faerun. Worshiping Myrkul isn't like being a peasant under the rule of a tyrannical dictator, it's like willingly supporting that dictator, his methods, and beliefs. I really don't see how anyone Good can hold the belief 'Myrkul should be able to kill anyone at any time for any reason,' (and that is part of what the God of the Dead is in Faerun) and remain Good.

It's not that I don't think Good people can worship gods of death in general, I don't think they can worship Myrkul.

[Sigreid]

Have fun with it and spend a good bit of in character time trying to convince him that his god is duping him and he should convert.