Player Puzzle - Chess Conundrum for an RPG

[PrinceOfMadness]

I'm not certain whether this would be better suited here or in the Gaming sub-forum - the primary issue is with chess, but I'm also looking for other advice related to my RPG. Mods feel free to move to a more appropriate forum.

I'm going to be running a game later this week and my players will be encountering a sort of 'gauntlet'. The gauntlet will have physical traps, but also mental challenges, and I'd like for one of these challenges to be an in-progress game of chess. The goal is to have the chessboard set up in such a way that the next move will either spell victory (checkmate of the enemy king) or crushing defeat (checkmate of the player's own king). As this is a puzzle, I'd also like it if the winning move were unconventional or otherwise difficult to pick out.

Sadly, my Google-fu has failed to turn up any relevant examples of such a scenario. I'm willing to compromise it up to two moves required for a victory, but 3 is iffy - the chess puzzle is simply one obstacle in their path and I don't want to devote a lot of game time to it. If anyone has any relevant examples they can link to me that would be lovely.

I'm also looking for other suggestions for mental challenges - I'm opposed to riddles on general principle, but I'm willing to entertain other ideas. Bonus points if the mental challenges have multiple paths that can be undertaken to arrive at a solution.

[legomaster00156]

This may be of some help to you. (http://mateinone.com/)

[TheYell]

White : King at king6 and rook at krooK2.
Black: King at king8 and pawn at queen2.

if white moves rook to krook8 it is checkmate. if rook takes pawn it is probably stalemate. if white moves other ways black moves pawn to queen1 and gets a queen and probably would win.

for other mental puzzles google guessing the weight of coins within a certain number of moves.

[TheYell]

To make it trickier tell them White should be able to mate in less than four moves so they dont automatically see it can be done immediately.

[JellyPooga]

An important thing to consider about "mental" puzzles is that however hard you make it, yoy need to plan for the contingency of the players saying "I'll roll for it be because my character is smarter than I am" without just giving away the answer (because that's boring).

In the case of the chess puzzle, I'd have checkmate be at least 2, if not 3 or 4 moves away. On a successful Int check (or whatever is appropriate), you can give them one move as a hint; the puzzle is now easier, but you haven't just solved it for them based on one die roll.

I'd consider your players before including such a puzzle, however; are any of them fans of chess, or particularly good at it? If so, then a simple puzzle will not be entertaining. You need to find something that will be engaging or otherwise interesting; perhaps by introducing a 3D element or a piece the player is not familiar with. If not, then try to avoid anything too complex; being forced to play a game you don't like is not fun.

[JenBurdoo]

For simplicity, I suggest matchstick puzzles (google them, there are a dozen that require only four matches). You can lay out a few pencils and tell them to arrange them into a particular shape (making six triangles with 12 matches is a fairly easy one), or arrange a shape and change it to something else with a limited number of moves. Some have multiple solutions. A tangram set can be fun as well; issue them with the pieces and tell them to form them into a particular shape. There are also a few brainteasers that can be done with pencil and paper, such as the one where you have nine dots arranged in a square and must connect them all with four straight lines. All of these can easily be presented as codes, or parts of a key.

[PrinceOfMadness]

This may be of some help to you. (http://mateinone.com/)
Yes - I'd encountered this, but it doesn't really help me to create situations where the game could go either way in a move or two.

White : King at king6 and rook at krooK2.
Black: King at king8 and pawn at queen2.

if white moves rook to krook8 it is checkmate. if rook takes pawn it is probably stalemate. if white moves other ways black moves pawn to queen1 and gets a queen and probably would win.

for other mental puzzles google guessing the weight of coins within a certain number of moves.
...
To make it trickier tell them White should be able to mate in less than four moves so they dont automatically see it can be done immediately.
Thank you! It's not *exactly* the situation I'm looking for, but this is definitely the right direction!

An important thing to consider about "mental" puzzles is that however hard you make it, yoy need to plan for the contingency of the players saying "I'll roll for it be because my character is smarter than I am" without just giving away the answer (because that's boring).

In the case of the chess puzzle, I'd have checkmate be at least 2, if not 3 or 4 moves away. On a successful Int check (or whatever is appropriate), you can give them one move as a hint; the puzzle is now easier, but you haven't just solved it for them based on one die roll.

I'd consider your players before including such a puzzle, however; are any of them fans of chess, or particularly good at it? If so, then a simple puzzle will not be entertaining. You need to find something that will be engaging or otherwise interesting; perhaps by introducing a 3D element or a piece the player is not familiar with. If not, then try to avoid anything too complex; being forced to play a game you don't like is not fun.
I'm reluctant to hand out hints with a simple roll. I may give a hint if they're really struggling, but if they can't beat the chess puzzle I'm leaning more towards having them get past it, but also taking some damage. On the other hand, if they get past it easily, more power to them - there are more puzzles that I know they'll struggle with (which is part of why I don't want to spend a lot of time on this one).

For simplicity, I suggest matchstick puzzles (google them, there are a dozen that require only four matches). You can lay out a few pencils and tell them to arrange them into a particular shape (making six triangles with 12 matches is a fairly easy one), or arrange a shape and change it to something else with a limited number of moves. Some have multiple solutions. A tangram set can be fun as well; issue them with the pieces and tell them to form them into a particular shape. There are also a few brainteasers that can be done with pencil and paper, such as the one where you have nine dots arranged in a square and must connect them all with four straight lines. All of these can easily be presented as codes, or parts of a key.
Cool suggestions! Will keep these in mind as well!

[JellyPooga]

I'm reluctant to hand out hints with a simple roll.

It's worth bearing in mind that this is a roleplaying game and not a quiz show. The game is about the characters, not the players and the challenges they face should be able to reflect this. If someone is playing a high Intelligence character, you *need* a contingency for the (almost) inevitable "can I roll for it?" without falling back on the big ol' NO.

Your first response as a GM to any player request should be "Yes". Feel free to add in a "...but" or "...and" or "...if" after that "Yes", but the answer should only be "No" if it's totally unreasonable. Asking to make a roll for something Int based like a chess puzzle is as reasonable as asking to roll to make an attack instead of having to demonstrate your own prowess with a sword.

I'm not saying you'll definitely get a player asking to roll, just that you need to consider the possibility and saying "no, you take some damage because you, the player, couldn't work it out despite the fact that your character is a genius chess player with Int 18 and Chess Proficiency" seems uneccesarily harsh.

Puzzles, like social situations, should be resolved by the characters, not the players. That means one or more dice rolls. The players have the benefit of trying to work it out themselves, but if all else fails it's their right to say "nope, I don't get it but my character might".

It's up to you as GM to work out what method of rolling will be the most fun and engaging for the player who, at the end of the day, has just been defeated by a puzzle he couldn't solve. That player is already on a downer and your first instinct, once he's given up and you've refused to let him roll for a hint, is to kick him while he's down with some damage and say "better luck with the next one kid, there's plenty more to come". Sound fun to you?

I apologise for coming across somewhat harsh, but I do so intentionally to hammer home the point. To summarise;
- Characters have abilities and knowledge that Players don't.
- The players aren't there, the Characters are.
- How do we resolve the things Characters do? We roll dice.
- Let your players roll dice if they can't work out or guess your puzzle.

Addendum: Puzzles often suffer from "guess what I'm thinking" syndrome, where the players are left literally guessing at the answer. Don't do this. Riddles and symbol-matching are particularly prone to this, in my experience.

For a puzzle to be fun, the players need to be able to work it out. Rolling dice to get additional clues or more in-game time to help this process is a good way to keep players engaged in the puzzle and to make the players feel like their characters are involved too.

9/10 times, puzzles are left to the one player who's good at puzzles whilst everyone els waits for him to work it out. Try to avoid this; involve the whole group. As an example, I present Star Wars IV: A New Hope.

Four Players; Luke, Leia, Han and Chewie, have just escaped the detention centre and are trapped in the garbage compactor after a gruelling fight with a sewer-monster that nearly drowned Luke. Two other players; 3P0 and R2, have been left at the guard station. The walls of the compactor start closing in and the door is locked! How do our heroes escape this sticky conundrum? Let's give them a puzzle, Yeah!

So we come up with a puzzle to represent R2 hacking the system to shut down the compactor and unlock the door (the details are irrelevant). Everyone can help solve it out-of-character. Using your response of "I don't want to solve it with dice rolls", if none of the players can work out the puzzle, Luke and the gang are history.

How can we make this better? Well, R2 can make some hacking rolls for a start. This can give him some pieces of the puzzle; the better he rolls the easier he'll find the puzzle and the quicker he'll do it in-game. His character is a whizz with computers so this feels right. 3P0 can't do a lot except help work out the puzzle out-of-character because his character is optimized for social encounters and he's in the wrong place to do anything useful. The gang in the dustbin, though, what can they do? Well, they can use the trash to brace the walls, giving R2 more time; cue some more dice rolls!

3P0 is a great help to the GM, heightening the tension by screaming at R2 to hurry up, all the while you, the GM, describe the stench and the fear of the walls pressing in inexorably (and ask for some Athletics checks to climb on top of the rubbish and avoid taking some minor damage after a couple of turns), the screams and shouts of the gang over the radio...perhaps the guys shouldn't have been so relieved when the sewer-monster fled...perhaps this is the end, perhaps not...

So;
- We have a puzzle. Check.
- Clues about the puzzle gathered by one or more Hacking rolls. Great; character (as opposed to player) skills involved. Check.
- As many players actively involved in the scene as possible. Check.
- All characters actively involved making rolls? Check.
- Is there an incentive to solve the puzzle quickly? Check. Players take damage or even die if they take too long.
- Do the players have the option to use their characters skills to give them more time? Check.

Is this a good puzzle? Yes. There's tension and danger, but everyone's involved and the players get to work together to save the day by using their characters, not just their own heads.

Without rolling dice, the players can only feel helpless while their beloved characters are squished to death becsuse they couldn't guess what the GM was thinking or work out his puzzle.

With rolling dice, they get the sense of empowerment that comes with playing a character with greater abilities than their own. Even if the dice fail them, at least it wss the character, or at least the dice gods, that failed, not the player. Failing as a character is ok, even fun. Failing as a player just makes you feel crummy and that's not fun.

[JenBurdoo]

Cool suggestions! Will keep these in mind as well!
Glad you liked them. In some cases, you won't have to force them to go for one single solution; with tangrams, for example, there are dozens of ways to make a bird. Tell them to assemble one and see what they make of it. If they exercise their imaginations and yours, they'll make you see it in their mess of pieces.

Other thoughts. I warn you now, I'm a children's librarian, and I have used these all to keep people of all ages busy:

- Make a jigsaw puzzle for them to assemble - tear up a piece of paper on which you've written a clue, or a booklet in which you've written a journal entry. Or write a journal page and encode it with something easy, like "a=1, b=2, c=3," etc.

- Steal from Harry Potter book 1. Give them a logic puzzle to solve (A crossword, a handful of Scrabble pieces, or a "Junior Jumble" could all provide a password). Or play a quick or simplified game of chess or checkers - their characters have to "play their way" across the board and their miniatures replace a few of the pieces and must be kept "alive." Or play Pictionary; they have to draw something that will convince an oracle or talking artifact (AKA you, the GM) that they come from a certain place. Pick something from their backstory - they have to sketch their favorite tavern, the mountain pass where they were born, the castle of the king who sent them on the mission - and be lenient when they hand you a stick-figure sketch, so long as they make the effort. If you're convinced it looks like what they say it is, their characters have described it to the NPC's satisfaction.

- Use one of those pictures they put on the back of children's magazines - either "spot the differences" or "spot the hidden items." A "color-by-number" sheet with an arrow pointing the way or some other clue might also work.

- A 3-D puzzle they can use their hands with is to give them a limited number of items and challenge them to build something. For example, they could encounter a chasm to cross (make sure they can't use flight magic here, though), with a pile of lumber nearby. Then lay out a sheet of paper and some Jenga blocks, dominoes, or something similar (A handful of Legos, perhaps). Tell them to build a bridge over the paper -- without letting any of the blocks touch the paper. If they build it in real life, their characters have assembled it in the game. Or give them some paper and have them fold a paper airplane that can fly a given distance or hit a target, representing a glider they must build to carry their characters across. Or build a card castle. And so on.

- Go to your library and borrow anything by Martin Gardner. His Mathematical Pursuits columns (fifteen books worth) or Aha! Insight (two books) are packed with puzzles and brainteasers of all sorts.

- Here's a classic 19th-century puzzle: http://users.dickinson.edu/~richesod/horses.html

Wow, I'm giving myself ideas here! I must have subliminal ulterior motives... sorry... :smallredface:

[TheYell]

Ok getting out an actual board....

White: king at K6 , knight at k2, rook at krook2

Black: king at k8, pawns at qbishop7, kknight7, qbishop2, q2, bishop at qrook1, rook at qrook1, knight at qbishop6.

so white has the same solution in one move, rook to krook8 mate. if he doesnt black mmoves knight to q8 mate.

valid points are raised about it being a roll based game. BUT. I hate how the magic is boiled away from the experience. Like theres a feat called something like insoluble koan that stuns a creature for a round. do you even have to attempt to offer anything profound like "what charity do we owe the unjust?" nope you just "koan that ogre". so yeah let them roll to beat it but make them try first. give them a number of minutes equal to their intelligence modifier. but i support you giving depth to the game.

[veti]

Any mate-in-one puzzle basically boils down to "do you know the rules of chess?" It's either trivial, or insoluble. And as others have pointed out, it breaks the wall between player and character knowledge.

Mate in two can be at least a little challenging. More than that, it rapidly becomes quite challenging, particularly if your players are only (at best) casual chess players.

How about: use one of the "mate-in-one" puzzles linked above, but it's black to move, and the players' challenge is to prevent the checkmate for long enough to get themselves across the chessboard - moving, presumably, one square at a time...