Axe Juggling

[Xeolan]

So, in one of my games, i'm rolling as a half-orc fighter dual-wielding throwing axe. I'll stick with fighter for now since my build relies heavily on feats.

The common problem with thrown weapon builds is to manage the weapons themselves, each axes must be enchanted individualy unlike ammunitions that you enchant in stacks. While i know there's the bloodstorm blade lightning ricochet and the returning weapon property to solve the ammunition problem, my campaign starts at level 1, and i was looking for a more ''mundane'' way of getting back my axes.

So i developped the Perform(juggling) skill to fit my needs. Happily for me my DM bought the idea. What i'm wonderring now, is how legitimate my idea is by the core rules.

So here's what i came up with:

Perform(Juggling):

Make your thrown weapon ricochet on an enemy: DC 15 (on successful roll, you catch the weapon at the beginning of your next turn)

The player takes a penality to his roll equal to the penality he incures from any range increment penality ( so a -4 penality to attack roll reduces the skill roll by 4)

Taking more than a 5' step on your round: DC +5

Make your weapon return to you instantly instead of the next round: DC +10

Each weapon size category above small: DC +4

Masterwork weapons adds a +2 bonus to the skill check, since they're considered masterwork tools for juggling, and an additionnal bonus equal to any enhancement bonus on the weapon

The player can take 10 when not threathened.



From this set of rules, at lvl 1, Dex 16 and rank 2 in Perform, i can reliably throw and get my axes back when not threatened and while standing within 10 feet of my target (when using throwing axes) As i gain levels i'll be able to throw efficiently from further away, and at some point even get my axes back instantly, which allows me to carry only two axes at a time.

What do you guys think?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Seems fair, sure. At low levels, the check requires some investment and restrictions, but provides a useful ability; at higher levels, the check is easy, but so is finding a replacement (gloves of endless javelins come to mind).

- Weapon size categories don't exist in 3.5 - you mean light/one-handed/two-handed (unless you want Huge creatures to take a penalty throwing Huge weapons).
- You might use Sleight of Hand for the same thing, or to add a synergy bonus. The skill covers juggling, card tricks and other performances for money, as well.

[Feint's End]

Aside from the fact that this has nothing to do with juggling and makes no sense whatsoever it is fair mechanically. So I guess if your dm is fine with it then it sounds good

[Elkad]

Fighters deserve nice things. Including boomeranging axes around like Captain America with his shield.

That said, the "take 10 when not threatened" bit I have a problem with, if that means "stand out of AoO range and take 10 on every throw", as you've removed any chance of failure at all, starting at L1.

The rest of it is fine, just give that 1st level guy some chance of dropping his axes. If he loses half of them, he'll need a small handful to get through a combat, but not a duffelbag full.

[Gildedragon]

Perform(Juggling) is unnecessary
It is already covered under the uses of Sleight Of Hand

[Feint's End]

Perform(Juggling) is unnecessary
It is already covered under the uses of Sleight Of Hand

Pays to actually read what the OP is talking about.

@OP: Honestly I would remove the take 10 mechanic. Firstly it is poorly defined and secondly it makes even less sense than the skill already does. Just leave it as rng at low levels as eventually you'll grow into it anyways. Or just don't make it a skill at all.

[Big Fau]

For the future, when you can actually afford them, enchant Shurikens with the abilities you want and add the Morphing quality to them. This lets you enchant 10-ish different weapons for the cost of one, then just transform them into something that isn't going to be destroyed when used.

[Gildedragon]

Pays to actually read what the OP is talking about.

@OP: Honestly I would remove the take 10 mechanic. Firstly it is poorly defined and secondly it makes even less sense than the skill already does. Just leave it as rng at low levels as eventually you'll grow into it anyways. Or just don't make it a skill at all.

What I meant to say: no need to increase the number of skills.

To elaborate: more skills is bad, especially for a martial who is prolly not Int heavy, and skill strapped (needing already to have at least balance and tumble up, if not also stealth (To not hamper the party) and perception AND Intimidate)
Creating a whole new skill (that is not keyed to a martial's main stats) is counter productive.
Instead take the skill that sort of covers your interest (SoH for juggling) and adding functionality to it. Using SoH also makes more sense. 1)SoH is keyed off Dex (as ranged attacks often are) instead of Cha (as the perform skill is) 2) Take the hypothetical axe juggler: they can't juggle non-weapons (as that is a function of SoH). 3) even if you didn't like using SoH and really wanted to use Perform; the martial drill performance would make for a good pre-existing feat which allows the PC to substitute BAB for Cha

Overall in designing a new skill or skill trick one ought look at existing ones and try and avoid redundancy

I was not commenting on the viability of the ability but pointing out that a skill with the same "fluff" already existed

[Xeolan]

@OP: Honestly I would remove the take 10 mechanic. Firstly it is poorly defined and secondly it makes even less sense than the skill already does. Just leave it as rng at low levels as eventually you'll grow into it anyways. Or just don't make it a skill at all.

Yeah i thought about that, but then i thought about the sheer amount of rolls that my character would have to do, with dual wielding and rapid fire, thats 4 attacks per round, 6 at lvl 6, 8 at lvl 11, 10 at lvl 16, and more with haste. I just thought that someone who makes a profession out of juggling axes on an enemy would be able to take 10 when not threatened, just so i avoid slowing down the game for mundane rolls.



Perform(Juggling) is unnecessary
It is already covered under the uses of Sleight Of Hand

I have to admit that keying an axe juggling skill under dex would make more sense than one under cha, but i just don't see how making your weapon bounce on an enemy back to you is already covered under sleight of hand, am i missing something?

[Gildedragon]

Yeah i thought about that, but then i thought about the sheer amount of rolls that my character would have to do, with dual wielding and rapid fire, thats 4 attacks per round, 6 at lvl 6, 8 at lvl 11, 10 at lvl 16, and more with haste. I just thought that someone who makes a profession out of juggling axes on an enemy would be able to take 10 when not threatened, just so i avoid slowing down the game for mundane rolls.




I have to admit that keying an axe juggling skill under dex would make more sense than one under cha, but i just don't see how making your weapon bounce on an enemy back to you is already covered under sleight of hand, am i missing something?

just the fluff of dexterous manipulation of the object; the name of "juggling" that brings to mind bounce-juggling and makes it feel that proficiency in the martial application ought also reflect some proficiency in the entertainment application