Helping a new player with Anti-Magic Fields. 3.5 D&D.

[Metahuman1]

Ok, we recently had a new player join our 3.5 D&D group. She's never played a table top RPG before now. The player who initially brought her in helped her build her character. He felt that she needed to learn "The basics." and that the best way possible to do that was to make her a Fighter/Barbarian using only Players Handbook 1 and Dungeon Masters Guide for Item Shopping. Suffice it to say I am dubious of the wisdom of this path.


Party is 14th level. Notable casters are myself, a Sorcerer/Mage of the Arcane Order with a very nice custom rune staff, and a Cleric focused on DMM: Persist spell. We also have a swift blade who's heavily focused on the beating people part of it.


So, I've hit on the idea of trying to create some permanently animated objects, possibly using Shrink Object to make them size category fine, and giving them to her to give her help via Aid Another Actions to hit her targets and keep her AC up, offsetting penalty's for things like Power Attack, Charging, Raging, ext. I figured this will help her be more comfortable with the idea she needs to always be full power attacking, and should use Rage whenever possible.

The catch, however, is the DM LOVES to have bad guys with Anti-magic field generators + Turf that forces you into Anti-magic fields + Constructs that are immune to being inside Anti-magic fields to force you to fight to your significant disadvantage. Meaning that since she's gonna be in Melee, she's gonna spend a LOT of time hanging out were there is no magic to help her.

So, toward that end, I am seeking a way to make permanent, size category fine, animated objects, that will not be shut down in an anti-mangic field.




I have had as a possible initial idea, the though of reducing the effect time of the respective spells to Instantaneous, which, if I understand correctly, would mean that there technically isn't anything for an Anti-magic field to suppress, as the magic ended long ago, but the effects are still right there, front and center, helping. Is this a complete misunderstanding? If so, how should I be going about this? If not, how should I go about getting the duration down to Instantaneous?

Help is Greatly appreciated!

[Extra Anchovies]

So, I've hit on the idea of trying to create some permanently animated objects, possibly using Shrink Object to make them size category fine, and giving them to her to give her help via Aid Another Actions to hit her targets and keep her AC up, offsetting penalty's for things like Power Attack, Charging, Raging, ext. I figured this will help her be more comfortable with the idea she needs to always be full power attacking, and should use Rage whenever possible.

I believe creatures need to be able to reach their target to use Aid Another, so I think they'd need to be of at least Small size.


The catch, however, is the DM LOVES to have bad guys with Anti-magic field generators + Turf that forces you into Anti-magic fields + Constructs that are immune to being inside Anti-magic fields to force you to fight to your significant disadvantage. Meaning that since she's gonna be in Melee, she's gonna spend a LOT of time hanging out were there is no magic to help her.

Ew. AMF-happy DMs are annoying.


I have had as a possible initial idea, the though of reducing the effect time of the respective spells to Instantaneous, which, if I understand correctly, would mean that there technically isn't anything for an Anti-magic field to suppress, as the magic ended long ago, but the effects are still right there, front and center, helping. Is this a complete misunderstanding? If so, how should I be going about this? If not, how should I go about getting the duration down to Instantaneous?

You are correct that Instantaneous spell effects don't expire when their subject enters an AMF, but I can't recall any way to make a spell instantaneous off the top of my head.

[Metahuman1]

I believe creatures need to be able to reach their target to use Aid Another, so I think they'd need to be of at least Small size.



Ew. AMF-happy DMs are annoying.



You are correct that Instantaneous spell effects don't expire when their subject enters an AMF, but I can't recall any way to make a spell instantaneous off the top of my head.

Would a ranged attack work perhaps?



Yes, I'm inclined to agree.




What about ways to just reduce it's duration by stacking steps?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Hmm, you can give things reach with feats, of course, and very small creatures can still use reach weapons.

AMFs are annoying as hell to counter, especially on a mundane, so it looks bleak, in my opinion. I suggest infecting the character with lycantrophy ASAP, or whatever other "survive golems in hand-to-hand combat"-template the player prefers.

You can't turn a spell 'instantaneous' by fiddling with the duration. It's a bit like the gas mileage of a tuba: no amount of car tuning gets you there.

[zyggythorn]

Combat familiar on hummingbird does the trick. Also useful for tactical shenanigans

EDIT: anyof the party able to craft homunculi? Or boguns?

[Metahuman1]

The DM is only allowing 4 Lycan's in the game at this point, all NPC's except 1 PC's, who's his Wife and IC dating one of the NPC's. Else I'd have turned one of the other characters into a Werebear and wished away the Racial hit dice while ago.


zyggythorn: No, and what?

[Inevitability]

The DM is only allowing 4 Lycan's in the game at this point, all NPC's except 1 PC's, who's his Wife and IC dating one of the NPC's.

I must be in Soviet Russia, because there's red flags everywhere.

Seriously though: this seems a very clear-cut example of favoritism to me.

[Metahuman1]

In fairness she started the game as a Hegenyokai, and I made arraignments in game to get her shifted over to a lycanthrope earlier on.


At the time we were not having this particular problem, and I did not for see it.





As for the 3 NPC's, there all relatives and the last survivors of a major purge, were one was taken captive by the Dungeon-punk-magi-tech nazi bad guys of the game, 1 betrayed and backed said bad guys, and the last one was put under mind control magic till recently.

They've got a weird sort of Martial Arts Not-quite-but-almost Samurai-Viking Revenge subplot going on.





Again, wasn't a problem till, well, this cropped up a session or two ago.







And, seriously, there is NO way to work a spells duration to be Instantaneous? No class feature or feat or anything that can do it? I need like, a few castings ever and problem solved.

[ExLibrisMortis]

And, seriously, there is NO way to work a spells duration to be Instantaneous? No class feature or feat or anything that can do it? I need like, a few castings ever and problem solved.
The best you can do is supernatural and permanent (can't be dispelled, still affected by AMF) or epic magic/divine power (as in, literally getting a deity to do it for you). Making a spell instantaneous is about the most broken thing you can do. Imagine an instantaneous shapechange :smalleek:.

[zyggythorn]

To clarify:

Beget Bogun (spell compendium p26) Druid 1 spell.

Costs 25 XP, but creates a tiny construct that follows it's creator's orders 95% of the time, requiring a DC 11 diplomacy check the other times.

At your parties' level, there should be no problem getting a good few level 1 scrolls.

Homunculi are the same, but more expensive.

[Metahuman1]

Yeah but I don't want an instantaneous shape change. I want an Instantaneous Animate Object or comparable spell and an Instantaneous Shrink Item, maybe an Instantaneous Permanency or two if needed.

And if it doesn't deal with Anti-magic fields specifically, it's not helping. There not Dispel Magic happy, there Anti-magic field happy.




zyggythorn: That, could be arranged. We have a couple of Druid NPC's who are kindly disposed to the party at the moment, one of them could get the spells. My character could conjure up some crafting and a few skill rank boosters to create the items. And at this point I can probably convince them to let her retrain a couple of redundant weapons proficiency's into Open Mind feats to get Diplomacy up to 10 for the 5% of the time.


Now all I need is a way to get Shrink Item to be Instantaneous and work in an anti-magic field on them, and a way to give them a ranged attack.




Edit: Ya know what, this is proving a bit trickier then I'd expected. Time to bring out the heavy artillery.

*flips the switch, shining the light of the Emperor Tippy Signal.*

[zyggythorn]

Bogun stat block:

Bogun CR 1
N, CN, LN, NE, or NG Tiny construct
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Listen +1,
Spot +1
Languages telepathic link with master
AC 15, touch 15, flat-footed 12
hp 11 (2 HD)
Fort +0, Ref +3, Will +1
Speed 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 50 ft. (good)
Melee nettles +1 (1d4—2 plus poison)
Space 2-1/2 ft.; Reach 0 ft.
Base Atk +1; Grp —5
Atk Options poison (nettles, DC 11, 1d6 Dex/1d6 Dex)
Abilities Str 7, Dex 16, Con —, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 10
SQ construct traits (MM 307)
Feats Stealthy
Skills Hide +10, Move Silently +9

Because it has an Intelligence score, it can gain feats and skills. Consider finding a way to turn them into continuous buff machines (eternal wands is my suggestion here, but YMMV) they continue to function in an AMF, if my reading is correct, so giving them a simple +1weapon, like a sling or long spear (for reach)

They may also be able to gain class levels (with DM discretion) so give them a lv or 3 of disrupting attack rogue. Or Fighter, for BAB and Tactical feats. LN Bogun could qualify as Monk, which might be worth it for the poison it has, too.

[Metahuman1]

Armed with slings or some other ranged weapon, or maybe just a level of Warlock which is set to be otherwise utterly useless, might work.


Remember, I need these things to just be as itty bitty as possible so they can just float out of attack area range and drop Aid Another Actions on a party member to keep her AC and To Hit bonuses high enough to work.

[zyggythorn]

Place the boguns in small jars, with windows- such as bull's-eye lanterns.
Place lanterns on belt.
Ray effects can go through glass.
Counts as touching Barbarian for purposes of touch spells (cure spells, bulls strength, etc).
Give Boguns one lv of warlock, each.
Give Bog-locks eternal wands of (relevant spells).
Bog-locks have total concealment from aoe spells (such as fireball)
Behold your Bomb-barian.
Profit.

[Metahuman1]

Hmmmmmm, you know, layer those in as part of the armor to get protection against sundering and the like, yes, that could work. I'd still have to arm them with slings to get pas Anti-magic field it occurred to me, but that shouldn't be a problem.

Say, regarding using Aid Another to boost attacks, do you have to simply be able to make the attack roll at DC 10, or do you actually have to be able to inflict actual damage? Just so I know what I need to do for them here.


Also, ideas to give them roughly another +4-+5 consistently, on the cheap, to hit, that will work in an anti-magic field? (I'm mildly perturbed that something that size category is only sporting a 16 Dex and thus making me have to ask that question.)

[zyggythorn]

DC 10 to aid another, give them a ranged weapon and they go to +6 to hit (they have a -2 str, so that's why the BAB is bad).
At lv 4 warlock, they have a total of +9 to hit, so there's that.

And also, further shenanigans exist, but I generally top out at a low-mid optimization point, so Tippy or Troccatid are your best bet for further help

[Metahuman1]

Hmmmm,

Size: +2

Dex: +3

Listed BAB: +1

If I give them 1 level of fighter with point blank shot and weapons focus, that should total to an extra +3 as long as there inside 30ft, and they would be since there riding with the barbarian as support to the barbarians actual attacks, totaling +9, right? And then add even a nat 1 from the die roll, and we get +10, to always meet the DC, right?

[zyggythorn]

That would be about right, yes.

What I would suggest is that you actually create one Bogun per party member, because then you can go on adventures as the boguns, and give the DM/GM more incentive to allow this plan in the first place.

Have each player build their Bogun too, because it would be fun, and to crowd-source some shenanigans.