World Serpent Inn / Multi-verse game?

[schreier]

Has anyone had experience running a game that spanned the "multiverse" (to steal a comic-related term)? Basically, I'm considering a world-hopping campaign that starts at a low level, with the world hopping occurring through the world serpent inn. I was thinking of starting in Greyhawk (a relatively low magic realm), and moving into Dragonlance, then Ravenloft, then Eberron, and finally ending up in Faerun (the highest powered I think?)

Am I missing major canon worlds? Is that order good?

[Inevitability]

I'd argue Ravenloft is higher-powered than eberron. Eberron has only a handful of high-level characters, Ravenloft is literally built around them.

For settings, there's also Ghostwalk's setting, Rokugan and (if you consider it a setting in itself) Planescape.

[Amphetryon]

There's Dark Sun as well; it was canon in prior editions and was updated to 3.X via a vibrant online community. If memory serves, it also got a Paizo 3.X update in a Dragon Magazine. Al-Qadim had a Dragon Magazine issue updating it to 3.X as well, I think.

Whether those are 'canon' or not is probably debatable.

[Heliomance]

Also isn't the point of Ravenloft that you can never leave Ravenloft?

[SwordChucks]

I've been running a spelljammer campaign for about a year and a half now. Each crystal sphere has its own worlds and the players get their own mobile base in the form of their spelljammer (They named theirs "The Taken by Force"). It wasn't officially updated to 3.5 but there was a lot of work done by fans online and pathfinder is doing more in the same vein.

[Toilet Cobra]

Also isn't the point of Ravenloft that you can never leave Ravenloft?

A good Act 2 for any dimension-hopping story is the part where the protagonists lose the ability to keep going, and get trapped in some suck dimension! Ravenloft is perfect for that.

Related to this idea, I ran a game once where the players were visiting dozens of points in the history of an ancient empire. Each moment would, either directly or indirectly, lead to the end of that empire, so they had to change history over and over. Lots of fun! I heartily recommend. My best advice is don't make the mistake I did and let the players move at will between dimensions, or else they'll just use it as a free escape mechanism instead of actually fighting the scary stuff -_-

[Bronk]

I've been running a spelljammer campaign for about a year and a half now. Each crystal sphere has its own worlds and the players get their own mobile base in the form of their spelljammer (They named theirs "The Taken by Force"). It wasn't officially updated to 3.5 but there was a lot of work done by fans online and pathfinder is doing more in the same vein.

It's not ideal (because it changes a few things about the setting), but Spelljammer was updated to 3.5 in Dungeon92/Polyhedron151 and is a fun read.


My best advice is don't make the mistake I did and let the players move at will between dimensions, or else they'll just use it as a free escape mechanism instead of actually fighting the scary stuff -_-

Maybe have the entrance sometimes be guarded, sometimes move around, and sometimes only be active at specific times...

Or maybe they make enemies that have infiltrated the inn themselves... in that case, there could be some safe places, but they'd have to sneak or fight their way out and back in from time to time. Or leave, then try to find a safer way back in!

[ExLibrisMortis]

Dark Sun is pretty cool, because the different ages are really different (the sun changes colour, for one), so it might take your players a while to guess that their 'next plane' is actually another age of the same plane, and you've sneakily replaced the Gate with a teleportation mechanism. Note that Dark Sun has an anti-planar travel phenomenon, like Ravenloft, which could actually explain this.

[Troacctid]

Well, the World Serpent Inn issue of Dragon Magazine has some decent material for the Al-Qadim, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Planescape, and Ravenloft settings.

[Tiktakkat]

You've forgotten Mystara, the setting for BECMI that was switched to 2nd ed.

[dascarletm]

Maybe have the entrance sometimes be guarded, sometimes move around, and sometimes only be active at specific times...


I'm feeling a Sliders meets DnD crossover. The portals to other planes open at the speed of plot, and open at the point of plot. :smalltongue:

[DarkOne-Rob]

I am a huge fan of the World Serpent Inn, Yggdrasil the World Tree, Planescape, etc... Games like this take either a large investment of time to prepare on the part of the DM or plenty of direction from the (presumably knowledgeable) players (a la "sandbox"). That said, if done in a Play-by-Post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?51-Finding-Players-(Recruitment)) setting I would be all over this (especially if using the Pathfinder rules). Just a hint... :smallwink:

[Honest Tiefling]

My best advice is don't make the mistake I did and let the players move at will between dimensions, or else they'll just use it as a free escape mechanism instead of actually fighting the scary stuff -_-

As mentioned, there are ways around this. My suggestion? The 3rd edition rules for the World Serpent Inn make it very clear that while you cannot kill other patrons, there's plenty of things you CAN do instead. Move away from the well-travelled areas of the inn at your own risk sorta deal. Enough encounters with things larger and tougher then them with a whole slew of ways to get around the rules might be the answer. It could be seen as railroading, but...You ARE in an extraplanar inn where the common demon is considered small fry.

As for the order...What happens if the players want to deviate from this? I suggest mapping out several regions in each setting you desire to use you can quickly pull out in case they decide to go somewhere new, with a variety of challenge. For Faerun, for instance, Cormyr could be lower level, then up the ante with the Heartlands or the Border Kingdoms, and then finally put them smack dab in the Zhentarim stronghold of Zhentil Keep. I would bet dollars to donuts that the PCs are going to try to buck whatever careful order you have.

And if all else fails, just make up a setting or steal one from GITP. There are going to be thousands of multiverses, so a few unknowns might be cool to throw into the mix. And pulling the rug out from underneath them could make for a good stalling tactic.

Remember, no plot has ever survived contact with the player characters. Few plots last more then ten minutes.

[Âmesang]

I love cross-planar adventures; it's like, "so Han Solo and James T. Kirk walk into a bar…" :smallbiggrin: Stories swapped, magic traded, exploring "new" places; 2nd Edition seemed to be full of this stuff, PLANESCAPE® and SPELLJAMMER® not withstanding. Me being me, however, I have to keep track of dates to ensure that events are "relatively" correct…

The "Legacies of the Suel Imperium" article from DRAGON Magazine #241 featured two letters written to Mordenkainen, one from Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun of Waterdeep (FORGOTTEN REALMS®) and one from Johanna (formerly) of Almor (WORLD OF GREYHAWK®) in response to Khelben's. Based on their respective calendars Khelben's letter was written in late winter/early spring and Johanna's in late spring/early summer, so assuming the letters were written in the same year then it would infer that 1369 DR equals 585 CR.

I believe there are similar cross-planar events (Ed Greenwood's "The Wizards Three," at least) that would match those years up with 379 AC in DRAGONLANCE®; though, if I recall, "primal sorcery" didn't (re)appear on Krynn until 403 AC—magic was really screwy in Krynn around that time. :smalltongue: Honestly that could lead to some interesting plots all on its own.

…only dating comparison I haven't quite figured out (yet) is EBERRON®, since the only crossover event I'm aware of is the "Menace of the Underdark" event in Dungeons & Dragons Online; despite being a 3rd Edition-based game the event occurred during 4th Edition's run, so the best I can come up with (so far) means the above dates would match up with 888 YK (putting it six years before the start of the Last War and seventy-seven before the creation of the "modern era" warforged).

(I never played D&D Online, so does anyone know if it ever used actual dates… like, at all?)

EDIT: That reminds me of wanting to run "Age of Worms" combined with "Return to the Ghost Tower of Inverness," "Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk," and "Castle Maure/Warlock's Walk." That takes care of four of the eight Octychs, so assuming one is in the possession of Mordenkainen I had thought about putting the remaining three in Abeir-Toril, Eberron, and Krynn.

[schreier]

Definitely add Dark Sun I think, Planescape, and Al-Qadim.

And you're right about the order being potentially difficult to manage, although since no one (except potentially the owner and innkeeper) can predict/control where the Inn goes next, there can be some control - course players can always try and find ways to break things.

It would be a lot of fun to have major NPCs show up (almost like in Baldur's Gate the game) - have Mordekainen, Elmisnters, Raistlin, Parsalin, Strahd ....

Could even work in non-D&D worlds (at least ones that translate reasonably well) -- Shanara was covered in a dragon magazine, as was game of thrones (to some degree) - so could run across Allanon, Jon Snow ... almost like Quantum Leap or Sliders (as was mentioned) or Voyagers ...

The game could be used to allow DMs to switch in and out, as the "worlds" change at any point. Could even work in PBP (as was mentioned/requested)

[GreyBlack]

My primary campaign setting (I call it Arkea) is, quite literally, built on that premise; the entire multiverse in all of its infinite possibilities is built onto the back of a World Spirit. If it is a Material Plane, it exists. The primary difference is that the World Spirit (who I've jokingly statted out as, "An infinite number of levels in an infinite number of classes from an infinite number of timelines, past, present, future, and imaginary") can only be accessed through the Primary Material Plane of Arkea, which can grant some... significant benefits to anyone who travels into the Well.

This (along with other lore weirdness) basically necessitates the high-powered characters to jump between different Material Planes to thwart the intentions of the... gods? Again, more lore weirdness, but the Second Order gods are essentially trying to prevent the apocalypse by overthrowing the First Order gods, who are all subservient to the World Spirit.

Long story short? It's a blast to run players through the world and watch them interact with the settings, all while trying to prevent the imminent destruction of the multiverse as they know it.

[Eldan]

I always thought of the World Serpent Inn as a miniature copy of Sigil, really. Never found it that interesting.

[schreier]

I always thought of the World Serpent Inn as a miniature copy of Sigil, really. Never found it that interesting.

I don't think anyone feels that it is particularly unique - the idea has existed in many works of fiction. Variants on the eme include Callahan's Crosstime Salon, or the Hall of Worlds in Midkeima ( http://www.crydee.com/raymond-feist/faq/4219/how-did-you-think-up-the-hall-of-worlds ), or Milliways (from the Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy)

It's so prevelent, it's even a trope:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InnBetweenTheWorlds

That being said, it can make fun stories.

[Eisfalken]

Technically, multi-verse still exists in 3.5 canon via Plane of Shadows, which specifically mentions that it "may" connect various cosmologies. I simply presumed "may" meant "did", and that it's just a matter of moving "deeper" into the Shadow to find the proper paths to other cosmologies.

Sigil is a far more useful place as the basis of a plane-hopping game. It's got all the weirdness of the World Serpent Inn, but there's still an element of danger because people can be killed and stuff, but if things get out of hand than the dabus (or, heavens forbid, the Lady of Pain herself) can take steps to stabilize the situation. Basically, the DM just decides how much crap the dabus/Lady are willing to put up with, and when the line is crossed, you drop a warning or two before bringing down the boot (well, the maze, but you get the point).

If Sigil isn't to your liking, screw it, just create a demiplane in the Astral Plane and make it a city (I believe that's the premise of Union from ELH, but I never read up on it much). Then just institute whatever kind of social order there you want (or lack thereof).

[Honest Tiefling]

You might not be able to be killed outright in the World Serpenet Inn, but third edition material did explicitly point out that a lot of things had ways around this. (Such as a Vampire dominating people). Would that make the World Serpent Inn MORE dangerous then Sigil, since it lacks any sort of organization enforcing order?

[Inevitability]

You might not be able to be killed outright in the World Serpenet Inn, but third edition material did explicitly point out that a lot of things had ways around this. (Such as a Vampire dominating people). Would that make the World Serpent Inn MORE dangerous then Sigil, since it lacks any sort of organization enforcing order?

Well, there is the barkeeper, who may or may not be the World Serpent itself.

[BWR]

You have mostly incompatible Multiverses in various D&D settings and the attempts of games like SJ and PS to shove everything into a single setting doesn't always feel right. You have different planar systems that somehow, supposedly, all exist in the same way, causing some weird ad hoc solutions to make the various settings work from both directions (DS and especially Eberron suffer from this). Bring in something like Rokugan and it gets even worse (the spirit realms there bear little resemblance to established D&D planes without a LOT of monkeying about).
Mystara has a solution already built in: it's multiverse is designed and works quite differently than the Great Wheel or Eberrons phasing mess, but it has dimensions. If you take the entire multiverse you know - inner planes, outer planes, Prim, Astral Ethereal and all - cram it into a page: you have a dimension. Then you can stack countless other dimensions on top of each other in any order or number you please. Now you can do whatever you please without worrying about how all these various planes don't fit together.

[jedipilot24]

I was thinking of starting in Greyhawk (a relatively low magic realm), and moving into Dragonlance, then Ravenloft, then Eberron, and finally ending up in Faerun (the highest powered I think?)
9
Am I missing major canon worlds? Is that order good?

Dragonlance is THE low-magic setting; I highly doubt that Greyhawk has even less magic, because Krynn doesn't even have divine spellcasters for several large chunks of its history.
While the arcane spellcasters are not trusted, even by their allies; in the case of wizards because the way that the evil Black Robes are tolerated by the White Robes and Red Robes. In the case of sorcerers, when they actually exist (Krynn sorcerers have different fluff than standard Sorcerers), they aren't trusted because their magic has been tainted by Chaos, who is Krynn's Elder Evil.

[schreier]

I could see starting with Dragonlance as well - could even be fun to start here in the pre-apocalypse Shannara world (i.e. Earth today) - have them run into the innkeeper or something, someone that will help them transition to a class .... then progress through various worlds (seemingly random, but realistically under DM control)

As far as access to the Inn - how does this item look:

The Serpent Key
(maybe look like this?)
https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xaf1/t51.2885-15/s320x320/e15/11296780_1439877809655513_1930403295_n.jpg

This key, made from some aged bronze-like metal, has a head that looks like a serpent biting its own tail and a fleur-de-lis as its teeth. It is one of the few devices that is crafted to provide access to the transient location known as the World Serpent Inn. If the user knows the activation word (ouroboros), and traces a rectangle shape in or around an entryway (door, archway, or something similar) at the right time, it will allow the user and any desired companions to travel to the front door of the World Serpent Inn. This must be done within 5 minutes of either sunrise or sunset, and the effect lasts for 1 minute.

The user (and companions, if any) arrive at the World Serpent Inn. The user may make another rectangle in any of the many entryways of the World Serpent Inn, and then return to the last location where they used the key. This return trip only works while within the World Serpent Inn. If the user leaves the World Serpent Inn, then the key may be used to draw another door to the Inn at the proper time, at which point the prior destination will be overwritten. However, if the user returns to the World Serpent Inn without drawing another door, then he could use it to return to the prior location.

The locations are stored at the user level, so multiple users could exchange use of the key to store multiple destinations.


How does that look? It restricts time to dawn/dusk for both thematic reasons (it seems cool), and to make it useless as an escape tool in the middle of a battle. It could be further restricted (if necessary) by requiring the doorways be located in an Inn or similar establishment, but that seems excessive.

Thoughts?