Exchange rate: USD -gp

[UndeadArcanist]

I'm curious if anyone has figured out the exchange rate between a modern US dollar and a gold piece in 5e. I know that there are probably lots of inconsistencies, but has someone found a decent rule of thumb?

[MaxWilson]

I generally think of it as 1 gp = $100, based on the price of bread, chickens, and weaponry.

To some extent that's an overestimate because medieval economies aren't as productive as modern ones, and in some ways it's more like $50, but usually I think of it as $100.

[MrStabby]

Well relative prices for different goods will be wildly different.

I suggest trying to compare manual labour costs across the two worlds. Check to see if a level 15 wizard (maybe equivalent to a one in one - thousand skill level skilled worker (top doctor, banker, footballer or whatever) is comparable.

[pwykersotz]

I use 1gp = $50. It's close enough for jazz and easy to convert.

[NecroDancer]

I tend to value 1 gold between 50-100 dollars

[Easy_Lee]

5e is weird since, throughout history, a good coin was considerably more valuable than it is represented here. It's a fantasy thing. Edit: may have something to do with magic and working alchemy.

Riding horses cost 75 gold. War horses cost 680gp, but military stuff is always more expensive. If we assume that the average price of a riding horse coincides with the average horse price today, we can compare it to about $5000 for a trail-ready riding horse in the US.

So about $66.7 / 1 gold coin.

[Belac93]

Well, a chicken costs 1 cp in dnd, but about 15 dollars in real life. A decent knife costs about 30-100 dollars, and is 2 gp.

D&D economy doesn't translate well into real life.

[MaxWilson]

Well, a chicken costs 1 cp in dnd, but about 15 dollars in real life. A decent knife costs about 30-100 dollars, and is 2 gp.

Nitpick: FYI, a chicken is 2 cp.

Source: http://www.5esrd.com/equipment/trade-goods

[IShouldntBehere]

There is no possible exchange rate. Even a loose rule of thumb is just going to be wildly off base. Right now I can go out McDonalds and get a Hamburger for a dollar and some change. That's a meat sandwhich, with considerably higher quality meat than I'd probably get in most D&D settings, on refined white bread, with several kinds of vegetables & a sauce. I can get said meat sandwhich for an amount of money that if I labored at the minimum legal wage would take me less than 30 minutes to earn all taxes included.

Our industrial economy simply in now way resembles the pre-industerial economy of most D&D settings and that's ignoring how magic might muddle things. Whatever the buying power of a gold coin there's just no good way to convert that.

If you say convert on the price of a chicken, the price clothes & weapons will be way out of whack. If you convert on the price weapons, the prices food & clothing will be way off. The relative value of goods has shifted so much you may as well be asking for the conversion rate to a currency of a race of slug-people living on the an ice moon in the Andromeda galaxy.

[dickerson76]

Nitpick: FYI, a chicken is 2 cp.

Source: http://www.5esrd.com/equipment/trade-goods

This site (https://www.efowl.com/Barred_Plymouth_Rock_Chickens_p/1032.htm) says you can get chickens for ~$2.75. So, if 1gp = $100, that's roughly equivalent to 2.75cp. Not too far off.

...and now I know a website for buying live chickens.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I did some calculations based on historic inflation and the price of gold by weight and came out with 1gp = $200. It holds up well for some things (such as the minimum wage vs. unskilled hireling pay) but $100 might be closer for others. Also easier to work with.

Either way, tossing gold coins to beggars on the street (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur%27s_Gate) is way more generous than it seems.

[pwykersotz]

Right now I can go out McDonalds and get a Hamburger for a dollar and some change. That's a meat sandwhich, with considerably higher quality meat than I'd probably get in most D&D settings...

Woah...there's real meat in a McDonalds sandwich? :smalltongue:

[Quintessence]

Making my games pay to win from now on, 1 GP for $100.

[krugaan]

Making my games pay to win from now on, 1 GP for $100.

I lol'ed at that but really ...

$100 per level instead.

[pwykersotz]

I did some calculations based on historic inflation and the price of gold by weight and came out with 1gp = $200. It holds up well for some things (such as the minimum wage vs. unskilled hireling pay) but $100 might be closer for others. Also easier to work with.

Either way, tossing gold coins to beggars on the street (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur%27s_Gate) is way more generous than it seems.

This was actually why I created an equivalency, flawed though it may be. It gave some appreciation for the actual value of currency.

[gkathellar]

5e is weird since, throughout history, a good coin was considerably more valuable than it is represented here. It's a fantasy thing. Edit: may have something to do with magic and working alchemy.

I just assume it's not actually gold, since carrying a sack of it doesn't give your character severe lumbar problems.

[Doug Lampert]

I just assume it's not actually gold, since carrying a sack of it doesn't give your character severe lumbar problems.
Historical coins were SMALL.

The pennyweight is 643 to the kg. That's a historical silver coin. The gold solidus was MUCH heavier, only 222 or so to the kg. There weren't all that many gold coins pre-renaissance, gold was simply too valuable to circulate most places.

(Amusingly, various books tell me that the solidus was an almost exclusively rural coinage, urban people had no need for a coin that valuable, but the rural population used tally sticks and the like for small transactions, and only used coins for things like paying off a large debt or buying a cow or something else expensive; I've seen roleplaying sourcebooks get that exactly backward and claim that it's only the urban populace that uses the big coins).

D&D 3.0 and later coins were a uniform 50 to the pound (110 to the kg, so basically two solidus or a threepence coin). Not unprecedented, but quite large historically. Earlier editions were 10 to the pound (absurdly heavy)

tldr: D&D coinage is too heavy, not too light. Coins of realistic weights won't give you lumbar problems at the numbers of coins the game will let you carry.

[the_david]

If you use the current price of gold, you'd come out at $395 for 1 gp. Now for the more important question: What's the Big Mac standard in Waterdeep?

[Belac93]

This site (https://www.efowl.com/Barred_Plymouth_Rock_Chickens_p/1032.htm) says you can get chickens for ~$2.75. So, if 1gp = $100, that's roughly equivalent to 2.75cp. Not too far off.

...and now I know a website for buying live chickens.

That is for baby chickens, which you have to raise yourself (which is not much fun, believe me). Adult chickens chickens (or, they'll be adult when you get them), cost $15.75, according to this website. (http://www.strombergschickens.com/prod_detail_list/Adult-Standard-Chickens)

[ClintACK]

Depends what you want to do with the comparison.

Even in the real world, the "Exchange Rate" is just one way to measure the difference between two currencies and the financial systems of two nations. Or even two parts of a nation -- the cost of living in Manhattan and in Montana are radically different, even though your salary and expenses are using the same U.S. Dollars with a 1:1 exchange rate.


The piece of information I like for trying to get a feel for the real costs of things in the D&D universe is are wages and the cost of living.


Hireling
Skilled 2 gp per day
Untrained 2 sp per day

So I'm imagining about 1gp = $500, if you imagine an "untrained" employee putting in a ten-hour day at $10/hour. And a skilled craftsman (like an auto mechanic) getting ten times that.

But then I guestimate about 1 gp = $100 if I look at this:
Lifestyle Price/Day
Wretched —
Squalid 1 sp
Poor 2 sp
Modest 1 gp
Comfortable 2 gp
Wealthy 4 gp

When you put the two together, things look really ugly. Two untrained laborers working full time to support themselves and two kids can barely afford a Squalid lifestyle -- which is described as "Most people at this lifestyle level have suffered some terrible setback. They might be disturbed, marked as exiles, or suffer from disease." And even that lifestyle is beyond their reach if they are trying to support one of their elderly parents (who is helping with the child care).

So...

yeah...

Ugly.

It probably works out better if you imagine the "untrained" rate as a starting salary, with most people making two or three times that with ten years of experience, and most people starting to work shortly after puberty.

Really makes you appreciate how good we've got it, though.

[Vogonjeltz]

Either way, tossing gold coins to beggars on the street is way more generous than it seems.

I think the problem stems from the trope of gold often being the sole unit of currency in many fantasy settings/video games. If players had a better living world understanding of the currencies they'd probably come to recognize that most characters are actually using coppers/silvers more consistently than they are using gold pieces.

Like, nobody should be spending gold at taverns typically unless they're flashing alot of money. A purse of gold is intentionally a big deal, that's enough money to pay rent and feed yourself for a month(s) for most people.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I think the problem stems from the trope of gold often being the sole unit of currency in many fantasy settings/video games. If players had a better living world understanding of the currencies they'd probably come to recognize that most characters are actually using coppers/silvers more consistently than they are using gold pieces.

Like, nobody should be spending gold at taverns typically unless they're flashing alot of money. A purse of gold is intentionally a big deal, that's enough money to pay rent and feed yourself for a month(s) for most people.

Yet when the mayor says "thank you for driving off the orc raiders. Please, take this 50gp reward," the players always look disappointed... Like, dude, that's 5 to 10 thousand dollars he's just given you! For two days' work! :smallsigh:

[Belac93]

I like changing the gold rates around. A silver is the standard currency, a gold is worth what a platinum once was, copper is what silver was, and iron is what copper was.

Sometimes I lower it even further, and make copper the standard.

[gkathellar]

I like changing the gold rates around. A silver is the standard currency, a gold is worth what a platinum once was, copper is what silver was, and iron is what copper was.

Sometimes I lower it even further, and make copper the standard.

Iron coins don't really make sense, as it's far too much work to make one for something that has no utilitarian function and needs to come in the hundreds of thousands if not millions.

More importantly, precious-metal coins exist because governments could not guarantee the value of money in much of the world. Gold, silver, and even copper had value in whatever form you encountered them, and could even be cut up into pieces. An iron coin, on the other hand, has little inherent value - and if you don't need inherent value, everybody should just be using bank notes.

[Ninja_Prawn]

and if you don't need inherent value, everybody should just be using bank notes.

Or brass. Brass is light, durable, resists corrosion and looks like gold. It makes sense for lower denominations, given how fragile paper money can be.

[Laserlight]

Yet when the mayor says "thank you for driving off the orc raiders. Please, take this 50gp reward," the players always look disappointed... Like, dude, that's 5 to 10 thousand dollars he's just given you! For two days' work! :smallsigh:

a) "5000 coins" sounds better than "50 coins". Pay them in copper.
b) $10,000 for two eight-hour days for five specialists is $125/hour. I can see wanting a bit more than that, if I were a mercenary special ops soldier.

[georgie_leech]

a) "5000 coins" sounds better than "50 coins". Pay them in copper.
b) $10,000 for two eight-hour days for five specialists is $125/hour. I can see wanting a bit more than that, if I were a mercenary special ops soldier.

At the same time though, unless it's a truly staggering number my group mentally attaches 'cheap bastard' to anyone that pays them in copper. And the well paying ones get 'annoying bastard' instead.

[Laserlight]

At the same time though, unless it's a truly staggering number my group mentally attaches 'cheap bastard' to anyone that pays them in copper. And the well paying ones get 'annoying bastard' instead.

How about "five hundred silver"?


I'd be inclined to circumvent the issue by using denari and ducats or something like that.

[Calen]

Another way to look at it.
1gp = $455

Stock Market price for gold.

[UrsusArctos]

USD does not convert to gp. Prices in D&D are based off a medieval economy with considerably different values for prices compared to the modern world. Labor, supplies and craftsmanship have all be changed drastically from the time period that D&D tries to model.

For instance, a telescope in 5E costs 1,000 gp. With a conversion of $100 to 1 gp, that's $100,000 for a spyglass. However, one could buy a modern telescope that is considerably better than what you would be purchasing in 5E for only $4,000.

That's the most extreme example, but the situation is similar for weapons and food.

[georgie_leech]

How about "five hundred silver"?


I'd be inclined to circumvent the issue by using denari and ducats or something like that.

Fair point, I was mostly just commenting on the copper part. The principle as a whole is sound.

[Vogonjeltz]

That is for baby chickens, which you have to raise yourself (which is not much fun, believe me). Adult chickens chickens (or, they'll be adult when you get them), cost $15.75, according to this website.

Conversely Safeway sells whole roasted chickens for half that, ~7-8; the problem is there's market variance, the prices in the PHB/DMG are just to give an idea of approximate relative value to the other goods located there.


Yet when the mayor says "thank you for driving off the orc raiders. Please, take this 50gp reward," the players always look disappointed... Like, dude, that's 5 to 10 thousand dollars he's just given you! For two days' work!

Hah, yeah, it's probably worth it to note just how much money that is to a small town, that could represent all the saved money of a village of farmers and simple craftspeople.

I do like the level of immersion they put into 5th edition in terms of the meaning and consequences of various living styles, and how money can be spent in the off hours, or simply to subsist.

[IShouldntBehere]

Hah, yeah, it's probably worth it to note just how much money that is to a small town, that could represent all the saved money of a village of farmers and simple craftspeople.

I do like the level of immersion they put into 5th edition in terms of the meaning and consequences of various living styles, and how money can be spent in the off hours, or simply to subsist.

Also since you don't need an arsenal of rare magic items, it's much easier to run a game for heroes who aren't richer than entire noble houses by the mid levels of adventuring. A quest to save the world doesn't necessarily going hand in hand with becoming Scrooge McDuck rich. You can still do that if you want, but it's also perfectly reasonable to go through the game and not wind up the worlds 5th largest economy.

That just wasn't viable in 3.P.

[gkathellar]

Prices in D&D are based off a medieval economy

Not a coherent economy, certainly, or an economy resembling any economy that has ever existed anywhere in the world.

[pwykersotz]

Not a coherent economy, certainly, or an economy resembling any economy that has ever existed anywhere in the world.

Wait...Medieval England didn't have healing potions for sale? :smallconfused:

[krugaan]

Wait...Medieval England didn't have healing potions for sale? :smallconfused:

Lol, what about the mythical 10' ladder tree, that enterprising individuals would harvest for ladders and then cut into 10' poles for a tidy profit?

[pwykersotz]

Lol, what about the mythical 10' ladder tree, that enterprising individuals would harvest for ladders and then cut into 10' poles for a tidy profit?

I'm pretty sure those were a thing. It's how the peasantry put their children though Knight school.

Ba dum...tch!

[PracticalM]

Also since you don't need an arsenal of rare magic items, it's much easier to run a game for heroes who aren't richer than entire noble houses by the mid levels of adventuring. A quest to save the world doesn't necessarily going hand in hand with becoming Scrooge McDuck rich. You can still do that if you want, but it's also perfectly reasonable to go through the game and not wind up the worlds 5th largest economy.

That just wasn't viable in 3.P.

On the other hand, when you casually mention a few sunken ships off shore and the players see how much it is for a ship and start figuring out how their magic and abilities can start raising those ships for profit (and sneaking them out from under the local noble's nose) there something to be said to ensure that the players feel like they have enough money to get by.

[krugaan]

I'm pretty sure those were a thing. It's how the peasantry put their children though Knight school.

Ba dum...tch!

LOL!

Well played, sir.

[bulbaquil]

If I have to convert, I use 1 gp = $100, but am aware that trying to convert wages and prices in a medieval economy (where, realistically, they could be five times as much in location A as in location B, and vary wildly depending on what goods are commonly vs. rarely available there) to those of a globalized industrial economy with fiat currency and a bunch of external recurring costs that have no real equivalent in medieval times is borderline impossible, and so I try to avoid doing it.

[Kane0]

'Bout a $100 I suppose.

[georgie_leech]

If I have to convert, I use 1 gp = $100, but am aware that trying to convert wages and prices in a medieval economy (where, realistically, they could be five times as much in location A as in location B, and vary wildly depending on what goods are commonly vs. rarely available there) to those of a globalized industrial economy with fiat currency and a bunch of external recurring costs that have no real equivalent in medieval times is borderline impossible, and so I try to avoid doing it.

Worth noting that that sticks the poverty line at about... huh, actually, the real poverty line already isn't that far off from $36500. I thought that would be a bit more off, but that's actually a pretty decent approximation, apparently.

[Reaper34]

1 gp= $436.64 gold is $1364.50 per ounce USD. buying power is closer to 1 to 100.

[Easy_Lee]

Another factor: D&D has a lot more unskilled labor due to (most likely) nonexistent public education in most places. Spell casters can do all sorts of crazy things, including fabrication. And gold may not be as rare in the Forgotten Realms world as it is here. Plus, we utilize advanced technology to produce a lot of the things that were once more expensive, especially food.

So there's probably no good comparison. That said, as above, I find it troubling that two unskilled laborers working full time can barely support two children at a squalid rate. The kids will have to work, too, unless there's a discounted cost of living for everyone living under the same roof.

[MeeposFire]

Worth noting that that sticks the poverty line at about... huh, actually, the real poverty line already isn't that far off from $36500. I thought that would be a bit more off, but that's actually a pretty decent approximation, apparently.

That would depend on how many people you are putting in the household and what criteria you are using. For example the Federal poverty line threshold for a household of 4 is just over 24,000 in the USA in 2015. 36 would be 50% more money so not great but would not be poverty on its own (though I will say it REALLY matters where you live 36k in NYC is nothing but in West Virginia you can get quite far with it).

[georgie_leech]

That would depend on how many people you are putting in the household and what criteria you are using. For example the Federal poverty line threshold for a household of 4 is just over 24,000 in the USA in 2015. 36 would be 50% more money so not great but would not be poverty on its own (though I will say it REALLY matters where you live 36k in NYC is nothing but in West Virginia you can get quite far with it).

I'm a city boy myself, so I was looking more at the big cities because there's a more pronounced difference between the two. But I was mostly expecting to point out that was way more than the actual poverty line, like three or four times more, only to find it was quite a bit less than I guessed. Just goes to show you shouldn't make sweeping judgements without actually doing the math or thinking about it first.

[DiceDiceBaby]

So there's probably no good comparison. That said, as above, I find it troubling that two unskilled laborers working full time can barely support two children at a squalid rate. The kids will have to work, too, unless there's a discounted cost of living for everyone living under the same roof.

Not to open the discussion to one of the horrors of global poverty, but based on the replies to this thread, I'm assuming most of the posters here live in the U.S. or some other developed country. I live in Europe, but I'd like to point out that there are countries in the world today that I've visited where the above quoted situation is a sad reality. Did some social work with them on occassion. Often families like that have their children walk barefoot on the street selling small goods such as candies, cigarettes or handcrafted goods for additional income (Why only two children though? Families in that situation tend to have three or more...) while the parents work full time (assuming both parents are together), or the husband works and the wife sets up a mom and pop enterprise to augment their income in the informal sector of the economy. They often have to live in squalid conditions as described in the PHB, and are usually informal settlers building shanties out of whatever they have in unused lots in urban populations.

Because of this, perhaps using the USD as a benchmark to "convert" D&D into real-life currency probably isn't a good idea.

That said, in economic terms, it's hard to find a modern day value for the D&D GP because the traditional way of calculating exchange rates doesn't hold, in the same way that the U.S. dollar (or any other currency) today doesn't have the same purchasing power it had 30 to 50 years ago. Way back when, you could buy a lot more with a penny than you can now, so if you insist on using the modern USD rate for the D&D GP, you'll have to consider things such as taxes, the presence of comparable goods in the market, the fact that goods become cheaper due to trade (or more expensive due to barriers for trade), import and export from countries that produce cheap labor, and so on. Too many factors for which the PHB doesn't provide enough information.

We don't know if the Plate Armor or the Chain Mail in the PHB is made in a low-income community and shipped into cities for adventurers to buy, or even how it comes into being. I'd imagine that, if the means of production for a certain good were shifted to someplace cheaper (think of how an enterprising young Half-Elf would have Goblin shields made and sold to cost 5 GP and provide +2 AC, and compete with Dwarven shields would cost 10 GP and provide the same + 2 AC), which would you choose? D&D implies a multicultural, interracial fantasy world in a medieval setting, but doesn't factor in the necessary changes in the economy that cheaper creation of goods and services would entail. You mean to tell me that a shield, regardless of material (being made of wood, steel or gemstone) or make (Elven, Dwarven or Orc) always costs only 10 GP and only provides +2 AC? PHB says yes, but no thriving economy can be that stagnant or that universal.

Unless there's a D&D single market entity (and since this is D&D, there probably is at least one inter-dimensional god or goddess of the economy) that dictates a universal price (and I mean multiversal, since the prices for goods are apparently the same on Eberron, Greyhawk, the Forgotten Realms, and every homebrew world ever made, despite them being different planes of existence) that goes against the principles of a free market economy espoused by theorists such as Adam Smith (think a Keynesian economy where the government, nay, an omnipotent being, has total price control over all prices of all goods in the multiverse), there isn't any way that the market of D&D would function like a real one. This isn't Social Scientists and Sorcerers; D&D is a globalized world without the economic repercussions of globalization. Try not to think too much about it. :smallwink:

[Ninja_Prawn]

-snip-

As they say, Karl Marx hates your guts (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KarlMarxHatesYourGuts) (warning: TVTropes link).

[Seppo87]

I believe that instead of comparing the cost of single things (a chicken, a meal, a horse) one should look at the cost of life for a commoner who has a low to average job in the tertiary sector (and thus doesn't produce his own goods and food).
Assuming these jobs exist instead of being done for free by slaves of course!

This person needs a house (and reparations), clothes (and changes), food, services, and some little entertainment.

How much does this person spend a month? How much is the average cost of life in the US for some guy working at mcdonald's?

That's your conversion target.

[gkathellar]

Assuming these jobs exist instead of being done for free by slaves of course!

Hey. Serfs aren't slaves! They're just ... in a contract of servitude that requires them and all their descendants to work the land, forfeit half of all their product, and forbids them from leaving. Not slavery.

This post brought to you by: feudalismandmonarchyaremorallyindefensible.gif