1e rule proficiencies

[stewstew5]

Can someone please explain weapon proficiencies in 1e to me? I cannot understand the p. Handbook and u. Arcana is useless.

[BigBadHarve]

Characters must take the weapon proficiencies to use that weapon without penalty. Each class starts with a specific # of proficiency slots, and gain more as they level.

The degree of the penalty is also based on the class. Fighters, for example, are -2 when using a weapon they are not proficient in, whereas Magic Users are -5.

[Thrudd]

The proficiency rules are in the Weapons section, under the Equipment heading. A table lists how many weapons each class gets at level one, and at what levels they gain new proficiencies, and what the penalty is if they use a non proficient weapon. At the beginning of the Class chapter, it lists what weapons and armor each class is allowed to choose from for their proficiencies.

So a fighter gets to choose from all weapons, they begin with four weapons and get a new one every three levels (new weapon at level four, seven, ten, etc), and are at -2 if they use a non proficient weapon.

magic users gets to choose from dagger, dart or staff, they begin with one weapon, get a new one every six levels (level 7, 13), and have -5 on non proficient weapons.

unearthed arcana has weapon specialization rules, only for fighters, that involve using multiple proficiency "slots" on the same weapon to get bonuses with it.

With 1e, you really need to read the entire book from front to back in order to find everything, that goes for the PHB and DMG. Gygax did not have good editing or organization. You can't just look for chapter or section headings to find stuff, because information isn't always where you'd think it would be.

[LibraryOgre]

A note: There's also some disagreement on using weapons outside your proficient ones.

For some people, you may only use the weapons on your allowed list; it is not possible to effectively use weapons not on that list. For other GMs, you may only gain proficiencies on weapons on your allowed list, but you may always try unproficient use with weapons outside that list. So, in the first groups' ideas, a thief can never use a two-handed sword... they just can't manage it in any way effectively. In the second, the thief could use the two-handed sword, but always at a penalty.


With 1e, you really need to read the entire book from front to back in order to find everything, that goes for the PHB and DMG. Gygax did not have good editing or organization. You can't just look for chapter or section headings to find stuff, because information isn't always where you'd think it would be.

To be fair, editing and organization have gotten a TON easier since the late 70s, or even the late 80s. But, yeah, combine unclear word choices with difficult editing and it's a bit of a slog.

[MeeposFire]

For me I always like prof slots but hated weapon proficiencies. I like the slots because it was a way to customize your character with all the eventually cool options such as weapon styles, weapon specialization/mastery, and other combat and non-combat profs. That said I hated their original purpose since it really limited my fun since it made it hard to play the old weapon master of all weapons and the like. Too expensive and slow. The ones it hurt the most are classes like fighters since they are supposed to be masters of weapons but are effectively punished if they do so.

I think earlier and later versions of D&D got it right by making classes automatically proficient with a bunch of weapons based on class. I do think keeping the slots is a good idea though as it can let you really flesh out a character especially those fighter types who otherwise do not get too many ways to do so mechanically.

[BigBadHarve]

That said I hated their original purpose since it really limited my fun since it made it hard to play the old weapon master of all weapons and the like. Too expensive and slow.

That's exactly how it works out in the end, warriors are so good with weapons, that as they level up the -2 penalty becomes insignificant. It only really matters at the beginning of the character's career.

Even at 3rd level, the warrior classes essentially have the equivalent of 1st level ability with ANY weapon. By the time you're 7th level, you have 6 weapons that you use at no penalty, and can still wield any other weapon as if you were at 5th level, which is still major leagues above anyone else. And this doesn't factor anything else like magic weapons, or high strength... this is just raw talent.

You just don't get to start out as a master of all weaponry, you have to survive and earn it.

[LibraryOgre]

That's exactly how it works out in the end, warriors are so good with weapons, that as they level up the -2 penalty becomes insignificant. It only really matters at the beginning of the character's career.

Even at 3rd level, the warrior classes essentially have the equivalent of 1st level ability with ANY weapon. By the time you're 7th level, you have 6 weapons that you use at no penalty, and can still wield any other weapon as if you were at 5th level, which is still major leagues above anyone else. And this doesn't factor anything else like magic weapons, or high strength... this is just raw talent.

You just don't get to start out as a master of all weaponry, you have to survive and earn it.

And, at 7th level, you're miles ahead of other 5th level weilders, because you get an extra half attack each round (unless you're a ranger, then you don't get that until 8th level)

[BigBadHarve]

And, at 7th level, you're miles ahead of other 5th level weilders, because you get an extra half attack each round (unless you're a ranger, then you don't get that until 8th level)

This is also true!

Unless you're playing with one of those meanie-head DMs who take that away if you're not proficient.

Jerks.

[LibraryOgre]

This is also true!

Unless you're playing with one of those meanie-head DMs who take that away if you're not proficient.

Jerks.

Yeah, but that's not BTB.