Swashbuckler Sneak Attack.

[SMac8988]

So in my new session I have a player who has chosen to go swashbuckler. Which is great, allows him to still be that off rogue but is giving him a way to be himself in the character. Being a bit more vocal in combat then a normal rogue would.

But my question is, how exactly does his sneak attack work. I read the explanation for his, swashbuckler thing. And it says long as it's basically a one on one fight. But then it says the rest of the rules apply. Does this mean he can normally sneak attack as well? Like if he is flanking or has advantage as well? Just curious and make sure the ruling is correct to say yes he gets both.

[MaxWilson]

Yes, Swashbuckler can still take advantage of the normal sneak attack rules too.

[Jamesps]

So in my new session I have a player who has chosen to go swashbuckler. Which is great, allows him to still be that off rogue but is giving him a way to be himself in the character. Being a bit more vocal in combat then a normal rogue would.

But my question is, how exactly does his sneak attack work. I read the explanation for his, swashbuckler thing. And it says long as it's basically a one on one fight. But then it says the rest of the rules apply. Does this mean he can normally sneak attack as well? Like if he is flanking or has advantage as well? Just curious and make sure the ruling is correct to say yes he gets both.

That is correct. The swashbuckler gives additional sneak attack options on top of what he already had through second level. He doesn't suddenly forget how to sneak attack regularly when he takes the subclass.

[Theodoxus]

That is correct. The swashbuckler gives additional sneak attack options on top of what he already had through second level. He doesn't suddenly forget how to sneak attack regularly when he takes the subclass.

That's the best explanation I've seen yet. A lot of people at my table were like 'wait, you can pretty much sneak anytime? That's OP, you shouldn't be able to get it when a regular rogue can, plus when you're one on one! I just smile and nod... and get sad that I don't have mage hand or fast hands... ;)

[Easy_Lee]

That's the best explanation I've seen yet. A lot of people at my table were like 'wait, you can pretty much sneak anytime? That's OP, you shouldn't be able to get it when a regular rogue can, plus when you're one on one! I just smile and nod... and get sad that I don't have mage hand or fast hands... ;)

It's remarkable how quick people are to assume one thing, then get mad when someone points out an alternative. WotC is particulary good at this.

Rogues getting sneak attack is not broken. Consider for a moment that, even with maximum sneak attack damage, a rogue still does far less damage than a typical raging barbarian. The rogue can't really spread it out among multiple targets either.

[Dalebert]

It's not all the time but yes, he does have many ways to get it so he will still get it usually. That's fine. Rogues are intended to get it usually already.

He won't get it if he has more than one enemy within 5 ft but no allies and has no advantage. That may not be common but it will happen from time to time.

[georgie_leech]

It's not all the time but yes, he does have many ways to get it so he will still get it usually. That's fine. Rogues are intended to get it usually already.

He won't get it if he has more than one enemy within 5 ft but no allies and has no advantage. That may not be common but it will happen from time to time.

This. It encourages the Swashbuckling Rogue to engage in one on one fights so they can do some proper Errol Flynning, or take advantage of Mook Chivalry. But they still have the usual gamut of ways to negate sneak attacks, and their new method doesn't function against proper discipline where their enemies support each other.

[D.U.P.A.]

It is more a question when he is NOT getting sneak attack. When it has disadvantage or when is attacking an enemy grouped together without allies nearby?

[Joe the Rat]

1 on 1: good
2 on 1 (you have a buddy): good
1 on 2+ (he has a buddy): not good
2+ on 2+ (pick up game): good

All of the above superseded by:
Advantage: good
Disadvantage: not good.

The first one is the only new option for Swashies. Use that maneuverability to draw your opponent away from his friends, and preferably towards yours.

[Theodoxus]

It is funny, I have +9 to my initiative (rolled damn good stats, starting 20 Dex and 18 Cha) and went first in every combat last session...but not once did I have a solo target to race up to... everything was clustered. I would rush in, strike and rush out the first round, and then subsequent rounds would get my sneaks as the party consists of a barbarian, monk and fighter as well as me (plus a life cleric and a crossbowman, er sorcerer... no, crossbowman, he's used 1 spell, once).

I took Alert at 4th level - though we just leveled at the end of last session. My party will probably just shake their head with my +14 Initiative... can't wait for the initiative keeper to ask "Higher than 20?" and i say "31" - lol. But yeah, someday, we'll start combat and I'll have a lone target I can sneak that first round...

[Dalebert]

It is more a question when he is NOT getting sneak attack.

If he has more than one enemy adjacent AND no ally adjacent AND doesn't have advantage for some reason. It's not really less complicated to think in those terms IMHO. It's easier to go down a list of things that DO grant it and then just stop if any one of them is checked off. If you make it all the way down the list without a "yes", he doesn't get sneak attack, e.g.

1) Does he have advantage? Yes - sneak attack. No - maybe. keep going.
2) Does he have disadvantage? Yes - no sneak attack. No - maybe. keep going.
3) Does he have an ally close enough to be threatening his target? Yes - sneak attack. No - if he's a swashbuckler, keep going. Otherwise no sneak attack.
4) Is there only one enemy adjacent to him? Check - sneak attack. No - no sneak attack.

[Arial Black]

It is funny, I have +9 to my initiative (rolled damn good stats, starting 20 Dex and 18 Cha) and went first in every combat last session...but not once did I have a solo target to race up to... everything was clustered. I would rush in, strike and rush out the first round, and then subsequent rounds would get my sneaks as the party consists of a barbarian, monk and fighter as well as me (plus a life cleric and a crossbowman, er sorcerer... no, crossbowman, he's used 1 spell, once).

I took Alert at 4th level - though we just leveled at the end of last session. My party will probably just shake their head with my +14 Initiative... can't wait for the initiative keeper to ask "Higher than 20?" and i say "31" - lol. But yeah, someday, we'll start combat and I'll have a lone target I can sneak that first round...

I find it hard to believe that, going first, you could not move to a position where you were adjacent to one - and only one - enemy so you could Sneak Attack him and then retreat.

Is every enemy formed up in a straight line, wall to wall?

[georgie_leech]

I find it hard to believe that, going first, you could not move to a position where you were adjacent to one - and only one - enemy so you could Sneak Attack him and then retreat.

Is every enemy formed up in a straight line, wall to wall?

It's not whether the Swashbuckler is adjacent to more than one enemy, but if that enemy has any of their allies on hand at the start of combat. And if that's consistently the case Theodoxus, give the Wizard or whatever a nudge to toss out some AoE CC and Ready an Action to attack once you get Advantage. Since all their oomph is in a single attack, Rogues are some of the least hampered by Readying their attack instead of attacking directly.

[Arial Black]

It's not whether the Swashbuckler is adjacent to more than one enemy, but if that enemy has any of their allies on hand at the start of combat.

No, the Swashbuckler can use Sneak Attack "if no creature other than your target is within 5 feet of you".

Your target can have allies next to him if he wants, but as long as none of them are also next to you at the moment you attack, then you can use your Sneak Attack if you are a swashbuckler.

[RickAllison]

No, the Swashbuckler can use Sneak Attack "if no creature other than your target is within 5 feet of you".

Your target can have allies next to him if he wants, but as long as none of them are also next to you at the moment you attack, then you can use your Sneak Attack if you are a swashbuckler.

Indeed. I flavor it as the Swashbuckler needing room to pull off those distracting flourishes. When an ally is near, it is hampered but the added tactical power makes up for the restriction. When a second enemy approaches, the Swashbuckler can't make the flourishes to distract and penetrate the defenses of the target because then the second enemy can just stab him.

[georgie_leech]

No, the Swashbuckler can use Sneak Attack "if no creature other than your target is within 5 feet of you".

Your target can have allies next to him if he wants, but as long as none of them are also next to you at the moment you attack, then you can use your Sneak Attack if you are a swashbuckler.

...huh. I don't know how I managed to misread that, but misread it I did. Objection withdrawn.