Mage Slayer Feat & ready an action Questions

[WereRabbitz]

1st the Mage Slayer Question:
So i'm a little confused on the Mage Slayer Feat. 2 of the spells 3 benefits require a person to cast within 5ft of you.

Even if I Misty Teleport over next to the mage and hit him, whats to keep him from just walking away and casting 10ft or further from me? A Paladin could use ensnaring strike or maybe sentinel to try to keep the player from moving, but other then those the feat by it's self doesn't seem to help much beyond the disadvantage on their concentration checks when you hit them.

Whats to stop a caster from using something like Misty Step to teleport 30ft away and then move another 30ft way out of my reach unless I charge/dash?


2nd Question Ready and Action:
If I am standing next to a prone caster and I choose to either Ready an Action as "if he gets up I want to shove him back down"
Does that interrupt the Casters turn when he tries to stand up? How would that play out turn wise?

Thanks!

[Slipperychicken]

1st the Mage Slayer Question:
So i'm a little confused on the Mage Slayer Feat. 2 of the spells 3 benefits require a person to cast within 5ft of you.

Even if I Misty Teleport over next to the mage and hit him, whats to keep him from just walking away and casting 10ft or further from me? A Paladin could use ensnaring strike or maybe sentinel to try to keep the player from moving, but other then those the feat by it's self doesn't seem to help much beyond the disadvantage on their concentration checks when you hit them.

Whats to stop a caster from using something like Misty Step to teleport 30ft away and then move another 30ft way out of my reach unless I charge/dash?


2nd Question Ready and Action:
If I am standing next to a prone caster and I choose to either Ready an Action as "if he gets up I want to shove him back down"
Does that interrupt the Casters turn when he tries to stand up? How would that play out turn wise?

Thanks!

Mage slayer, per RAW, doesn't actually stop mages from doing anything. It just lets you attack them. If your DM is kind, he may houserule a concentration check to see if the mage drops the spell he's casting.

A mage can disengage out without provoking a reaction attack, then cast misty step afterward. He can also not disengage and take the opportunity attack if he thinks that's worth it. He may dash and then misty step to get 90 feet away and buy some time.

If you use a readied action to shove a mage prone, that doesn't stop his turn. It does use your reaction though, so he could just misty step out and crawl away at half speed. He could also just stand up again.

[WereRabbitz]

Mage slayer, per RAW, doesn't actually stop mages from doing anything. It just lets you attack them. If your DM is kind, he may houserule a concentration check to see if the mage drops the spell he's casting.

A mage can disengage out without provoking a reaction attack, then cast misty step afterward. He can also not disengage and take the opportunity attack if he thinks that's worth it. He may dash and then misty step to get 90 feet away and buy some time.

If you use a readied action to shove a mage prone, that doesn't stop his turn. It does use your reaction though, so he could just misty step out and crawl away at half speed. He could also just stand up again.

Gotcha.. so Mage Slayer is best partnered with things like Sentinel or Ensnaring Strike things that can allow me to react when they try to move away or can root them in place and force them to cast while i'm beside them it sounds like.

Otherwise it sounds like a losing game trying to stay within 5ft of a mage lol.

[Slipperychicken]

Gotcha.. so Mage Slayer is best partnered with things like Sentinel or Ensnaring Strike things that can allow me to react when they try to move away or can root them in place and force them to cast while i'm beside them it sounds like.

Otherwise it sounds like a losing game trying to stay within 5ft of a mage lol.

I think the best thing you can do is have caster allies with dispel magic and counterspell. Those are what keep mages from trying anything funny.

[Sneak Dog]

If you force him to spend his action on disengage, you're already winning.

[BiPolar]

If you force him to spend his action on disengage, you're already winning.
Exactly. And if he disengages and misty steps, then he's not only burned his action and his bonus action, but he's also down a 2nd level spell.

What Mageslayer does is make you especially good at dealing with mages. When you do hit him, he's got disadvantage on his concentration save and if he casts spells while still within 5' you can hit him with a melee attack as your reaction.

In the case you presented, he would only do the disengage/move/misty step move once he knows you can counter his other abilities. If the DM metagames the caster like that, it's a crappy move. Yes, a mage is always going to try and escape as much as possible from a melee character, but there may be other options. He may try and shocking grasp you, but at the point of spell cast (before effects) you can use your reaction to attack him.

[Specter]

Think of Mage Slayer's attack as the Frenzy's Retaliation, but geared towards casters, not warriors. If you get close to one they'll either spend all their resources to run, or take more damage staying in place. Win-win for you, lose-lose for them.

[WereRabbitz]

Think of Mage Slayer's attack as the Frenzy's Retaliation, but geared towards casters, not warriors. If you get close to one they'll either spend all their resources to run, or take more damage staying in place. Win-win for you, lose-lose for them.

True, but with another martial fighter at least they normally have to be in range of 5ft to hit me, but with casters.

I can shove them prone and then can spend half their movement standup. then move 10ft away and nuke me with a spell and i don't get to use my Advantage on saving or reaction options.

It seems if you want to stop a mage you need to take the Grappler Feat & Proficient in Athletics.


Although... the disadvantage for them to maintain concentration checks cannot be ignored that is pretty nice on casters who normally don't have too beefy of a CON ability score anyway.

[BiPolar]

True, but with another martial fighter at least they normally have to be in range of 5ft to hit me, but with casters.

I can shove them prone and then can spend half their movement standup. then move 10ft away and nuke me with a spell and i don't get to use my Advantage on saving or OA options.

It seems if you want to stop a mage you need to take the Grappler Feat & Proficient in Athletics.


You are already stopping them from casting their spell (or hurting/killing them/ending their concentration if they decide to cast anyway). That's why you're the mage slayer. Keeping them in place is icing on the cake and you can make a build that does that well, but it doesn't impact the already big effect you had which was basically taking that mage out of for the round.

[Specter]

True, but with another martial fighter at least they normally have to be in range of 5ft to hit me, but with casters.

I can shove them prone and then can spend half their movement standup. then move 10ft away and nuke me with a spell and i don't get to use my Advantage on saving or reaction options.

It seems if you want to stop a mage you need to take the Grappler Feat & Proficient in Athletics.


Although... the disadvantage for them to maintain concentration checks cannot be ignored that is pretty nice on casters who normally don't have too beefy of a CON ability score anyway.

I don't believe the point of the feat is to stop mages from casting, but to, you know, slay them.
5e's casters are already downgraded compared to 3.5 ones. If all it needed to shut them down was a feat, then it would be a very OP feat.

But I wouldn't worry; you should be doing your job. If your party is going up against a caster, they should be contributing by dispelling/counterspelling them and providing tactical leverage (proning/controlling them), anyway. You smash.

[Tanarii]

Grapple. Without mage slayer, you're preventing movement at the cost an attack. With it, you're preventing movement, plus getting your attack back if the Mage tries to cast his way free (or to make a spell attack).

[Easy_Lee]

According to tweets, the opportunity attack from mage slayer doesn't trigger until after the spell is cast, and you have to be aware of the spell. That means shocking grasp, subtle spell, spells with long casting times, and any type of teleportation will prevent a mage slayer opportunity attack. The caster is free to misty escape, and doesn't have to disengage to stop himself from being hit. If your opponent has misty escape, or a similar teleport, that would arguably break a grapple.

Basically, you aren't locking down a caster without spells like silence, dispel magic, anti magic field, and counterspell. In other words, only casters can lock down casters.

[Tanarii]

According to tweets, the opportunity attack from mage slayer doesn't trigger until after the spell is cast,Interesting. It does fit with the way that 5e generally doesn't allow interrupts unless specified.

[BiPolar]

Interesting. It does fit with the way that 5e generally doesn't allow interrupts unless specified.

Wow. So they basically broke one of main aspects of mage slayer. WIth all that and what we've been talking about, there are better feats to pick.

[BRC]

With Mage Slayer, don't forget about the advantage on saves vs spells cast within 5 feet, that can be a lifesaver.

As for "Misty Step Beats Mage Slayer", yeah, but it's kind of a unique case because it's a bonus action, and even then you've limited them to a cantrip for their standard action.


Consider, I'm within 5ft of a mage.

The Mage could cast a spell as normal, in which case I stab them in the face. If they have any concentration effects up, they have disadvantage to keep them.
The Mage could try to leave, then cast the spell. Marginally better, because I won't have advantage on the save, but I still get to stab them in the face, and an attack from a primary martial character is nothing to sneeze at.
The Mage could use Shocking Grasp on me, but then I've limited them to using a Cantrip, and any turn where an enemy spellcaster only casts a single cantrip is a good turn in my book.
The mage could Misty Step away, similar to Shocking Grasp this denies me my extra attack, but once again they're limited to a cantrip for their primary attack, and they just burned a 2nd level spell slot.
Shocking Grasp and Misty Step are primary counters, but even in that case they're just using a cantrip, instead of, say, Fireballing my entire party. Meanwhile, I'm doing what I want to do anyway as a martial melee character, getting up into my opponent's face.


(I once used Mage Slayer to kick a wizard off a dragon, dispelling his fly spell in the process, so I have a strong personal attachment to the feat)


as for "Pushing somebody back down", this is one of those cases where resolving things afterwards actually benefits you.
It takes half your movement to stand up, so the Caster would use half their movement to stand up, but once they've stood up your readied action triggers and you push them back down. Now, they could stand up again (They have the move for it), but they couldn't go anywhere, since it would cost half their movement again.

That said, they would still have their Action to use. I guess they could stand up again, then use their action to Dash away from you.

[MBControl]

I'd rather have the wizard misty stepping, and dimension dooring around the battlefield all encounter, rather than raining down fireballs.

A disadvantage on concentration is not a bad thing either. Just ask your party member the next time they're caught in a Hold Person spell.

As far as the readied action goes, that is up to the DM. If I were running your game, it would depend on the circumstances. If this is mid-battle, I'd make the bad guy make a strength check against you. If it fails it hits the deck and ends it's turn, if you fail, it can get up with half movement, and resume it's turn. If your opponent is all but defeated (1-2 remaining HP), I would just let you do that.

[Fflewddur Fflam]

Wow. So they basically broke one of main aspects of mage slayer. WIth all that and what we've been talking about, there are better feats to pick.

It's a pretty crappy feat, frankly. You want a mage slayer? Just play a monk.

[Easy_Lee]

Trouble is that the mage can just cast a spell and ignore your attack. The only way to make it useful is to combine it with high mobility and something better than a regular attack. A shadow monk, vengeance paladin, or rogue might be able to make use of the feat.

But if you're looking for a way to actually lock casters down, not just chase them around a little bit better, then you have to play another caster.