A question about constrict and grapples

[thecrimsondawn]

So let me get how this works right, and I will use monster rules to keep it simple here.
I have a monster with grab. He attacks, he does damage, and he gets a free grapple check.
Lets say he succeeds. Does constrict apply here? I thought I read somewhere that whenever you maintain a grapple you do your single natural attack damage, and then it again, + any constrict damage you may have in the entry.

Next turn, the person that is being grappled fails his check to get out. He suffers no ill effects since it is not the monsters turn. Do I have this right?

My turn again, I make my check to maintain the grapple at +5. If I do, I can opt to damage my opponent with no attack roll needed since I am maintaining my grapple. Does constrict apply to the same damage roll? AKA - you double your damage + any additional constrict damage that may be listed in the description?

and one last question
Lets say the monster in question has the burn special ability. Whenever you deal damage with one of your natural attacks you also do your burn damage to the target. They must also make a save or catch fire. Lets assume the damage is 5d6 or so. Would this damage apply to only the grapple part or the damage roll, or both the grapple and constrict part? I would assume if constrict is part of the same action it would only apply once, but I want to make 100% sure I have these rules down. Also would being grappled effect their ability to make a Ref save to avoid catching on fire?

Thanks in advance :)

[Diarmuid]

Constrict
A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, after making a successful grapple check. The amount of damage is given in the creature’s entry. If the creature also has the improved grab ability it deals constriction damage in addition to damage dealt by the weapon used to grab.




Constrict (Ex)*

*A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check (in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage). The amount of damage is given in the creature's entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature's melee attack.

FAQ
When a creature with constrict grapples a foe, when does it deal constrict damage?

A creature with constrict deals this additional damage every time it makes a successful grapple check against a foe. This includes the first check to establish the grapple (such as when using the grab universal monster rule).


Not sure if you're playing 3.5 or PF, but the wording is similar enough in both cases I think. The important part is the "..every time it makes a succesful grapple check against a foe.". This creates a very binary logic:

Attack foe
Did I hit, Yes, deal weapon damage
Did I just damage a foe, Yes, make grapple check to initiate Grapple
Did I make a successful grapple, Yes, deal Constrict damage

The PF FAQ even deals with your exact question and clarifies it.

As for the rest of it, in 3.5 Maintaining the Grapple just means that you have moved into their square during the initial Grapple check. In the next round, you have all of the options listed under "If you're grappling" available to you. One of those is "damage an opponent" (-4 to your grapple check if you want to deal lethal). That action uses a Grapple Check, vs "Attack an Opponent" which uses a normal attack roll again with -4 . If you choose "damage your opponent" then you're making a Grapple check and if you success, then you can deal Constrict damage as part of that action. I dont know if there's a specific rule calling it out but I would say the Constrict is part of the Dmg your Opponent so you'd only get the Burn once.

[thecrimsondawn]

I have this grapple flow chart I downloaded and nowhere does it say anything about a -4 to hit while grappling. In fact, it only says you gain a +5 to maintain the grapple and if you succeed on that, then you may inflict damage. Its still iffy about the burn damage tho since if constrict inflicts damage during the maintaining the grapple phase, then its a different phase of the grapple chart that you inflict damage to with your natural attack. However if the constrict rules are the same, then it applies one way or another, but the natural attack damage from the grapple is just added on if you intend to hurt them.

[Psyren]

To avoid confusion I'm going to stick to PF rules since that is the tag on this thread.

In PF, Constrict deals bonus damage every time you succeed on a grapple check. This includes both establishing a grapple and maintaining one, and it applies to multiple successes in a single round (e.g. if you have Greater Grapple/Rapid Grappler.) This damage applies even if you also used the grapple check itself to do damage, and it applies no matter how you established the grapple (e.g. grappling normally, or for free via Grab etc.)

Now for your specific scenarios:

"I have a monster with grab. He attacks, he does damage, and he gets a free grapple check. Lets say he succeeds. Does constrict apply here?"

Yes.

"Next turn, the person that is being grappled fails his check to get out. He suffers no ill effects since it is not the monsters turn. Do I have this right?"

Yes.

"My turn again, I make my check to maintain the grapple at +5. If I do, I can opt to damage my opponent with no attack roll needed since I am maintaining my grapple. Does constrict apply to the same damage roll?"

Yes, you would get both the maintain damage (since you chose that option) and the constrict damage (since you succeeded at a grapple check.)

"and one last question
Lets say the monster in question has the burn special ability. Whenever you deal damage with one of your natural attacks you also do your burn damage to the target. They must also make a save or catch fire. Lets assume the damage is 5d6 or so. Would this damage apply to only the grapple part or the damage roll, or both the grapple and constrict part?"

Burn applies to "successful hits." Grapple checks are CMB checks, which are all attack rolls, therefore you will deal burn damage every time you succeed at such a check and deal damage (i.e. once per attack, not once per damage roll.) They will also take this damage if they attack you.

[thecrimsondawn]

To avoid confusion I'm going to stick to PF rules since that is the tag on this thread.

In PF, Constrict deals bonus damage every time you succeed on a grapple check. This includes both establishing a grapple and maintaining one, and it applies to multiple successes in a single round (e.g. if you have Greater Grapple/Rapid Grappler.) This damage applies even if you also used the grapple check itself to do damage, and it applies no matter how you established the grapple (e.g. grappling normally, or for free via Grab etc.)

Now for your specific scenarios:

"I have a monster with grab. He attacks, he does damage, and he gets a free grapple check. Lets say he succeeds. Does constrict apply here?"

Yes.

"Next turn, the person that is being grappled fails his check to get out. He suffers no ill effects since it is not the monsters turn. Do I have this right?"

Yes.

"My turn again, I make my check to maintain the grapple at +5. If I do, I can opt to damage my opponent with no attack roll needed since I am maintaining my grapple. Does constrict apply to the same damage roll?"

Yes, you would get both the maintain damage (since you chose that option) and the constrict damage (since you succeeded at a grapple check.)

"and one last question
Lets say the monster in question has the burn special ability. Whenever you deal damage with one of your natural attacks you also do your burn damage to the target. They must also make a save or catch fire. Lets assume the damage is 5d6 or so. Would this damage apply to only the grapple part or the damage roll, or both the grapple and constrict part?"

Burn applies to "successful hits." Grapple checks are CMB checks, which are all attack rolls, therefore you will deal burn damage every time you succeed at such a check and deal damage (i.e. once per attack, not once per damage roll.) They will also take this damage if they attack you.

Thank you, this answers so many of my questions, but it does bring about a few more.

Greater and Rapid grappler allow you to make more then 1 grapple check a round. If you succeed your grapple check to maintain the grapple, but fail one of the other two, is the grapple released?

What I am making is a huge, maybe gargantuan sized animated object construct focused on grapples and burn. I will be adding a brain to it for feats and skill points as well so I have some room to make it even more nasty.
I am considering style feats, path of war content, and all manor of ways to make this thing as scary strong as I am able, but frankly, with no limit on how many times I can pay for the burn feature, I can really just go 40d6 burn damage 3 times a round and call it a day.

[Psyren]

Greater and Rapid grappler allow you to make more then 1 grapple check a round. If you succeed your grapple check to maintain the grapple, but fail one of the other two, is the grapple released?

Nope - you only need to succeed at one. Any subsequent failures will not release the grapple. (See Greater Grapple for this language.)



What I am making is a huge, maybe gargantuan sized animated object construct focused on grapples and burn. I will be adding a brain to it for feats and skill points as well so I have some room to make it even more nasty.
I am considering style feats, path of war content, and all manor of ways to make this thing as scary strong as I am able, but frankly, with no limit on how many times I can pay for the burn feature, I can really just go 40d6 burn damage 3 times a round and call it a day.

That would push its CR pretty high. Gargantuan AOs have 5 CPs to spend, i.e. 5d6 burn total with no other abilities. If you then wanted an additional 35 Burn and Grab, you'd push the CR of the finished product to 27.