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View Full Version : Low intelligence, High wisdom character being played as low wisdom?



MonkeySage
2016-08-02, 02:12 PM
So, I've got a player who's character has very low intelligence; he's a ranger, and has high enough wisdom to cast spells at least...

So he walks into a room in a dungeon, and puts on necklace without thinking; now he's broadcasting his thoughts to everyone around him. Could have been worse, it could have been a necklace of strangulation.
But I'm concerned; that wasn't something a wise character would do, even with low intelligence.

CarpeGuitarrem
2016-08-02, 03:01 PM
<shrugs>

We all have our bad days.

Lord Haart
2016-08-02, 03:07 PM
Well, first, i don't really see a question here.

And second: telling other people how to play their characters is a Very Uncooth And Dangerous Thing That You Can Only Do If It's Important Enough To Risk Alienating That Player Or Spoiling The Game For Him.

That is, it is a Very Uncooth And Dangerous Thing if the character in question is a paladin with mechanically-reinforced sacred vows, or a WOD vampire on blood bond, or under a subtle mind-controlling effect, or is primarily someone else's character given to the player in question because the original player is absent this session. In any other case it's just Not A Thing To Do At All.

Still concerned? Consider these: one, mental stats aren't very well-defined (even if they were, they shouldn't be straightjackets). Every other gamer has his own idea what a big disparcity in mental stats could look like, and in the end behavior is more than a function of mental stats anyway — it's part of a role, so you can plausibly have two low-int high-Wis character who are very different in their interactions with the world. There is no "right" interpretation. Two, a ranger's Wisdom score is often interpreted to be more of a natural world-savviness and alertness; it doesn't necessarily mean that he's familiar with the more civilisation-based dangers of putting on random shiny items and going with strange people when they tell you that they'll have great fun with you. Knowing that some necklaces are not simple swag but magical and harmful might be a function of Wisdom, might be a function of knowledges (and therefore Int), or just a function of this individual's personal life experiences (he might get more careful with necklaces in the future, after all) — and to remind, Wis does not correlate with life experience (other than some age boosts); a young cloistered cleric who takes his first journey outside of the monastery probably has higher Wis than Conan the Epically Experienced Ass-Kicker, Princess-Swayer, Serial Throne Abdicator, Ancient-Grimoirs-Never-Again-Toucher.
Which brings me to another point: in D&D, stats are kinda bound to your performance in a particular class. If you play a ranger and you want to use spells, you either raise your Wis high enough to do so even if you wouldn't if it weren't required, or you find a mechanical option that lets you replace it with another stat (often at a cost), or you homebrew/ask your DM to switch. One of these is easier than the others. Is a person obligated to roleplay high wisdom if it just wanted to play a spellcasting woodland-savvy archer and got saddled with high Wis because it wouldn't work otherwise? I think not. An arguement could be made for obligatory roleplay of low stats, but high ones are supposed to, you know, benefit and be linearly better than low ones, not to have their own meta-drawbacks.

Also, while i guess you've actually seen a lot of similar behavior from him, you've actually cited only a single accident. And no person who ever lived has been "too wise" to ever have a royal "herp derp can i take that back" moment. In D&D, gods do incredibly stupid things, and they do have mental stats written down (and they're kinda out of human range, no matter how much they try to make us believe otherwise).

nedz
2016-08-02, 04:04 PM
Maybe the player has a low wisdom ?

Max_Killjoy
2016-08-02, 04:07 PM
Never been a fan of the INT/WIS divide. Hard to be really wise when you're too dumb to know better most of the time.


Which brings up a saying that makes me chuckle every time.

"Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit... wisdom is knowing to not put it in a fruit salad."


:smallbiggrin:

Jay R
2016-08-02, 04:39 PM
High character Wisdom cannot make up for low player wisdom.

TheIronGolem
2016-08-02, 05:12 PM
So, I've got a player who's character has very low intelligence; he's a ranger, and has high enough wisdom to cast spells at least...

So he walks into a room in a dungeon, and puts on necklace without thinking; now he's broadcasting his thoughts to everyone around him. Could have been worse, it could have been a necklace of strangulation.
But I'm concerned; that wasn't something a wise character would do, even with low intelligence.

Maybe the player just gave the character enough WIS to be able to cast spells/have a decent Will save/be good at certain skills because that's what fits his character concept. In any case, ability scores do not dictate personality. A positive WIS mod is not a permanent injunction on impulsiveness.

goto124
2016-08-02, 10:00 PM
I've always mentally replaced "Int" and "Wis" with "Wizard Spellcasting Skill" and "Ranger Spellcasting Skill" respectively.

Not sure what that does to the Knowledge skills, but I've been playing CRPGs for a while,

Joe the Rat
2016-08-03, 10:26 AM
Don't judge a book by its cover, and don't judge a stat by its name.

What does Wisdom do?
Perception
Social Awareness
Willpower
Divine Casting (see: Willpower)
Be a Doctor (sometimes)

I don't see "lick of common sense" anywhere in the game functions, or even inherent to any of those tasks. Profession (__) is closest to using it, but could as easily be attributed to perception or social awareness.

What does Intelligence do?
Know Stuff
Find Stuff Through Deliberate Evaluation
Analyze Stuff
Make Stuff (sometimes)
Break Stuff (sometimes)
Wizard Casting

This is probably a closer, in that the functions are things we associate with smart people (though knowing something and knowing what to do with something are two very different things).

Stupid choices like that are perfectly in character for Mr. Don't Know Jack or Mr. Can't See Jack. Low Charisma (talking, socializing, and most forms of Arcane casting) gives you excuse - or is in character for any foot-mouth intersections.

Max_Killjoy
2016-08-03, 10:45 AM
A characteristic or skill in a game system should, by its very name, tell us what it maps and what it does.

"Wisdom"

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/wisdom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom
https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/wisdom
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wisdom

Final Hyena
2016-08-03, 11:28 AM
Even the wisest and most knowledgeable of us are prone to a mistake here and there, especially when we see that thing we want.

Or he's chaotic stupid.... Only time will tell!!!

Ralanr
2016-08-03, 11:58 AM
Maybe the player has a low wisdom ?

I'm one such player sometimes.

On low int high wise characters, I just assume it's a good amount of common sense. Like pointing out serious flaws in a plan.

Like who's going to drive the getaway cart.

BayardSPSR
2016-08-03, 01:27 PM
Such is the fruit of mental stats. Such is, indeed, the fruit of multiple unintuitively-differentiated mental stats.

2D8HP
2016-08-03, 09:54 PM
This is why I seldom play spellcasters,and
usually "dump"INT, WIS, and CHA.
It just breaks verisimilitude to try and role-play smarter, wiser, and more charming than I am.

Lorsa
2016-08-04, 07:34 AM
I consider myself to be at least fairly wise, but I still sit here browsing this forum when I should be working. We all do thoughtless things from time to time.

To be honest, what is the real problem? The character acted in a way the GM didn't envisioned the character acting? Well, since it's the player's character, perhaps the GM needs to rethink their perception of the character, since it obviously involves occasionally putting on unknown jewelry to see what happens.

RickAllison
2016-08-04, 10:03 AM
The way I would see that being RPed is being wise enough to know that it is a bad idea, but not having a high enough Int to process that wisdom before his desires compel him to try it on.

He could be the kind of person who you could ask his advice on anything and give it soundly ("Attempting to use a strange item in a ruin could be a very bad idea"), but it is different when confronted with the actual thing. It is the kind of situation where someone is realizing "Wait, this could be a bad thing", but they've already put it on.

Jay R
2016-08-04, 12:07 PM
I consider myself to be at least fairly wise, but I still sit here browsing this forum when I should be working. We all do thoughtless things from time to time.


The way I would see that being RPed is being wise enough to know that it is a bad idea, but not having a high enough Int to process that wisdom before his desires compel him to try it on.

Knowing what you ought to do is wisdom. Knowing how to do it well is intelligence.

Actually doing it is virtue.

Ralanr
2016-08-04, 01:41 PM
This is why I seldom play spellcasters,and
usually "dump"INT, WIS, and CHA.
It just breaks verisimilitude to try and role-play smarter, wiser, and more charming than I am.

I usually don't put much into int. But if I put it too low I start to wonder if I can role play my character into actually thinking of plans.

And I'm not a person who can stand people constantly debating plans when there is a simple solution. At this point I have a rule where if it takes 5 minutes to figure out a plan, I'm just going to rush in an adapt to the situation.

Otherwise known as kicking the door down.

Lorsa
2016-08-05, 06:31 AM
Knowing what you ought to do is wisdom. Knowing how to do it well is intelligence.

Actually doing it is virtue.

Wise words (meta-humor intended).

I supposed my Fortitude is a bit lacking. A virtue I always admired but never developed.