Whirlwind Flame Blade

[ZenBear]

On the topic of Whirlwind Attack:

"the whirlwind attack ability specifies a melee attack, can this be any melee attack the character is capable of?

Generally: must the attack be a weapon attack?

Specifically: the Druid spell Flame Blade allows you to use your action to make a melee spell attack. Is there a reason why this attack could not be used during whirlwind attack?

The interpretation that whirlwind is a single attack with multiple rolls would seem not to interfere with the spell's apparent limit of one attack."

Posted by Waffle_Iron in a closed thread. I am also curious about the answer.

[georgie_leech]

On the topic of Whirlwind Attack:

"the whirlwind attack ability specifies a melee attack, can this be any melee attack the character is capable of?

Generally: must the attack be a weapon attack?

Specifically: the Druid spell Flame Blade allows you to use your action to make a melee spell attack. Is there a reason why this attack could not be used during whirlwind attack?

The interpretation that whirlwind is a single attack with multiple rolls would seem not to interfere with the spell's apparent limit of one attack."

Posted by Waffle_Iron in a closed thread. I am also curious about the answer.

I had an answer but didn't post it in time. It looks like it works (given the single attack interpretation, let's not open that can of worms again). Flame Blade doesn't work with Extra Attack, but Whirlwind isn't that, and my copy never specifies that whirlwind is a weapon attack. I'd ask your DM, as an especially strict DM might rule you can't make any attacks with the Flame Blade except that outlined in the spell. For what it's worth, I'd allow it.

[mgshamster]

Whirlwind specifies melee attack, not melee weapon attack. Many of these abilities specify melee weapon attack.

The combat rules do not differentiate melee weapon attack and melee spell attack under the melee attack rules, so I am going to rule, as a GM, that it would be allowed.

At the very least, I'd allow it in my games.

[RickAllison]

Is it a melee attack (since the text does not require it to be a weapon)? Yes, so that part is fine.

Does it require something besides being a melee attack (like GFB/BB require you to cast the spell)? This is where it gets more questionable. The book says "You can use your action to make a melee spell attack with the fiery blade." It does not permit using the blade to make attacks, but to take a specific ad-hoc action in the spell description.

Basically, you can't use this ability for much the same reason you can't use it with Extra Attack. This isn't some thing that can make melee spell attacks using other action options, it has a specific ad-hoc action it is used with. Thus, I don't think it would work, at least by RAW.

[Plaguescarred]

On the topic of Whirlwind Attack:

"the whirlwind attack ability specifies a melee attack, can this be any melee attack the character is capable of?
No i don't think it can because both game elements let you use your action to specifically do something. So you use your action TO either make a melee spell attack OR make a melee attack against any number of creatures within 5 feet of you. Combining action effects from multiple sources may lead to unexpected (and very powerful) results.


Flame Blade: You can use your action to make a melee spell attack with the fiery blade.

Whirlwind Attack: You can use your action to make a melee attack against any number of creatures within 5 feet of you.

[mgshamster]

Is it a melee attack (since the text does not require it to be a weapon)? Yes, so that part is fine.

Does it require something besides being a melee attack (like GFB/BB require you to cast the spell)? This is where it gets more questionable. The book says "You can use your action to make a melee spell attack with the fiery blade." It does not permit using the blade to make attacks, but to take a specific ad-hoc action in the spell description.

Basically, you can't use this ability for much the same reason you can't use it with Extra Attack. This isn't some thing that can make melee spell attacks using other action options, it has a specific ad-hoc action it is used with. Thus, I don't think it would work, at least by RAW.

You know, I agree with your assessment of RAW.

The spell specifies that you can use your action to do [thing]. That's different than the action required for whirlwind.

[bid]

Flame Blade: You can use your action to make a melee spell attack with the fiery blade.

Whirlwind Attack: You can use your action to make a melee attack against any number of creatures within 5 feet of you.

Yeah, which action will you make? You can't have both.

[ZenBear]

Is it a melee attack (since the text does not require it to be a weapon)? Yes, so that part is fine.

Does it require something besides being a melee attack (like GFB/BB require you to cast the spell)? This is where it gets more questionable. The book says "You can use your action to make a melee spell attack with the fiery blade." It does not permit using the blade to make attacks, but to take a specific ad-hoc action in the spell description.

Basically, you can't use this ability for much the same reason you can't use it with Extra Attack. This isn't some thing that can make melee spell attacks using other action options, it has a specific ad-hoc action it is used with. Thus, I don't think it would work, at least by RAW.
Agreed.

Rule of Cool.
Yes.
Agreed.

:smallbiggrin: