Would stacking fighter styles break the game??

[Elminster298]

I know that it specifically states that you can not stack fighter styles. This is a thought excercise about whether it would truly hurt the balance of the game to allow stacking if a player wanted to. My initial thought is that it wouldn't be a problem and here is my line of thought:

Of the current fighting styles available, 3 would have zero effect if stacked(4 if you include mariner from UA since the +1 defense is just a worse version of the defense style). Of the three that remain, only defense and dueling are available to all three classes that currently offer fighting styles. If you aquired all possible chances to get fighter styles(champion fighter 10/paladin 2/ranger 2) you have four to choose. Now aside from the fact that it would be objectively a bad move to stack all in one style, let's say you did. Four defense styles would give a theoretical max non-spell assisted armor of 30. That's pretty high but not unattainable by other means as well and leaves you with a sub-optimal build overall. Four dueling styles gives you a +8 to damage. This one is a bit harder to determine balance as that is a lot of additional damage but with a sub-optimal build, with a one handed weapon, for damage that doesn't multiply on crit, and that much damage could be obtained elsewhere also through better class choices.

So what are your thoughts? As the game sits at this moment would stacking be unbalanced? Obviously if they add other sources for fighting styles later(either choices or ways to get them) it would change the balance.

[2D8HP]

I know that it specifically states that you can not stack fighter stylesWhere does it say that?
I thought if your PC is a champion fighter 10/paladin 2/ranger 2, you have four.
Is that not true?

[Cybren]

Would it be unbalanced? Probably not, but potentially.

Would it be broken? Yes, if you define broken to mean "does unintended things to gameplay and character design".

[RickAllison]

Where does it say that?
I thought if your PC is a champion fighter 10/paladin 2/ranger 2, you have four.
Is that not true?


You adopt a particular style o f fighting as your specialty.
Choose one o f the following options. You can’t take a
Fighting Style option more than once, even if you later
get to choose again.

You can have more than one FS and (depending on the particular styles) use them together. His question is whether it is unbalanced to use those to take the same one multiple times and gain the bonus more than once.

[BurchardOfEn]

He is referring to an individual Fighting Style not being able to be chosen again and receiving the benefits of it again. AKA you can't choose to take Dueling twice and get a +2 bonus to damage rolls with a one-handed weapon.

[Sigreid]

Where does it say that?
I thought if your PC is a champion fighter 10/paladin 2/ranger 2, you have four.
Is that not true?

I believe he's specifically talking about, for example, taking Archery style twice which would give you +4 on ranged attacks.

Whether it breaks anything or not, I think you benefit more from versatility than "OMG you stacked what How many times!?!" The reason the Champion's 2 fighting styles is cool, IMO, is that it lets him be superior in close and ranged fights.

[SharkForce]

4 defense styles would indeed break the game. attack bonus and damage can be increased while only bending the game. armour class winds up meaning that you're basically immune to getting attacked at a certain point, and yes it does in fact do horrible things to game balance. it also violates bounded accuracy and brings back the hunt for fiddly bonuses. there is almost nothing good about the idea of letting someone take the same style multiple times.

[Quintessence]

Taking archery style 4 times, feels good.

[RickAllison]

Taking archery style 4 times, feels good.

Sorry, Paladins don't get archery FS. You can only get it three times (which still means you can rock Sharpshooter and have a better chance to hit than the rogue!). Still, 3 levels to get +4 on all your attacks with ranged weapons...

[2D8HP]

Thanks,
OK good. After I asked, I saw this from the July rules answers (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-july-2016)


Can a fighter have two fighting styles active at once? Dueling and Defense, for example.
You can benefit from more than one Fighting Style option at a time, as long as they aren’t mutually exclusive, as Dueling and Great Weapon Fighting are.

[BurchardOfEn]

Best hope that you're playing a Halfling then, Quintessence.

I would say that in general stacking fighting styles would be overpowered. Defense is obvious, but a Champion 10/Paladin 2/Ranger 2 could become a Champion 11/Paladin 2/Ranger 3/Warlock 2. This would allow for a Dueling character to deal 1d8+8+Mod, 1d8+8+Mod, 1d8+8+Mod + 1d8(Colossus Slayer) in addition to Hunter's Mark or Hex and a decent supply of Divine Smites. Assume that you're doing an Undying Light Warlock, and you can add your Charisma modifier to damage on each of those Divine Smites. Of which you have 5, 2 of which recharge on a short rest.

So with an Action Surge, this build could nova in one turn to do up to 6d8+48+6*Mod(quite likely to get a crit considering 19-20 range) +10d8+5*CHA Mod. Considering the level of this character, we can guess that STR and CHA are probably somewhere along the lines of 18 or 20.

That's a max damage of 226 if we assume STR is 20 and CHA is 18. You could also have Hex up instead of one Divine Smite for 6d8+48+6*Mod +6d6 + 8d8+4*CHA Mod. That gives a max damage of 242.

Another possibility is to go Champion 11/Paladin 2/Ranger 2/Warlock 5 which has 5 spell slots. This is probably the most optimal as it would grant 4 attacks (at least if Thristing Blade stacks with Extra Attack as it presumably should) and 2 recharaging spells that can go for Warlock or to be used to nova for 5d8 if necessary.

8d8+64+8*Mod + 12d8+5*CHA Mod. This has a max damage of 284. I will give that is a level 20 character throwing all of their eggs into one basket and it going literally perfect in terms of damage rolls, but that seems like some pretty insane nova potential. Especially since a normal turn would be 4d8+32+4*Mod.

This is also assuming that a Paladin's Divine Smite counts as a spell for Undying Light Warlock which is entirely possible to not hold true and would make the Undying Light/Paladin combo cease to be such a frightening force.

[ClintACK]

A Paladin 2/Champion 11 simultaneously using Dueling, Defense, and Protection seems reasonable.

A Ranger 2/Fighter 1 using Archery + Archery seems sketchy.

[Foxhound438]

take defense 4 times, AC is 24 before any magic items. As early as level 5 you might have 23, and that's definitely ridiculous.

Alternatively, take dueling 4 times, get +8 damage per hit on your qs+PAM+shield cheese.

Or take archery twice, and have a +11 to attack at level 5. That's a bonus that's reasonable for a level 17, by the way.

The only one that doesn't break the game would be GWFS, as there you encounter diminishing returns. Others that apply a flat bounus, however, would break the game if stacked.

[Giant2005]

I think it would be better to force the first two to be unique, but the third and fourth instances can stack with either of the first two. That way you would have to invest in 10 levels of Champion before you could start stacking the op archery bonus, it would be unfeasible for casters to stack multiple fighting styles, and a melee character would have to sacrifice enough to balance out the gains.

[ClintACK]

I think it would be better to force the first two to be unique, but the third and fourth instances can stack with either of the first two. That way you would have to invest in 10 levels of Champion before you could start stacking the op archery bonus, it would be unfeasible for casters to stack multiple fighting styles, and a melee character would have to sacrifice enough to balance out the gains.

Letting the Champion feature double a Fighting Style bonus sounds interesting.

[jaappleton]

If you allow UA, the Champion can ALMOST double stack a fighting style.

Close Quarters Shooter from the Light, Dark, Underdark! article.
Archery fighting style from the PHB

CQS adds +1 to both attack rolls and damage
Archery adds +2 to attack rolls

[Elminster298]

I appreciate all the feedback everyone! This has all mostly been a mind exercise since I wouldn't allow the stacking based on principal alone since it encourages a narrow "power gaming" attitude. I do however love the idea of allowing the two from champion fighter to stack. That by itself seems like a fantastic flavor and a decent boost to a sub-par fighter choice.

[Crgaston]

If you allow UA, the Champion can ALMOST double stack a fighting style.

Close Quarters Shooter from the Light, Dark, Underdark! article.
Archery fighting style from the PHB

CQS adds +1 to both attack rolls and damage
Archery adds +2 to attack rolls

My 13th level Champion has both. It's pretty boss, but considering he's running around with a bunch of L13 full casters, nowhere near op, much less broken. It doesn't give a +1 to damage, though...

It ignores penalties for half and three quarters cover inside 30', removes the disadvantage for using ranged attacks in melee, and gives +1 to hit. Considering that it overlaps with 1/3 Sharpshooter and 1/3 Crossbow Expert and 1/2 Archery style, it seems pretty mechanically powerful. But in actual play it just makes a longbow = a rapier with the ammunition property.

I feel like stacking fighting style bonuses the way the OP suggested s a bad idea, though.