Concept work: Warlock variants

[8wGremlin]

So the Theurge got me thinking about variants.

So taking the warlock chassis and making the following change.

Pick one spell casting class from the following:
Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Warlock or Wizard
When you access or pick spells you pick from that list instead of the default warlock spell list.
These spells are considered warlock spells for you, and use your CHA as you casting stat like a normal warlock. All invocations remain the same. You patron adds their spells as normal to your choice of spells. (note you will lose access to Warlock cantrips!)


For example, you pick Druid warlock and make a pact with a fiendish nature spirit.
Instead of warlock spells you get access to Druid spells list.

Your thoughts, please?

[BurchardOfEn]

The most immediate problem that comes to mind that the invocations would have to change to some degree since a good few of the invocations are focused explicitly on Eldritch Blast. I like the idea of a Druid Bladelock that uses Shilleagh though.

Edit: Another potential problem is that if you don't change the Invocations, then people are going to be even more prone to flock to the Tome pact to get Eldritch Blast for their other Invocations. Further incentivizing an already extremely good and commonly used option is not something that I think is really a great idea.

[Kane0]

The warlock list is a specifically cut down version of the sorc/wis lists. Granting access to those (or any full caster list even) for short rest casting might open a bit of a can-o-worms if you aren't careful.

Otherwise I don't see much issue.

[BurchardOfEn]

The most obvious problem that I could see with short rest casting with the full Wizard list is that non-combat challenges will become trivialized because the Wizardlock can cast Fly on the whole party at no real cost because then he'll just cast Leomund's Tiny Hut to rest. The sheer amount of utility power that this could hold would be frightening even if I do like the idea.

[Joe the Rat]

...which an 9th level tomelock can do anyway - Fly is on the warlock list, and Tiny hut can be ritual cast.
Mind you, he can only Fly 3 people at a time (concentration issues). So tomelock abuse again.

Full list access for options could be an issue, but you are looking at a limited number of options to actually use. Doing a trimmed list - particularly for the Mystic Arcanum - might be adviseable.
But 'Lock is going to have scaling issues. Spells are at max level, so there's no "enough to get upright" healing options at higher levels unless you want to invest in a mass cure (as well as or instead of cw/hw? hrm.)

Getting away from EB frees up some invocation space, but I'd be tempted to offer "Mastery of Agony" to have ONE cantrip of your choice gain CHA to damage. And yes, I would take it on Vicious Mockery. There's no Hex for you, so why not? That might be a Varialock exclusive, but I would also throw that in to general population with an either/or with agonizing blast.

[BurchardOfEn]

Ah right, I forgot about Fly being on the Warlock list since Fly was on the Seeker's list I figured it probably wasn't a Warlock spell. Seeming isn't a Warlock spell though, and it could be quite useful to be able to cast on a short rest basis.

I also wasn't excluding the frightening amount of utility power of a Tomelock. Tomelocks do at least have slightly more limitations on utility since they only know so many Warlock spells and all other spells are rituals.

I will agree that there is the problem that Warlock would make it more difficult for a Cleric to heal someone just from the brink of death, but I'm not sure if I'd say that this is necessarily a bad thing to make more difficult.

Edit: Clairvoyance and Sending were the Seeker's 3rd level spells. Seeker does get Arcane Eye as a 4th level spell even though Warlock can use an invocation for that though.

[Joe the Rat]

More difficult than a cleric, I think? Yeah, and I think that lack of fine control would be one of the big offsets for the power flexibility, especially as offered here.
(and now I realize one level of cleric or bard gets that same access.)

Fly was on the seeker list? That's a bit of an oversight.

[Ze_Azrael]

I don't have my books with me but I think a big design point was restricting multi target cc and summons from the Warlock list. If you look at those invocations that allow you to cast one spell a day using a warlock slot, they tend to cover this intended weakness (off the top of my head I only remember Bane, Slow, and Conjure Elemental).

A Warlock with free access to a Druids list would likely be amazing, and broken.