Vengeance Paladin of Bahamut

[Oramac]

So we know that dragons and giants don't exactly like each other.

For Storm Kings Thunder I'm thinking about playing a Dragonborn Vengeance Paladin who essentially swears his Oath against the Giants. I have a basic idea of how I want to play it, but I'm not sure if it would work for Bahamut or if a different, more neutral, deity would be better.

What say you, GITP?

[RickAllison]

So we know that dragons and giants don't exactly like each other.

For Storm Kings Thunder I'm thinking about playing a Dragonborn Vengeance Paladin who essentially swears his Oath against the Giants. I have a basic idea of how I want to play it, but I'm not sure if it would work for Bahamut or if a different, more neutral, deity would be better.

What say you, GITP?

Bahamut should be fine. You should probably be more flexible with your path than normal vengeance Paladins, like "Giants who terrorize the planes" rather than just Giants. Rather than eternally seeking out Giants to kill, you are dedicated to finding where they are causing the most trouble so that you can help.

You would be more like the wandering knight, helping people but never settling down as long as evil Giants terrorize the earth.

[RPG_NPC]

From a role-playing point of view, would the character only persue an aggressive attitude toward Giants? How would they react if there was a peaceful solution available?

[RickAllison]

From a role-playing point of view, would the character only persue an aggressive attitude toward Giants? How would they react if there was a peaceful solution available?

A suggestion would be demand restitution for damages done.

[Oramac]

From a role-playing point of view, would the character only persue an aggressive attitude toward Giants? How would they react if there was a peaceful solution available?


A suggestion would be demand restitution for damages done.

In character: I will seek out and eliminate anything with the "Giant" subtype with extreme prejudice, but would not otherwise kill anything (always dealing non-lethal damage).

The reason being: Giants are an uncontrollable force of destruction in the world, and if left alive will not stop even if shown mercy. Their minions, on the other hand, are simply following orders, either out of fear or necessity, and deserve whatever mercy we can give.

Out of character: all that said, I'm very open to other options.

[Corran]

So we know that dragons and giants don't exactly like each other.

For Storm Kings Thunder I'm thinking about playing a Dragonborn Vengeance Paladin who essentially swears his Oath against the Giants. I have a basic idea of how I want to play it, but I'm not sure if it would work for Bahamut or if a different, more neutral, deity would be better.

What say you, GITP?
Dwarves dont get along with giants too, if I am not mistaken. So another way to go about this giantsbane concept of yours, could potentially be to play a (mountain?) dwarven vengeance paladin of Moradin(?). Just throwing out some ideas.

[MintyNinja]

Dwarves dont get along with giants too, if I am not mistaken. So another way to go about this giantsbane concept of yours, could potentially be to play a (mountain?) dwarven vengeance paladin of Moradin(?). Just throwing out some ideas.

This would also give you a good reason to cherish certain Dwarven weapons like Hammers and Axes. If I were the DM, I'd have some rumors among the giants about this Dwarven knight known as "Foehammer" going around slaughtering other giants.

[Oramac]

Hmm. A good idea for the dwarf as well. I'll have to give it some thought. I'm leaning towards the Dragonborn because I like the Dragon/Giant rivalry, but the dwarf is definitely one to consider.

[Mandragola]

Dwarf or dragonborn are mechanically pretty equal. You'll probably find the bonus to con more useful until lvl 6, and the bonus to cha more useful thereafter. Poison and fire resistance are more or less of equal value, and both have features that are of very limited value (dragon breath, weapon and armour proficiencies, for instance). The dwarf probably edges it slightly in my book, but not by much.

I play a vengeance paladin of Ilmater. He hunts down whoever is hurting the common people and chops them up with a greatsword. Motto: "Do unto others harder than they do unto you". I have a similar attitude to minions as you, though I'm more prepared to kill people who are prepared to do evil stuff in exchange for money. Different if they'd been coerced into stuff of course.

I quite enjoy the slightly mad fanaticism of vengeance paladins. Your version sounds fine, but possibly a bit to nice. I tend to see vengeance paladins as just that bit over the edge into religeous extremism, with vows emphasising that they'll do whatever's necessary to bring evil people to justice. It feels like you have much more license to do questionable stuff in persuit of the greater good.

My own specific example right now is The Sword of Kas. Very evil longsword, which has come into our party's posession. But we're up against some seriously naughty cultists of Vecna who are looking for the hand and eye. Nobody else is prepared to touch TSoK with a barge pole, but would I use it if I had to, given that it's the only way you can destroy the hand and eye? Actually I think I would, and then if bad stuff happens I have to deal with it. My paladin would see the opportunity to destroy the hand and eye as important enough to outweigh the threat of harming himself physically or spiritually by using TSoK. And anyway, it's way more fun that way.

[lordhack]

In my current campaign one of the players is playing a Tiefling Vengeance Paladin of Bahamut and everything seems to work well RP wise, but my current homebrew setting casts Dragons and Mind Flayers as the super powers of the world, and he was a Mind Flayer slave who escaped and swore vengeance against them. Still, as long as your DM is cool with it I don't see a problem with it.

[Oramac]

I quite enjoy the slightly mad fanaticism of vengeance paladins. Your version sounds fine, but possibly a bit to nice. I tend to see vengeance paladins as just that bit over the edge into religeous extremism, with vows emphasising that they'll do whatever's necessary to bring evil people to justice. It feels like you have much more license to do questionable stuff in persuit of the greater good.

I quite agree. But as I'm playing in Adventure League, I'm doing my best to walk that line between "Good but fanatical" and "Evil hunting evil".

Near as I can tell, so long as I stay on the "I'll hurt/risk myself to kill evil, but I won't hurt/risk others" train, I feel like I'm doing all right.


My own specific example right now is The Sword of Kas. Very evil longsword, which has come into our party's posession. But we're up against some seriously naughty cultists of Vecna who are looking for the hand and eye. Nobody else is prepared to touch TSoK with a barge pole, but would I use it if I had to, given that it's the only way you can destroy the hand and eye? Actually I think I would, and then if bad stuff happens I have to deal with it. My paladin would see the opportunity to destroy the hand and eye as important enough to outweigh the threat of harming himself physically or spiritually by using TSoK. And anyway, it's way more fun that way.

I really like that, and I feel the same way about Vengeance when I play it. If using the evil cursed sword hurts me, but saves the world, that's a price I'm more than willing to pay.

Of course, you do run the risk of turning into Arthas Menethil / The Lich King at that point too, so tempering it with judgment is wise.

[Mandragola]

I quite agree. But as I'm playing in Adventure League, I'm doing my best to walk that line between "Good but fanatical" and "Evil hunting evil".

Near as I can tell, so long as I stay on the "I'll hurt/risk myself to kill evil, but I won't hurt/risk others" train, I feel like I'm doing all right.

I've never been faced with the problem of hurting innocent people in order to get at the bad guy. I don't think I'd do that except in the most extreme circumstances. The vow doesn't talk about hurting innocent people, it talks about pursuing big evil stuff rather than small evil stuff. I interpret that as chasing after the dragon, rather than the goblin - not a licence to do evil things myself - or at least not while remaining a good character.


I really like that, and I feel the same way about Vengeance when I play it. If using the evil cursed sword hurts me, but saves the world, that's a price I'm more than willing to pay.

Of course, you do run the risk of turning into Arthas Menethil / The Lich King at that point too, so tempering it with judgment is wise.

Other members of the party would probably share your views on judgement. For now, I'm not attuned to the sword. It happens to have a couple of crippling negative attributes, which make it impractical to use. Nobody can rest within 300' of me, for a start.

For what it's worth my paladin is a variant human, starting out with GWM. I like GWM a lot for a vengeance paladin, since it lets you hit things harder, and more often. I find that I do quite often meet enemies with fairly low ACs, and of course I can also use channel divinity to give myself advantage against bosses. GWM also gives me good reasons not to use the puny sword of Kas, much to the relief of the rest of the party.

[Oramac]

I've never been faced with the problem of hurting innocent people in order to get at the bad guy. I don't think I'd do that except in the most extreme circumstances. The vow doesn't talk about hurting innocent people, it talks about pursuing big evil stuff rather than small evil stuff. I interpret that as chasing after the dragon, rather than the goblin - not a licence to do evil things myself - or at least not while remaining a good character.

Yup. We're on the same page here.


Other members of the party would probably share your views on judgement. For now, I'm not attuned to the sword. It happens to have a couple of crippling negative attributes, which make it impractical to use. Nobody can rest within 300' of me, for a start.

For what it's worth my paladin is a variant human, starting out with GWM. I like GWM a lot for a vengeance paladin, since it lets you hit things harder, and more often. I find that I do quite often meet enemies with fairly low ACs, and of course I can also use channel divinity to give myself advantage against bosses. GWM also gives me good reasons not to use the puny sword of Kas, much to the relief of the rest of the party.

Oh yes. I'm absolutely going with a two-hander. I feel like it's almost blasphemous for a Vengeance paladin to not use a two handed weapon.

[Mandragola]

Oh yes. I'm absolutely going with a two-hander. I feel like it's almost blasphemous for a Vengeance paladin to not use a two handed weapon.

Agreed, though I'm talking about the Great Weapon Mastery feat. I like the option to hit things for an extra 10 damage and/or get bonus action attacks occasionally. The only way to start with that is as a variant human, and actually any other race struggles to find an ASI for it until level 12.

Personally I think that GWM outweighs the advantages that dwarves and dragonborn give. It's fun too.

[Oramac]

Agreed, though I'm talking about the Great Weapon Mastery feat. I like the option to hit things for an extra 10 damage and/or get bonus action attacks occasionally. The only way to start with that is as a variant human, and actually any other race struggles to find an ASI for it until level 12.

Personally I think that GWM outweighs the advantages that dwarves and dragonborn give. It's fun too.

Indeed. I'm playing an Oath of the Undying Death Knight (see my sig) in a home game right now and using GWM with it is loads of fun.

[RickAllison]

Agreed, though I'm talking about the Great Weapon Mastery feat. I like the option to hit things for an extra 10 damage and/or get bonus action attacks occasionally. The only way to start with that is as a variant human, and actually any other race struggles to find an ASI for it until level 12.

Personally I think that GWM outweighs the advantages that dwarves and dragonborn give. It's fun too.

Paladins with that become amazing anti-casters. 15+2d6 means a good initial damage roll combined with a Divine Smite can utterly wreck a caster's day by putting the DC well above 10.