Question regarding Erudite taking two ACF's

[WhiteBread]

Well as some know there is the mildly cheese of taking two first level ACF's with Erudite because he has 2 Bonus Feats at first level(one being the Psicrystal Affinity Feat).
Question here is : Is there anything that would prevent me from taking Discipline ACF twice? Like for example the Shaper and Egoist Discipline?

[ExLibrisMortis]

ACFs aren't like feats or spells known, in the sense that they don't stack on your character sheet. ACFs modify a class before they 'hit the sheet', so to speak. You should be able to take them twice.

There is an almost entirely unrelated precedent of changeling wizards, who can specialize in two schools of magic. For what it's worth.

[Troacctid]

You cannot replace your 1st level bonus feat twice. Once you trade it away, it's gone. If two ACFs replace the same thing (and, for erudites, they always do), you can't take them both. This also means that, in most cases, you can't take the same ACF twice.

[WhiteBread]

You cannot replace your 1st level bonus feat twice. Once you trade it away, it's gone. If two ACFs replace the same thing (and, for erudites, they always do), you can't take them both. This also means that, in most cases, you can't take the same ACF twice.

You have 2 first level bonus feats as an Erudite though by raw. Bonus Feat and Psicrystal Affinity(which is also a first level bonus feat). And nowhere does it state that it has to replace the same thing? If it does please point me to it. At least by RAW you can have two different ACF's: For example Mantle ACF trade for Psicrystal Affinity and Spell to Power trade for Bonus Feat.

[Troacctid]

The bonus feat and psicrystal are separate class features. Favored Discipline, Mantled Erudite, and Convert Spell to Power all modify the "Bonus Feats" class feature.

[Psyren]

The psicrystal is explicitly a bonus feat though (CPsi 154.) It could go either way.

However, the OP's specific trick (taking the "Favored Discipline" ACF twice) wouldn't fly.

[WhiteBread]

The psicrystal is explicitly a bonus feat though (CPsi 154.) It could go either way.

However, the OP's specific trick (taking the "Favored Discipline" ACF twice) wouldn't fly.

That's what i meant with being a feat... I do know it is a little bit of cheese but considering that would work why would the double ACF not fly? Is there a specific entry that prohibits from using an ACF twice? Or do you mean that a DM wouldn't allow it for specific reasons?

[ExLibrisMortis]

The bonus feat and psicrystal are separate class features. Favored Discipline, Mantled Erudite, and Convert Spell to Power all modify the "Bonus Feats" class feature.
Don't go reading too much into things. The ACF is very clear: "You lose your 1st-level bonus feat". It doesn't say anything about the Bonus Feats class ability.


However, the OP's specific trick (taking the "Favored Discipline" ACF twice) wouldn't fly.
Why not? When you give up a bonus feat, you "choose a single discipline and all powers of that discipline, no matter what class list they are on, are considered general psion/wilder powers for purposes of learning". I don't see why you couldn't do that twice. You get a big power list, that's all.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

It's clear that the two 1st level bonus feats that erudites get at 1st level can be swapped. However...

...Humans and strongheart halflings also gain a 1st level bonus feat. Can you swap that for an ACF, as well?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Humans and strongheart halflings also gain a 1st level bonus feat. Can you swap that for an ACF, as well?
I would personally rule you can't; the ACF modifies the class, and can't affect things outside the class, such as race. Otherwise, elves would make great erudites :smallbiggrin:.