Final Fantasy Job Switch System [5e Hack]

[R.Shackleford]

Final Fantasy Job Scores (and modifiers) + Job Switch System.

Final Fantasy 5e Hack (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/r1JTO9GF)
===

Current Thoughts

I'm currently playing Final Fantasy III

I may do something with the Dark Warriors, the warriors who stopped the Light Crystals from causing an imbalance in the world. They are hardly talked about in Final Fantasy lore but yeah, sometimes the Light Crystals are the bad guys? :p

I'll save that for the adventure tho.

How to have damage work?

Damage will work as the following... Note, this is still being developed properly.

Primary Targets
Weapon or Spell: 1d12 + Job Modifier

As you level up this base damage increases.

Secondary Targets
This can be fluffed as a whirlwind attack, volley attack, multishot, a burst, or a blast.

You may target a number of targets in addition to the primary target equal to your Prof bonus whenever you make an attack that deals damage (spells and effects that don't deal damage or aren't just riders will have their own rules for secondary targets). Secondary targets must be adjacent to the primary target or within range of your weapon.

Roll your damage normally and then split it among the targets. Any target that your attack missed doesn't take damage but still counts in splitting the damage.

Gary deals 1d12 + 3 damage against an Ogre. Two goblins come in on his flanks and now Gary has three targets. Due to having a Prof bonus of +2, Gary can target all three creatures with the Ogre being the primary target and the goblins being the secondary targets. Gary rolls his attack against all three and misses one goblin. Gary rolls 1d12 + 3 and rolls a (12) for a total of 15. Each target would take 5 damage, however one goblin takes 0 due to being missed.

Gary can always decide to attack one, two, or three targets before he attacks.

Dice needed: 1d20 and 1d12


===

You have 6 scores (w/modifiers) to correlate to the 6 basic jobs.

Warrior
Thief
Beserker (replaced monk)
Black Mage
White Mage
Red Mage

You learn job features from the job you have the highest ability score in. If there is a tie then you pick one of those as your highest score.

Each job gives you a passive ability. Warrior gives you additional armor and shield prof, Thief gives you an additional skill, and white mage gives you a boost to healing/support magic.

Each job has a list of features you can learn by leveling up. Warriors get things like Armor break and flametongue, black makes get black magic, monks get martial arts. These are all bonus actions whenever you use a general feature that anyone gets (general features are essentially the Actions in combat section of the 5e srd).

To learn a feature from a new job you must switch jobs. To do this you may, once per long rest, switch your highest Job Score with another job score.

You lose your old passive ability and gain a new one. You keep your old features but can now learn features from your new class.

However, to keep players from switching right before they level up to gain features in a job they didn't play as, experience points are tracked separately for each job. When you level up you may learn a feature in whatever job you have the most XP in. This number then resets.

More work for more flexibility and a system that works better in a computer.

I thought of using a JP system but really it does the same as just using XP and you don't have the potential for level 5 PCs with every feature ever.

Edit

There will be Subjobs features. After you get so many features from a base class, or multiple base classes, you will be able to pick up features from subclasses like Monk, Blue Mage, Summoner, Time Mage and others.

Example

Warrior Subjobs

Templar: Warrior 3, White Mage 2
Dark Knight: Warrior 3, Black Mage 2
Monk: Warrior 5

[Master Elodin]

This actually seems to have some potential. I am an absolute fanatic about the Final Fantasy Tactics games, and most of my friends love FF, so I could definitely see myself running a game with this hack.

Do you have any crunch made yet? I'd love to see some of this put into more concrete form.

[PapaQuackers]

Are we talking Red Mage as in an Archer or Red Mage as in a combination of Black and White mage? Also I think a lot of the fun of switching jobs and what not in final fantasy is having limited access to said jobs. So You could have two separate basic classes that are available from the get go like final fantasy tactics that would lead into two separate branches.

Squire-Leads into the melee classes generally at first
Chemist- Leads into the magic heavy classes

That would help you make the later game when you get those more interesting classes more rewarding I think.

[R.Shackleford]

This actually seems to have some potential. I am an absolute fanatic about the Final Fantasy Tactics games, and most of my friends love FF, so I could definitely see myself running a game with this hack.

Do you have any crunch made yet? I'd love to see some of this put into more concrete form.

Oh wow, thank you.

I do have some crunch made up, it is in early stages though. It is the core of 5e without a lot of the fat. I just need to remember to add actual rules for things that I tend to gloss over.

I'm working off the idea that everything must roll to hit and then there will be a Vit or Spr save. AC is "avoidance" class, your ability to not be fully effected by an attack.


Are we talking Red Mage as in an Archer or Red Mage as in a combination of Black and White mage? Also I think a lot of the fun of switching jobs and what not in final fantasy is having limited access to said jobs. So You could have two separate basic classes that are available from the get go like final fantasy tactics that would lead into two separate branches.

Squire-Leads into the melee classes generally at first
Chemist- Leads into the magic heavy classes

That would help you make the later game when you get those more interesting classes more rewarding I think.

Red Mage as in jack of all trades. Old school Final Fantasy 1 (and others) type of job.

I thought of doing Squire and Chemist like this, but it really wasn't working out well and I would like to have 6 Job Scores as apposed to 2.


===

Here is what I have thus far. Needs a ton of work but I think I should be able to get something Final Fantasy out of it. I'm working off the idea of Final Fantasy 3, 5, Tactics, and X-2 type job system.

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/r1JTO9GF

I need to add passive features that any job can take to customize their characters, these would be optional.

[darrel378]

This seems really cool! I especially like the idea of the subjobs.

[R.Shackleford]

This seems really cool! I especially like the idea of the subjobs.

Wow, thank you :)

I took the idea of prestige classes and Paragon paths from 3e/4e and figured doing that would work well.

I'm going to also put a way for job level ups through toleplaying.

If you take the Rat's Tail to Bahamut you can upgrade up jobs to specific other jobs.

If you take Une's Mirror to Leviathan you can upgrade specific jobs to new jobs.

Or just unlock paths

Edit

This would allow people to not have to use the job switch system to grow further. They can complete a side quest to level up their job.

[PapaQuackers]

You are lacking a ranger type class though as far as I can see.

[R.Shackleford]

You are lacking a ranger type class though as far as I can see.

Kinda. But mostly yes I haven't included an archer or ranger job.

All three martial jobs (and red mage) can fill the role of an archer well enough. Weapon attacks don't care about melee or ranged weapons. Too finiky. Plus I loved in FF when you started using Focus with melee weapons and Breakfast techs with bows.

I was planning on making a ranger Subjob for the warrior. :)

[PapaQuackers]

That works. Ill come forward with suggestions soon

[R.Shackleford]

That works. Ill come forward with suggestions soon

Nice, thank you.

Notes

White Mage 3, Thief 2 = Scholar

The job will revolve around white magic and stealing/securing knowledge.

[PapaQuackers]

Erm, If I may. I think you should make Scholar the Black/White mage mix since that's what it traditionally is. They're the ones who have the most extensive mix of magic in the game but can't use weapons of any kind.

Blue Mage however could definitely be black mage and thief, someone who steals magic from his enemies/monsters.

[Bruno Carvalho]

You got the Bard as a Red Mage subjob. I personally think that using Bard as a main job would be the best, as FF has had its share of wily dancers, strange mimics and spoony bards in the series, and it would map better the 6th stat with Charisma (Warrior is clearly STR; Thief is DEX; Barbarian is CON; Black Mage is INT; White Mage is WIS; and Red Mage is... CHA?). Lastly, Red Mage would be a nice subjob to both White and Black mages (Maybe White 2 + Black 2 + Warrior 1 ?) and/or the Warrior class.

[JBPuffin]

Erm, If I may. I think you should make Scholar the Black/White mage mix since that's what it traditionally is. They're the ones who have the most extensive mix of magic in the game but can't use weapons of any kind.

Blue Mage however could definitely be black mage and thief, someone who steals magic from his enemies/monsters.

Blue Mage actually has the same connection as the Scholar for me - that black/white magic hybrid path was what the FFTA setup went with, and while Thief is thematic...I dunno, it just doesn't fit so well.


You got the Bard as a Red Mage subjob. I personally think that using Bard as a main job would be the best, as FF has had its share of wily dancers, strange mimics and spoony bards in the series, and it would map better the 6th stat with Charisma (Warrior is clearly STR; Thief is DEX; Barbarian is CON; Black Mage is INT; White Mage is WIS; and Red Mage is... CHA?). Lastly, Red Mage would be a nice subjob to both White and Black mages (Maybe White 2 + Black 2 + Warrior 1 ?) and/or the Warrior class.

This is a nifty idea. I like the idea that maybe Red Mage isn't a class so much as a build though; make Doublecast some kind of automatic feature once you hit the almost-cap and you're golden.

I want to use a similar idea for my THAC0 game, and at its core, it's the classic skill tree system of investing points to unlock skills and passives MMO-type games love. Very Diabloesque from what I've seen in videos. Not sure how well it goes with the 5e chassis, but I think it's worth a shot, so good luck Shackleford!

[PapaQuackers]

We do not speak of tactics advanced, that game was an abomination. It looks like he wants to go with the Gish Blue Mage anyway from what I can see. Warrior/Black Mage. I would also concur with analysis put forward for Red Mage. Perhaps if they have an even distribution of each class level like 2/2/2/2/2/2 they can unlock the Red Mage. Kind of like first edition Bard.

[JBPuffin]

We do not speak of tactics advanced, that game was an abomination. It looks like he wants to go with the Gish Blue Mage anyway from what I can see. Warrior/Black Mage. I would also concur with analysis put forward for Red Mage. Perhaps if they have an even distribution of each class level like 2/2/2/2/2/2 they can unlock the Red Mage. Kind of like first edition Bard.

If it must be gish, I agree with Thief/Black Mage fo sho'. That Red Mage idea works better, too - they get Doublecast while they have that or some acceptable transitional state (for when you don't have 6-divisible point counts).

[Dionon]

Subbed to Thread. Will be following this closely, hoping that it is completed :D I like the work done so far, though I have to ask, instead of gaining +1 every 3 levels to all, when do you get +1 to any 1 so you can SWITCH Jobs? Because as presented, if I go

Warrior: 13
Thief: 14
Beserker: 12
Black Mage: 15
White Mage: 10
Red Mage: 8

At level 20, my scores will be

Warrior: 19
Thief: 20
Beserker: 18
Black Mage: 20
White Mage: 16
Red Mage: 14

While at level 18, I can start picking up either Black Mage OR Thief features.... There's no real point by then...

[R.Shackleford]

Short on time but wanted to say...

The most prominent Blue Mage characters that I recall are all... Beastly.

First you have the kid/dude (never remember his name haha) that is feral in VI (I think 6). Then you have Quina, shim's trance is "super eat you", how beastly is that? And then you have Kimahri who's overdrive is "ronso rage"...

All of the famous Blue Mages that have a character with them are partly beserker. I wouldn't call any of them black mage/thief.

And all of them are gishy.

However I was thinking of something.

Making a bunch of Subjobs and then giving multiple entry points.

So you could enter Blue Mage as a Beserker with Beserker 3/Black Mage 2 or if you take another route you can enter with Black Mage 3 / Thief 2.

I'm also thinking that for each job you have, you can only have one subjob.

I have some longer and more specific responses later after work. :)

Thanks all :)

[JBPuffin]

Short on time but wanted to say...

The most prominent Blue Mage characters that I recall are all... Beastly.

First you have the kid/dude (never remember his name haha) that is feral in VI (I think 6). Then you have Quina, shim's trance is "super eat you", how beastly is that? And then you have Kimahri who's overdrive is "ronso rage"...

All of the famous Blue Mages that have a character with them are partly beserker. I wouldn't call any of them black mage/thief.

And all of them are gishy.

However I was thinking of something.

Making a bunch of Subjobs and then giving multiple entry points.

So you could enter Blue Mage as a Beserker with Beserker 3/Black Mage 2 or if you take another route you can enter with Black Mage 3 / Thief 2.

I'm also thinking that for each job you have, you can only have one subjob.

I have some longer and more specific responses later after work. :)

Thanks all :)

Limiting Subjobs - definitely a good idea.

Multiple entry points - SUUUUPER good idea. And you're right about the majority of blue mage characters, come to think of it - so used to the TA versions since they're the only ones I've actually finished (some contact with others - IX, original Tactics, XIII, V, III)...

[PapaQuackers]

That's usually more a trait of the individual themselves, Quina's melee attacks were a far cry from berserker and the child you're referring to was completely feral. In the older games Blue Mage was an actual Gish we're talking like final fantasy 5 backwards. They cast spells and hit things with big swords, moving forward like final fantasy 9 with Quina they were purely casters who gained abilities through either absorbing their enemies or being hit by said abilities.


That being said you could have precedent for subjobs leading into other subjobs, through out final fantasy there have been plenty of jobs unavailable to you until you get a bunch of other jobs that don't start available to you either. The Tactics Mime springs to mind. So perhaps you could have something of a similar effect for your Blue Mage if you want to accomplish a similar feeling. The berserkery Gish/Taking and Absorbing abilities.

Berseker 3/Black Mage 2/ Thief 1 = Blue Mage.

That could be a suitable compromise right?

[R.Shackleford]

That's usually more a trait of the individual themselves, Quina's melee attacks were a far cry from berserker and the child you're referring to was completely feral. In the older games Blue Mage was an actual Gish we're talking like final fantasy 5 backwards. They cast spells and hit things with big swords, moving forward like final fantasy 9 with Quina they were purely casters who gained abilities through either absorbing their enemies or being hit by said abilities.


That being said you could have precedent for subjobs leading into other subjobs, through out final fantasy there have been plenty of jobs unavailable to you until you get a bunch of other jobs that don't start available to you either. The Tactics Mime springs to mind. So perhaps you could have something of a similar effect for your Blue Mage if you want to accomplish a similar feeling. The berserkery Gish/Taking and Absorbing abilities.

Berseker 3/Black Mage 2/ Thief 1 = Blue Mage.

That could be a suitable compromise right?

Well, no.

I wouldn't have a three job option to go into a subjob. That's waiting till level 7 to grab a Subjobs. I would want Subjobs to come on faster than that. I'm actually thinking of allowing them at 5 (3/1 split).

The best compromise, and it isnt really a compremise so much as a system idea, I can come up with is the multiple entry points idea that I have.

Then more people can gets their idea entry of a subjob.

[Bruno Carvalho]

Suggestion for multi-entry points subjobs:

1) Make some skills appear in more than one job. Maybe you can grab (for example) the skill "Double Cut" both as a Warrior and as a Thief. They don't stack, and might have some smallish diferences, but they'll share the same name.

2) Make the prerequisite of subjobs not "job level", but "having these skills". For example, to become a "Sword Master", you must have the "Double Cut" (given by either the Warrior or the Thief) and the "Counter" (given by the Berserker) Skills.

[PapaQuackers]

I second that, as an aside if you do decide that you want to change Red Mage into Bard I would change the entry point for Time Mage to 4 levels of Black Mage. Traditionally Time Mage doesn't actually require any cross class skills, coming back to tactics Time Mage was unlocked after 2 levels of Black Mage.

[R.Shackleford]

Ok, so I'm mostly dead from work (15 hr day) , so bear with me please.




Erm, If I may. I think you should make Scholar the Black/White mage mix since that's what it traditionally is. They're the ones who have the most extensive mix of magic in the game but can't use weapons of any kind.

Blue Mage however could definitely be black mage and thief, someone who steals magic from his enemies/monsters.

Black Mage + White Mage will be one of the ways to get to thr scholar subjob.



You got the Bard as a Red Mage subjob. I personally think that using Bard as a main job would be the best, as FF has had its share of wily dancers, strange mimics and spoony bards in the series, and it would map better the 6th stat with Charisma (Warrior is clearly STR; Thief is DEX; Barbarian is CON; Black Mage is INT; White Mage is WIS; and Red Mage is... CHA?). Lastly, Red Mage would be a nice subjob to both White and Black mages (Maybe White 2 + Black 2 + Warrior 1 ?) and/or the Warrior class.


Bards are... not all that iconic to D&D, Sarda really did a number on the 5th light warrior.

Also I've toyed with the idea of class based modifier for regular D&D... I wouldn't do the class switch with it but it could work well.



We do not speak of tactics advanced, that game was an abomination. It looks like he wants to go with the Gish Blue Mage anyway from what I can see. Warrior/Black Mage. I would also concur with analysis put forward for Red Mage. Perhaps if they have an even distribution of each class level like 2/2/2/2/2/2 they can unlock the Red Mage. Kind of like first edition Bard.

Tactics Advance was awesome.



If it must be gish, I agree with Thief/Black Mage fo sho'. That Red Mage idea works better, too - they get Doublecast while they have that or some acceptable transitional state (for when you don't have 6-divisible point counts).

Blue Mages are typically always gishes. Even the Gun Mage dress sphere (X2) was gishy.


Subbed to Thread. Will be following this closely, hoping that it is completed :D I like the work done so far, though I have to ask, instead of gaining +1 every 3 levels to all, when do you get +1 to any 1 so you can SWITCH Jobs? Because as presented, if I go

Warrior: 13
Thief: 14
Beserker: 12
Black Mage: 15
White Mage: 10
Red Mage: 8

At level 20, my scores will be

Warrior: 19
Thief: 20
Beserker: 18
Black Mage: 20
White Mage: 16
Red Mage: 14

While at level 18, I can start picking up either Black Mage OR Thief features.... There's no real point by then...
Thanks :D

You can switch your ability scores 1/long rest. This is what has you change your job. You could pick up Black Mage at any time really.

Really by level 20 I wouldn't mind if everyone had max stats. One of the fun things about FF is having those awesome stats.

Your stats don't make the character after all. How you use them does.


Limiting Subjobs - definitely a good idea.

Multiple entry points - SUUUUPER good idea. And you're right about the majority of blue mage characters, come to think of it - so used to the TA versions since they're the only ones I've actually finished (some contact with others - IX, original Tactics, XIII, V, III)...

Thanks.

About the only blue mage that isn't "wild" would be Quistis, but even then she uses a whip and is/was a teacher that is hitting on youe character so... a different kind of wild?


Suggestion for multi-entry points subjobs:

1) Make some skills appear in more than one job. Maybe you can grab (for example) the skill "Double Cut" both as a Warrior and as a Thief. They don't stack, and might have some smallish diferences, but they'll share the same name.

2) Make the prerequisite of subjobs not "job level", but "having these skills". For example, to become a "Sword Master", you must have the "Double Cut" (given by either the Warrior or the Thief) and the "Counter" (given by the Berserker) Skills.

I think this would get a bit too complicated. One of the main goals of 5e was to stay simple (which it did and didn't do) but I want to try and stay simple.

I would put this as an optional rule set though. I like the idea but for the base game I think keeping things simple would work better.

Plus in a lot of FF games you just need X abilities of certain classes to open up new jobs and I like that nostalgia.


I second that, as an aside if you do decide that you want to change Red Mage into Bard I would change the entry point for Time Mage to 4 levels of Black Mage. Traditionally Time Mage doesn't actually require any cross class skills, coming back to tactics Time Mage was unlocked after 2 levels of Black Mage.

Bard won't ever be a base class. :)

Though I may just switch out Red Mage with Green Mage, I'm a big fan of green magic.

Though Black Mage 4 can be one of the ways to become a time mage.

****

Subjobs (need a new name I think) may or may not have their own passive abilities.

****
Notes

The action economy will never be broken.

I want power from jobs to expand, not to rise.

I want to keep this system simple yet able to be customized.

Races may have their own special subjobs.

****
Changes to make

Subjobs will come online at level 5.

Multiple ways to get to a subjob.

If I was going to change the Red Mage out of the base class lineup, I would replace it with a pure magic type such as a Green Mage.

I'm open to suggestions on what class could replace the red mage, though no Bards :p

[PapaQuackers]

Off the top of my head Oracle (Green Mage) sounds fine. Charisma based debuffing is not unreasonable. Though Bard really does sound like the ideal slot. I wouldnt be opposed to Geomancer either but youd neef to justify the charisma thing. I think the main question is whether every role can be covered basically off the bat.


Bruiser
Tank
Mage
Healer
Skill Monkey.

Warrior
Blank
Black Mage
White Mage
Thief

And then we have beserker and red mage which both seem very unbasic to me and neither is really tanky.

I dont have a great answer but food for thought at least

[R.Shackleford]

Off the top of my head Oracle (Green Mage) sounds fine. Charisma based debuffing is not unreasonable. Though Bard really does sound like the ideal slot. I wouldnt be opposed to Geomancer either but youd neef to justify the charisma thing. I think the main question is whether every role can be covered basically off the bat.


Bruiser
Tank
Mage
Healer
Skill Monkey.

Warrior
Blank
Black Mage
White Mage
Thief

And then we have beserker and red mage which both seem very unbasic to me and neither is really tanky.

I dont have a great answer but food for thought at least

Well, it wouldn't be Charisma based at all.

There is no connection between ability scores and classes. Ability Scores is a fluff feature for the most part that you determine by taking skills.

Yeah, your green mage may have three charisma skills but you could just as easily have 0 charisma skills.

Nothing about the thief really makes them a skill monkey. They are a thief. Everyone will get the same number of skills with the finished product.

I'm not sure how red mage can be considered a non-basic job when it is one of the initial basic jobs out there. :smalltongue:

I'm OK with switching the red mage and I'm not one to stick strictly to tradition (beserker) but the red mage is more of a basic job than most other choices.


Edit

I'm going to replace concentration with "ongoing" and a caster may have one ongoing spell active but it may be effecting more than one target. Can't lose concentration.

Also, the spells gained by jobs will be the 2nd level of those spells. Magic items (rods, staves, instruments) will give the first level of those spells.

Green Mage Features would be...

Enhance Element (Oil isn't a very "green" spell but you can fluff it as oil or some other type effect)

Blind

Silence

Aero 2: Wind damage

Quake 2: Earth damage

[JBPuffin]

I'm OK with switching the red mage and I'm not one to stick strictly to tradition (beserker) but the red mage is more of a basic job than most other choices.

While it was one of the first six, since it has both magics and swordfighting it's one of the least basic classes in the game...Something to consider.

[Master Elodin]

It may be hard to implement, but what about Beastmaster or Animist as your CHA base job? I think it works thematically and allows you to more naturally create some of the jobs like Chocobo Knight.

Also, it would be cool to have a Warrior/Blackmage Dark Knight class, and an Onion Knight class.

EDIT: Oh! Just had an interesting idea, what about having Jobs for certain races replaced with their race-specific ones? So a Moogle Warrior would be a Mog/Moogle Knight, and a Veira Warrior would be a Fencer.

[R.Shackleford]

It may be hard to implement, but what about Beastmaster or Animist as your CHA base job? I think it works thematically and allows you to more naturally create some of the jobs like Chocobo Knight.

Also, it would be cool to have a Warrior/Blackmage Dark Knight class, and an Onion Knight class.

EDIT: Oh! Just had an interesting idea, what about having Jobs for certain races replaced with their race-specific ones? So a Moogle Warrior would be a Mog/Moogle Knight, and a Veira Warrior would be a Fencer.

There is no Cha based jobs.

Like... there is no real ability scores that denote str, dex, con, int, wis, or cha in this game, not in the way that D&D uses them. If you want your job to be "cha based" then take some Cha skills... But the warrior could be a Cha job or so can the Thief... It's all on how you fluff your individual character and take skills.

You could fluff your Black Mage as low Int, Wis, and Cha and make it where their magic is based on luck/randomness and tied to their Constitution.:)


====

Edit

So I was thinking about something with the sub jobs.

Instead of giving you a bunch of new features, I'm thinking of giving each one feature that can modify the features of other jobs. You can still only take one job from each base class, even if that job shows up under multiple base classes.

Dark Knight: Darkness

Whenever you use a Battle Malice feature you may take 1d4 damage to increase your weapon damage by 1d6. The damage you take can not be resisted in any way. The damage you receive is untyped but the damage added to yoru attack is [Dark].

(Making darkness this way is just a spitball example, not something I'm devoted to)

With this I would give each sub job a few features that you can choose from when you gain the subjob. However, subjobs will no longer be a "level" they would be something that you gain on top of your class feature you gain.

Dark Knight (Warrior Sub Job)
Warrior 3/Black Mage 2

Time Mage (Black Mage and Green Mage Sub-Job)
Black Mage 5

Level 1 (Wr): Armor Break
Level 2 (Wr): Power Break
Level 3 (Wr): Magic Break
Level 4 (BM): Fire 2
Level 5 (BM): Lightning 2, Dark Knight Feature: Darkness
Level 6 (BM): Blizzard 2
Level 7 (BM): Frog
Level 8 (BM): Death, Time Mage Feature: Slow

So at this point you wouldn't be able to pick up any sub jobs that appear on the Warrior or Black Mage list. Some sub-jobs will show up on multiple lists but it keeps you from double dipping.


Edit Weapons and Magic Implements

Weapons

Anyone can use any weapon or magic implement. However if you use a weapon that is part of your current job you use them better than others (improved damage or perhaps the basic usage takes less MP).

Beserker Weapons

Improvised
Swords (Heavy)
Unarmed Strikes
Unique Weapons

Thief Weapons

Bows
Daggers
Knuckles
Swords
Unique Weapons

Warrior Weapons

Axes
Bows
Hammers
Swords
Swords (Heavy)

Magic Implements

Black Mage (Rods)

Blaze Rod: Allows the wielder to cast Fire 1.

Lightning Rod: Allows the wielder to cast Lightning 1.

Snow Rod: Allows the wielder to cast Blizzard 1.

Serpent Rod: Allows the wielder to cast Poison 1.

Green Mage (Poles)
Aero Pole
Blind Pole
Quake Pole
Silence Pole
Sleep Pole

White Mage (Staffs)
Cure Staff
Esuna Staff
Protect Staff
Shell Staff
Raise Staff

[PapaQuackers]

Possible Subjob mixes for your enjoyment.

Warrior4/Berserk1=Dragoon Knight
Black Mage3/Warrior2=Mystic Knight
Monk5=Black Belt
Warrior 5= Gladiator
Thief3/Berserker2=Juggler

And these are just some that I'd like to see I'm sure there's a bunch more I could throw forward.

[R.Shackleford]

Possible Subjob mixes for your enjoyment.

Warrior4/Berserk1=Dragoon Knight
Black Mage3/Warrior2=Mystic Knight
Monk5=Black Belt
Warrior 5= Gladiator
Thief3/Berserker2=Juggler

And these are just some that I'd like to see I'm sure there's a bunch more I could throw forward.

I can always take more suggestions.

Warrior 5 will go into Monk
White Mage 3 / Warrior 2 will go into White Monk
Black Mage 3 / Warrior 2 will go into Black Monk
Green Mage 3 / Warrior 2 will go into Green Monk

Basically each two class combo will have at least one sub job.

[PapaQuackers]

I don't think it would be unreasonable to let Warrior 5 go into two separate routes only because it requires that you focus a lot of effort onto one job.

I think having all of the basic classes have a split after 5 straight levels of it would be a great reward for laser focus.

That being said if you want to keep Warrior 5 just for monk and boot Gladiator entirely that's fine too.

[khadgar567]

I can always take more suggestions.

Warrior 5 will go into Monk
White Mage 3 / Warrior 2 will go into White Monk
Black Mage 3 / Warrior 2 will go into Black Monk
Green Mage 3 / Warrior 2 will go into Green Monk

Basically each two class combo will have at least one sub job.
what about red mage 3 / warrior 2 what thing it turns red monk or some exotic class

[R.Shackleford]

I don't think it would be unreasonable to let Warrior 5 go into two separate routes only because it requires that you focus a lot of effort onto one job.

I think having all of the basic classes have a split after 5 straight levels of it would be a great reward for laser focus.

That being said if you want to keep Warrior 5 just for monk and boot Gladiator entirely that's fine too.

Well, I'm not booting anything?

What I meant is that Monk is not a base job, you had Monk 5 going into Black Belt. Once you qualify for one of the monk subjobs you may take that sub job.

Sub jobs will most likely be a choice of two or three features that you can choose from that changes your base job features.

<><><><><>

Warrior 3/Green Mage 2 = Green Monk
Green Mage 3/ Beserker 2 = Green Monk

If you take Green Monk from the warrior list you can't later take green monk from the green mage list.

[R.Shackleford]

what about red mage 3 / warrior 2 what thing it turns red monk or some exotic class

Red Mage is no longer a base job.

I need to update the base job list on the link.

[PapaQuackers]

Oh I see, I didn't realize that's what you were referring too. So subjobs won't progress any farther then? If I pursue 5 levels of monk there's nothing after that?

That's my bad I misread what you were actually referring to.

[R.Shackleford]

Oh I see, I didn't realize that's what you were referring too. So subjobs won't progress any farther then? If I pursue 5 levels of monk there's nothing after that?

That's my bad I misread what you were actually referring to.

I'm going to make subjobs work in such a way that they give you a new feature that can modify your other features. Subjobs will also open up Proficiencies and passive abilities.

Subjobs aren't levels at all.

For example...

Warrior 1: Power Break
Warrior 2: Mental Break
Warrior 3: Magic Break
Warrior 4: Armor Break
Warrior 5: Flametongue, Monk Feature
Warrior 6: krakenblade
Warrior 7: hawktalon
Warrior 8: Icebrand


The Warrior won't be able to take any other Warrior jobs. They can still progress as Warrior tho.

I'm going to make it where once you learn all (maybe most?) of your job features, you can use your passive ability in any other job.

[JBPuffin]

He listened! And brought us Green Mage as a base class, which I like. When did green magic (being called that, at least) first become a thing? All I know is FFTA-2 (I know, I know...), but I doubt that's its only appearance in the games.

[R.Shackleford]

He listened! And brought us Green Mage as a base class, which I like. When did green magic (being called that, at least) first become a thing? All I know is FFTA-2 (I know, I know...), but I doubt that's its only appearance in the games.

The first appearance of Green Magic, from what I recall, came from the initial Final Fantasy XII. A couple years later Final Fantasy Tactics A2 had green magic.

Absolutely loved both games and I like the classification of green magic to be separate from black and white.

[JBPuffin]

The first appearance of Green Magic, from what I recall, came from the initial Final Fantasy XII. A couple years later Final Fantasy Tactics A2 had green magic.

Absolutely loved both games and I like the classification of green magic to be separate from black and white.

Ah, thank you. I agree - having a specialized debuff magic type makes things more black and white...am I right? Guys?
Who turned off the lights?

[R.Shackleford]

Ah, thank you. I agree - having a specialized debuff magic type makes things more black and white...am I right? Guys?
Who turned off the lights?

I really like the set up that Final Fantasy 13 has for "classes". The Synergist and the Saboteur being seperate from the Ravager and Medic was actually quite nice.

[PapaQuackers]

In lieu of actual classes it really felt pretty underwhelming for me but honestly I was pretty disillusioned with most of Final Fantasy 13 and it's superfluous sequels.

So I was looking at your damage system and I think perhaps I'm a little confused. What you're saying is you get a number of attacks equal to the number of damage dice that you get which is equal to your current job level?

So if I take 5 levels in warrior I'll get 5d6 to spread out how I choose? But what if I take 5 levels in Warrior and then switch over to Black Mage will I then be knocked back down to 1d6 or do I retain the d6 from the Warrior levels?

I'm just trying to get understand it as best I can to give you accurate feedback, it sounds interesting though if that's how it actually functions.

[JBPuffin]

I really like the set up that Final Fantasy 13 has for "classes". The Synergist and the Saboteur being seperate from the Ravager and Medic was actually quite nice.

I wasn't going to step that far just in case. I appreciated their just saying "here's what these do," but I also had no idea what Sentinel was doing there. It seemed like a last minute idea tbh, and I've played quite a bit of DnD 4e where a similar role makes up a little less than a quarter of the classes...


In lieu of actual classes it really felt pretty underwhelming for me but honestly I was pretty disillusioned with most of Final Fantasy 13 and it's superfluous sequels.

So I was looking at your damage system and I think perhaps I'm a little confused. What you're saying is you get a number of attacks equal to the number of damage dice that you get which is equal to your current job level?

So if I take 5 levels in warrior I'll get 5d6 to spread out how I choose? But what if I take 5 levels in Warrior and then switch over to Black Mage will I then be knocked back down to 1d6 or do I retain the d6 from the Warrior levels?

I'm just trying to get understand it as best I can to give you accurate feedback, it sounds interesting though if that's how it actually functions.

For weapon, its's either the highest or the total - in true FF style, I'd go for the highest, since HP's practically exponential in the games. For features, it's the job related to the feature - Warrior and Warrior subclasses would use Warrior mod, Greens your Green mod, etc.

[R.Shackleford]

In lieu of actual classes it really felt pretty underwhelming for me but honestly I was pretty disillusioned with most of Final Fantasy 13 and it's superfluous sequels.

So I was looking at your damage system and I think perhaps I'm a little confused. What you're saying is you get a number of attacks equal to the number of damage dice that you get which is equal to your current job level?

So if I take 5 levels in warrior I'll get 5d6 to spread out how I choose? But what if I take 5 levels in Warrior and then switch over to Black Mage will I then be knocked back down to 1d6 or do I retain the d6 from the Warrior levels?

I'm just trying to get understand it as best I can to give you accurate feedback, it sounds interesting though if that's how it actually functions.

Final Fantasy 13 was awesome, could be better but wow do I love that world and system... The sequel are just FF XIII-2 and FF XIII-LR are Serah's crystal dreams which is why they seem like a Dr. Who fanfiction (my friend's description) and why the third one sets Serah's hero/god figure up as god. These two games make Mystic Quest and FF2's battle system both look like a work of perfect art.

These two games can go die in a fire. Mechanics aren't bad, just the plot, characters, and overall story.


Anyways... And I'm not married to this idea but its something I've thrown around for a while.

So if you normally have a Warrior Score 20 which is a +5 modifier. You are performing a Weapon Attack (basic) you would roll your attack and deal 5d6 versus a target. However, if you want to attack more than one creature you can split up your damage between them, the damage is lessened because you aren't giving it your all.

It isn't based on Warrior Level but your modifier from your Warrior Score.

At first level your highest score will be 16 (+3) so your weapon attack, on a hit, will deal 3d6 damage (10.5 average damage) (which is about where a 5e fighter would be... 1d8 + 3 + 2 (dueling) = 9.5 damage before any add ons).

However you can sacrifice some of the damage in order to roll a second or third attack due to having that +3 modifier. For each point of the modifier you gain a d6 on the weapon attack.

I'm going to give weapons a damage table I think, that way the damage die is actually tied to the specific jobs. So, for heavy weapons the beserker and warrior may deal d10s but all others will be rolling d6s. Same with magic rods, staves, and poles... The damage they deal will be based off your current class in relation to that implement's base class.




Weapon/Implement Name
d10
d8
d6


Axes
Warrior, Beserker
Thief, Green Mage
Black Mage, White Mage


Bombs
Thief
Warrior, Beserker
Black Mage, White Mage, and Green Mage


Swords (1 Handed)
Warrior, Thief
Beserker
Black Mage, White Mage, Green Mage


Lightning Rod (Spell)
Black Mage
Green Mage, Thief
Warrior, Beserker, White Mage


Aero Pole (Spell)
Green Mage
Black Mage, Thief
Warrior, Beserker, White Mage




The d10 column also shows you what job modifier to use when dealing damage.

If I'm a warrior that has a Aero Pole equipped and I cast Aero 1 from it, I would use my Green Mage modifier and deal [Green Mage Modifier]d6 damage. If I have a +2 or higher modifier I can split the attack up against multiple targets. Each target will take at least a d6 worth of damage. If the same Warrior attacks with their Axe, that warrior would deal [Warrior Mod]d10 on a hit. If the warrior has a +3 modifier from their Warrior Score they can attack 1, 2, or 3 targets and split up their damage.

I'll eventually sit down and have this explained properly but you deal modifier x damage die when you hit with an attack. You may split this damage up over multiple targets. The weapon or impliment will determine which JOB modifier will be used to determine your damage and how many targets you can potentially attack.


====



I wasn't going to step that far just in case. I appreciated their just saying "here's what these do," but I also had no idea what Sentinel was doing there. It seemed like a last minute idea tbh, and I've played quite a bit of DnD 4e where a similar role makes up a little less than a quarter of the classes...



For weapon, its's either the highest or the total - in true FF style, I'd go for the highest, since HP's practically exponential in the games. For features, it's the job related to the feature - Warrior and Warrior subclasses would use Warrior mod, Greens your Green mod, etc.

The sentinel was amazing, Lightning as a sentinel was just... Brutal :D.

[khadgar567]

is gunblades are on table

[R.Shackleford]

is gunblades are on table

I'm thinking of making a separate table for "special weapons" which would be things like Gunblades (think Lightning more so than Squall/Seifer but those work too I guess), giant Nunchaku, Busterswords and other speciality weapons that belong to specific characters more so than being a general weapon. A few of the weapons from Type-0 would make it here.

Gunblades would switch from blade to gun with a bonus action.

[khadgar567]

I'm thinking of making a separate table for "special weapons" which would be things like Gunblades (think Lightning more so than Squall/Seifer but those work too I guess), giant Nunchaku, Busterswords and other speciality weapons that belong to specific characters more so than being a general weapon. A few of the weapons from Type-0 would make it here.

Gunblades would switch from blade to gun with a bonus action.
Thanks and how we can learn army of one or omnislash as skill

[PapaQuackers]

Now that is actually a very interesting question. Are limit breaks going to be a part of this hack? What of Materia and it's kin?

The Final Fantasy D20 rule set is understandably 900 pages long. If we're going to do a 5e hack I suggest we narrow our field of vision a bit to a set couple of Final Fantasy source material to work from as to avoid over complication.

[R.Shackleford]

Thanks and how we can learn army of one or omnislash as skill


Now that is actually a very interesting question. Are limit breaks going to be a part of this hack? What of Materia and it's kin?

The Final Fantasy D20 rule set is understandably 900 pages long. If we're going to do a 5e hack I suggest we narrow our field of vision a bit to a set couple of Final Fantasy source material to work from as to avoid over complication.


I may or may not make limits a thing, I've thought of using the escalation die from 13th Age as a way to represent the limit guage... But really that might get too fiddly.

Materia is not the job system so it will not be part of this.

You could fluff it, but a materia system would be it's own thing (and you wouldn't have jobs).

A 5e materia system could work well enough I think.


===

So, I haven't decided yet on a damage system. The current way I would like to do things might get a bit fiddly so I'm thinking of other ways but don't really want to go with the normal roll die + modifier.

Damage = Weapon/Implement Die (based on current job) x Modifier

Busey the Black mage wants to cast Fire 1 at an enemy and the attack hits. Busey has a Black Mage modifier of +3. Fire deals 1d10 damage due to being a black mage. Busey rolls 1d10 and then multiplies it by 3. The range would be 3 Points of damage (1 x 3 = 3) to 30 points of damage (10 x 3 = 30) with an average of 16.5 (5.5 x 3 = 16.5).

Then just make an AoE rule for both weapons and magic. Not sure how I want to do this yet but I'll figure something out.

===

Passive Features
As you gain levels you gain access to passive features. You may have one passive feature active at a time, you may switch passive features during a short or long rest.

Passive features will typically be tied your your proficiency bonus.

Move MP-Up
Each time you move at least 10' in battle your MP increases by your proficiency bonus. This feature does not allow you to regain more than your maximum MP.

[R.Shackleford]

I have some updates I would like to get some comments on from anyone that is still interested.




Made rules for NOT using the job switch system. Everyone plays as a Freelancer. This is for anyone that is interested in the system but doesn't want to deal with the fiddly switching of jobs!
Skill system is using SpawnofMorbo's no ability score system. This should give a bit more diversity to the skill system.
Splitting up each job's features into two groups. This way I can make each job have abilities work different ways. I didn't want Teleport and Fire 2 to work the same way.
Updated some Passive Features. I'm ok with changing these but I kinda like them.
Gave each job weapons and implement that relate to that job. These show which modifier you should use when wielding these weapons and implements.
Damage is, different, than in D&D. Everyone will do essentially the same potential damage since everyone will have cool things to do. Weapons and Implements will determine the actual die used... However splitting up your damage is based on your prof bonus. This decreases your specific damage but spreads it out more. I want to have every enemy be given vulnerability and a lot of enemies having resistances. Some enemies will be healed by certain damage types (Bombs being healed by Fire).
There is no difference between magical damage and regular damage, the damage type will matter but fire acts like fire no matter where its from.
Passive features, one of the things I loved about some final fantasy games is their passive features. I'm not 100% sure how I want to set these up but so far so good I think.


I think that's about it... I haven't touched sub jobs just yet.