Low Drama Ranger "spruce-up". Opinions on balance desired.

[rudy]

Hey! So a player for a game I'm running wants to play a Ranger thematically but made a convincing argument, backed up by many links, that many specific abilities were rather lackluster and under-powered.

I thought most of the homebrew variants I've seen floating are *too* powerful, so I thought I'd try my hand at sprucing up the Ranger without adding any "new" things. Any opinions (or general advice on the situation) is appreciated.

Changes
Tool Proficiency: One of Herbalism Kit, Cartographer's Tools, Navigator's Tools, Vehicles (sea OR land)

Favored Enemy: In addition to listed effects, now automatically grants all benefits of "Hunter's Mark" spell against your favored enemies. Does not stack with the effects of the spell. Additional selection granted at 10th.

Natural Explorer: Add 'oceans' option. At 1st, select two terrains. At 6th, select three more terrains. At 10th, you get all the listed terrains. At 14th, applies anywhere the terrain is naturally occurring, including other planes of existence.

Hide in Plain Sight: 9th level 'Camouflage' with same effect (one level earlier)

Vanish: Gained at 13th level (one level earlier)

Primeval Awareness: Starts at 3rd level as normal. At 9th level, you know the direction of any detected creatures.
At 17th level, you know exactly where they are, and have a rough idea of their strength relative to your party.

Foe Slayer (Capstone): Keep the base (add WIS bonus to att & dam against a favored enemy 1/turn), with the following addendum: any specific type of creature (e.g. halfling, red dragon) that you had a direct hand in defeating is treated as a favored enemy by you forever after that encounter.

I considered adding "Urban" as a terrain, but that's going to be way over powered for the kind of campaign we'll be running.

So, any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.

[Gastronomie]

I love how you decided to handle Foe Slayer. Okay, so, it really is complex, but it's not pretty decent.

I would add "You can also give the benefits of Hide in Plain Sight to your allies", because hiding by yourself rarely gives you any benefit at all.

But otherwise I think this is cool. Well done, and I hope your players enjoy it.

And remember that if a problem pops up later, you can always tweak it in-between sessions.

[Tanarii]

Unbalanced. The Ranger is well balanced already, really good at what he does, and okay outside of it, just like any class. You've just cranked everything up more than a few notches.

Edit: I do like the free tool proficiency though.

[Specter]

I did a thread on this a few weeks ago. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?492209-Minifixing-the-Ranger-A-humble-direct-approach&highlight=Minifixing

[rudy]

I love how you decided to handle Foe Slayer. Okay, so, it really is complex, but it's not pretty decent.

I would add "You can also give the benefits of Hide in Plain Sight to your allies", because hiding by yourself rarely gives you any benefit at all.

But otherwise I think this is cool. Well done, and I hope your players enjoy it.

And remember that if a problem pops up later, you can always tweak it in-between sessions.
Thanks! That's a good suggestion; I'll consider it.


Unbalanced. The Ranger is well balanced already, really good at what he does, and okay outside of it, just like any class. You've just cranked everything up more than a few notches.

Edit: I do like the free tool proficiency though.
Thanks on the 'tool proficiency'. I respect and appreciate the input, but I confess I'm not sure where you're getting the "more than a few notches" from. To break it down
* They now no longer have to cast a spell they would have cast anyway when facing their favored enemies (Hunter's Mark)
* They get a lot more terrains for natural explorer, something which is hardly "powerful", while making the player feel cooler.
* A few things are one level earlier.
* Primeval Awareness is no longer trash.

I could get it if you said "a notch", but I'm not seeing more than one, perhaps only half-a-notch, in any of these changes.


I did a thread on this a few weeks ago. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?492209-Minifixing-the-Ranger-A-humble-direct-approach&highlight=Minifixing
Awesome! I looked at it. I'm not a huge fan of adding in things like "you get another save proficiency", though I appreciate your reasoning. I may think about some of your other ideas, though. Thanks!

[Grod_The_Giant]

I like the Favored Enemy boost, as the existing ability is almost entirely forgettable and, just, generally crappy. I'd add in "distance" to Primeval Awareness at 9th-- or maybe make the benefit dependent on the spell slot? (1st=presence, 2nd=distance or direction, 3rd=both, 4th=exact position)


Unbalanced. The Ranger is well balanced already, really good at what he does, and okay outside of it, just like any class. You've just cranked everything up more than a few notches.
But what he does (navigate the wilderness, track) isn't very nice useful. Or rather it is, but it's far too narrow and low-impact for the class.

[rudy]

or maybe make the benefit dependent on the spell slot? (1st=presence, 2nd=distance or direction, 3rd=both, 4th=exact position)
This is a really elegant idea. What about something like:

* Starts at 3rd level as normal
* If you use a 2nd level spell, you can know the direction of any detected creatures.
* If you use a 3rd level spell, you can know the distance and direction of any detected creatures.
* If you use a 4th level spell, you have a rough idea of their strength relative to your party.
* If you use a 5th level spell, you know the exact numbers. If you have encountered the type of creatures before, you will also know their exact type (e.g. red dragon).

[MrStabby]

Not a complete disaster. Ranger has a few oddities - level 1 is... uninspiring.

At high levels the ranger falls appart. The strengths in things like stealth and scouting get superceded by magic - magic eye, pass without trace etc. all mean that being good at these things is less relevant. Forraging for food becomes irrelevant with create food and water, goodberry etc. and the ranger needs a new role when these things become obselete.

Sorting out the level 7+ levels could do with a bit of a hand.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Not a complete disaster. Ranger has a few oddities - level 1 is... uninspiring.

At high levels the ranger falls appart. The strengths in things like stealth and scouting get superceded by magic - magic eye, pass without trace etc. all mean that being good at these things is less relevant. Forraging for food becomes irrelevant with create food and water, goodberry etc. and the ranger needs a new role when these things become obselete.

Sorting out the level 7+ levels could do with a bit of a hand.
I bet you could do a lot with some judicious poaching from the Druid list, possibly on top of switching to Prepared spellcasting. (I also like giving the 5th level casters a couple of cantrips from first level, for that added little bit of magic and options)

[Specter]

Ranger's first level is not good, but not terrible either. He should be doing damage and exploring well. The paladin at level is just a poor man's cleric and no one complains about that.

[rudy]

Revision. Anything not mentioned works like Vanilla Ranger.

Tool Proficiency: One of Herbalism Kit, Cartographer's Tools, Navigator's Tools, Vehicles (sea OR land)

Favored Enemy: Selections at 1st, 6th, 10th, 14th, 18th. You gain advantage on Wisdom (Perception) rolls made to detect your favored enemies, on Wisdom (Survival) rolls made to track them, and on Intelligence checks to recall information about them. You may spend a bonus action to focus on one of your favored enemies within 90 feet that you can see, gaining 1d6 damage to weapon attacks made against that enemy, until you focus on another. This damage does not stack with ‘Hunter’s Mark’.

Compared to the version in the OP, this is weaker, because it requires that you use your bonus action. I made this change because I think the OP version was too much of an action economy win compared to the base. It's still better than just using the spell, first because it gives you the Perception boost *before* you see them, and because it doesn't require concentration to maintain.

Primeval Awareness: Radius of detection is a number of miles up to the level of spell used. When used within a favored terrain, you can detect the approximate distance, direction and type (e.g. ‘dragon’) of a number of creatures equal to your wisdom modifier. The most powerful (highest CR) are detected first.

This is significantly different than the OP version; stronger in favored terrains, less versatile otherwise. The increased radius of detection seemed a good and straightforward boost from using higher level spells, since the duration alone wasn't really enough to justify doing so.

Natural Explorer: List of terrains now includes ‘Ocean’. In addition to listed abilities, you gain proficiency in Stealth & Survival within your terrains. If you already have proficiency, then your proficiency bonus is doubled.
At 1st level, select one terrain.
At 6th level, select two more terrains.
At 10th level, select one more terrain. Additionally, by spending a long rest within another terrain type on the list, you can ‘adapt’ to that terrain, treating it as one of your favored terrains until you ‘adapt’ to a different terrain.
At 14th level, you may ‘adapt’ to any naturally occurring terrain, including other planes of existence.
At 18th level, once you have adapted to a terrain it is permanently one of your favored terrains.

Stronger due to the proficiency boost for Stealth and Survival. A little weaker in that you need to 'adapt' to terrains beyond your base ones, but that's more a flavor change than anything.

Hide in Plain Sight (Camouflage): Within one of your favored terrains, you can grant yourself and others the ability to blend in seamlessly by camouflaging them. Camouflaging a medium or small sized creature requires one minute each, and access to natural materials. A camouflaged character gains advantage on stealth checks made to remain hidden. The camouflage bonus is lost after an hour has passed, or if you leave the terrain type in which it was applied, or if the camouflaged creature takes actions, reactions or bonus actions requiring motion. This includes casting spells with somatic components.

Very different. "Weaker" in that it doesn't give +10, but much more versatile and (I think) likely to actually be useful.

Foe Slayer: As normal (add WIS bonus to att & dam for one favored enemy per round), with the following addendum: any specific type of creature (e.g. halfling, red dragon) that you play a hand in defeating is treated as a favored enemy by you, forever after that encounter.

Same as OP

Note that Hide in Plain Sight and Vanish were restored to their original levels of 10 and 14; I'd forgotten about the Proficiency boosts happening at 9 and 13. Along with the Ranger spell increases at those levels, I don't think more goodies are needed then.

[Tanarii]

But what he does (navigate the wilderness, track) isn't very nice useful. Or rather it is, but it's far too narrow and low-impact for the class.D&D is a game of Dungeon and Wilderness Adventures.

What a ranger does is helpful in half the intended game. Sure, if you're in a Dungeon the entire time, it's not particularly useful. Nor is a Druid. Nor are many uses of Skills, and many spells. If your DM is limiting the game to 1/2 of it's intended scope, it's hardly fair to criticize the class balance.