A idea for a fun unorthodox build

[Sir cryosin]

A sharpshooter javelin hurling Barbarian. So I'm watching a DnD game. Where the groups barbarian can get in melee with a dragon so he starts hurling javelin's at it. So that got me thinking of how can we make a str range character. So how should we tackle this ya'll should we go with barbarian, ranger, roguse, fighter or some combination. I at first was thinking of Barbarian for its rage damage to attacks.

[Goober4473]

Technically you can't apply sharpshooter to javelins. Or rather, you can apply its first two benefits, which specify ranged attacks, and ranged weapon attacks respectively. But the -5/+10 effect requires a ranged weapon, and a ranged weapon attack made with a melee weapon with the thrown property doesn't apply.

That said, I don't see why a DM wouldn't allow it.

[Sir cryosin]

Technically you can't apply sharpshooter to javelins. Or rather, you can apply its first two benefits, which specify ranged attacks, and ranged weapon attacks respectively. But the -5/+10 effect requires a ranged weapon, and a ranged weapon attack made with a melee weapon with the thrown property doesn't apply.

That said, I don't see why a DM wouldn't allow it.

I'm afb right now but I do believe javelins are classified as ranger weapons. Other wise why are there javelin, and spears. So sharpshooter should apply javelins are ment to be range weapons.

[Sneak Dog]

Technically you can't apply sharpshooter to javelins. Or rather, you can apply its first two benefits, which specify ranged attacks, and ranged weapon attacks respectively. But the -5/+10 effect requires a ranged weapon, and a ranged weapon attack made with a melee weapon with the thrown property doesn't apply.

That said, I don't see why a DM wouldn't allow it.

Thrown weapons are ranged weapons. This also means you cannot apply the rage damage bonus nor reckless attack on throwing javelins either. I'd go with a level of fighter into rogue, for medium or heavy armour and then getting sneak attack to the thrown weapons.

Why thrown weapons are ranged weapons:
It's never clearly said in the equipment pages that they cannot be both, though I admit that the use of the word 'either' does imply as such.


Every weapon is classified as either melee or ranged. A melee weapon is used to attack a target within 5 feet of you, whereas a ranged weapon is used to attack a target at a distance.


But it is mentioned that a thrown weapon is a ranged weapon, in character creation of all places:


For attacks with ranged weapons, use your Dexterity modifier for attack and damage rolls. A weapon that has the thrown property, such as a handaxe, can use your Strength modifier instead.

[RickAllison]

Thrown weapons are ranged weapons. This also means you cannot apply the rage damage bonus nor reckless attack on throwing javelins either. I'd go with a level of fighter into rogue, for medium or heavy armour and then getting sneak attack to the thrown weapons.

Why thrown weapons are ranged weapons:
It's never clearly said in the equipment pages that they cannot be both, though I admit that the use of the word 'either' does imply as such.


But it is mentioned that a thrown weapon is a ranged weapon, in character creation of all places:

To the PHB, away!!!


If a weapon has the thrown property, you
can throw the weapon to make a ranged attack. If the
weapon is a melee weapon, you use the same ability
modifier for that attack roll and damage roll that you
would use for a melee attack with the w eapon. For
example, if you throw a handaxe, you use your Strength,
but if you throw a dagger, you can use either your
Strength or your Dexterity, since the dagger has the
finesse property.

Basically, javelins are melee weapons that can make ranged weapon attacks. This means they do not work with Sharpshooter's third benefit, but they also do not get to benefit from Rage damage bonus because that triggers off melee weapon attacks (weapon attacks made as melee, rather than by a melee weapon).

Interestingly, that means you can take a blowgun as a barbarian into melee and (especially with Tavern Brawler) get more damage than by staying at range with it. Of course that is so unintuitive that a DM is well within their rights to say "No, thrown javelins can benefit from Sharpshooter while a bow cannot while used as a blunt weapon."

[Sneak Dog]

To the PHB, away!!!
Basically, javelins are melee weapons that can make ranged weapon attacks. This means they do not work with Sharpshooter's third benefit, but they also do not get to benefit from Rage damage bonus because that triggers off melee weapon attacks (weapon attacks made as melee, rather than by a melee weapon).

Interestingly, that means you can take a blowgun as a barbarian into melee and (especially with Tavern Brawler) get more damage than by staying at range with it. Of course that is so unintuitive that a DM is well within their rights to say "No, thrown javelins can benefit from Sharpshooter while a bow cannot while used as a blunt weapon."

So basically, we've the PHB contradicting itself? Saying once a hand axe is a ranged weapon when thrown, once it's a melee weapon regardless? Sweet.

A dwarven fighter throwing hand axes has a certain... flair. Battlemaster with goading attack to fling insults at them. You can even go heavy armour/shield with this.

[RickAllison]

So basically, we've the PHB contradicting itself? Saying once a hand axe is a ranged weapon when thrown, once it's a melee weapon regardless? Sweet.

A dwarven fighter throwing hand axes has a certain... flair. Battlemaster with goading attack to fling insults at them. You can even go heavy armour/shield with this.

I don't think it is really contradicting itself. Re-read your passage:


Every weapon is classified as either melee or ranged. A melee weapon is used to attack a target within 5 feet of you, whereas a ranged weapon is used to attack a target at a distance.

The weapons are classified under their primary use. Melee weapons that possess the Thrown feature are meant to be used in melee, but can also be thrown in a pinch to make a ranged attack. Weapons like the javelin are classified as melee weapons, but they get a specific exception through the thrown keyword that lets them defy the normal use.

[Klorox]

The problem with allowing thrown weapons to get the -5/+10 bonus is you can throw a weapon with each hand (you just don't get strength modifiers to the off hand throw without the dual wield feat).

That's a bit game breaking, but not any more than using a hand crossbow with crossbow master. The difference is that combo requires sharpshooter and crossbow master.

[Sneak Dog]

I don't think it is really contradicting itself. Re-read your passage:



The weapons are classified under their primary use. Melee weapons that possess the Thrown feature are meant to be used in melee, but can also be thrown in a pinch to make a ranged attack. Weapons like the javelin are classified as melee weapons, but they get a specific exception through the thrown keyword that lets them defy the normal use.

Wrong quote. This is the quote you should be quoting:


For attacks with ranged weapons, use your Dexterity modifier for attack and damage rolls. A weapon that has the thrown property, such as a handaxe, can use your Strength modifier instead.


Page 14 of the PHB uses a hand axe as an example of a ranged weapon.


The problem with allowing thrown weapons to get the -5/+10 bonus is you can throw a weapon with each hand (you just don't get strength modifiers to the off hand throw without the dual wield feat).

That's a bit game breaking, but not any more than using a hand crossbow with crossbow master. The difference is that combo requires sharpshooter and crossbow master.

That... is interesting. I didn't know yet two-weapon fighting works with throwing weapon. You need the fighting style to get the strength mod to the off-hand attack, not the feat. Make that a dwarf tossing two axes to the enemy! Erm, add in the dual wielder feat to draw two new hand axes though.

[RickAllison]

Wrong quote. This is the quote you should be quoting:


Page 14 of the PHB uses a hand axe as an example of a ranged weapon.



That... is interesting. I didn't know yet two-weapon fighting works with throwing weapon. You need the fighting style to get the strength mod to the off-hand attack, not the feat. Make that a dwarf tossing two axes to the enemy! Erm, add in the dual wielder feat to draw two new hand axes though.

I don't think that is strong evidence for your interpretation because it is a passage on the attacks. It has been established through other parts of the text and Sage Advice that it is possible for non-ranged/melee weapons to still make ranged/melee weapon attacks. Everything else in the text points to those weapons as being melee weapons (including the actual weapon table), so the text you provided is circumstantial at best and non-applicable at worst.

[Klorox]

That... is interesting. I didn't know yet two-weapon fighting works with throwing weapon. You need the fighting style to get the strength mod to the off-hand attack, not the feat. Make that a dwarf tossing two axes to the enemy! Erm, add in the dual wielder feat to draw two new hand axes though.

IIRC, all you need to make an off-hand attack as a bonus action is for both weapons to have the light property.

So, javelins might not work (IDK if they have the light property). Daggers definitely work, and I'm pretty sure handaxes do as well.

[Theodoxus]

Page 14 of the PHB uses a hand axe as an example of a ranged weapon.

No, that's an example of a melee weapon with the Thrown property.

Weapons are designated in the weapons lists as Melee or Ranged. 3rd bullet point of Sharpshooter requires an attack with a ranged weapon. That would only those listed under "Simple Ranged Weapons" and "Martial Ranged Weapons".

Thrown weapons don't get the 3rd bullet point of Sharpshooter. Thrown weapons don't get the Rage damage when thrown. Only daggers can be used with Thrown sneak. A javelin used in conjunction with SS would have a range of 120', where a every other thrown (including spear) is 60'. [just pointing out the differences between javelins and spears - above and beyond the versatile property on spears]

To the OP: I would probably go full rogue for this build. The rogue class abilities synergize well with the desired combat style; additional sneak dice are great, if you can get a helper to grant sneak or at least advantage. SS is kinda meh - the 30' range is probably adequate... skulker would be useful though.