Playing OSR soon. Is there any optimization?

[Klorox]

I'm talking old school basic D&D.

The seven classes are:

Fighter
Magic User
Cleric
Thief
Halfling
Dwarf
Elf

I realize the idea the group is going to this old school system is to keep it really simple. The only "powergame" option I see is playing an elf, which is half fighter, half magic user. Plus, the demi-humans have infravision and better saving throws.

[thirdkingdom]

Well, elves also advance much more slowly. If you do 3d6, in order, and roll hit points there's really no *way* to optimize. Not, at least, in the sense you're thinking of, probably. I certainly wouldn't consider elves to be overpowered.

[Thrudd]

Roll the dice, see what classes you might qualify for, and pick the one that seems most fun for you. Roll for HP, pick what weapon or weapons you will know how to use, roll for starting gold and purchase your gear. If you're a magic user, choose or roll for the spell you know. That's character creation.

If you are lucky enough to roll 15 or more in something, pick a class that has that ability as its primary attribute to get the XP bonus. That's the most "optimized" thing you can do. If you don't get a high enough ability score, then maybe a demi human is a better choice for the saves and racial abilities or multiclass ability (to make up for levelling more slowly and stopping at level 10 or 8).

[Klorox]

I grew up playing the red box D&D. I just wanted to know if there were any loopholes I wasn't aware of then.

My biggest problem with the game are the magic users and clerics. First level is just so bad for them.

The magic users cast once and then they're useless, and the clerics don't even get a spell at level 1!

[thirdkingdom]

I grew up playing the red box D&D. I just wanted to know if there were any loopholes I wasn't aware of then.

My biggest problem with the game are the magic users and clerics. First level is just so bad for them.

The magic users cast once and then they're useless, and the clerics don't even get a spell at level 1! Magic-users have a single spell to cast, but can also make themselves useful ny throwing daggers, flasks of oil and holy water, carrying torches so that the other classes have both hands free, carrying treasure because they're the least encumbered of all the classes, typically speak more languages because of high intelligence and can translate when encountering monsters that, most often, don't have hostile reactions. Clerics, while not getting a spell at first level, can Turn Undead and fight as well as a fighter at low levels.

Fixed that for you.

[Klorox]

So you're saying a wizard can speak more languages and carry stuff. Ok. I noticed early on, that other than the bonus XP, you'll do just as well with an INT 9 wizard as an INT 18. And while they can help carry stuff, they typically have a lower STR than the other classes, and they were already carrying the torch.

Clerics have less HP than fighters and their weapons only do 1d6 damage.

If we can switch stats around, I'm going with a fighter, thief, dwarf or elf.

It's too bad halflings can't do thiefy stuff.

[Mutazoia]

My biggest problem with the game are the magic users and clerics. First level is just so bad for them.

The magic users cast once and then they're useless, and the clerics don't even get a spell at level 1!

It's a trade off that most people who are use to 3.X god wizards complain about. Sure, MU's get one spell at first level, but they get stronger at a fairly steady rate. Sure, they are weaker. Sure, they are likely to lose a spell if they take damage and fail a concentration check. But being able to bend the fundamental forces of the universe to your will makes up for a lot of their early short comings. You know....to keep things kind of balanced, which is something 3.X threw out the window.

Never underestimate the power of a single "sleep" spell.


So you're saying a wizard can speak more languages and carry stuff. Ok. I noticed early on, that other than the bonus XP, you'll do just as well with an INT 9 wizard as an INT 18.

Remember, that before 3.X, MU's had to roll to see if they could learn a spell. Spells didn't just magically (pun intended) pop into their spell books upon gaining a level. The higher your INT, the higher your percent to know spell. Sure, your MU can get by with an INT of 9, but his spell book is going to be pretty thin.

Plus, the bonus XP...you'll really want that. For ANY class.

[BayardSPSR]

Depending on which OSR you're playing, there might be some comical BS you can do with darts. Which OSR are you playing?

[Arbane]

Never underestimate the power of a single "sleep" spell.


Or even better, "Charm". If it works on a tough-but-dumb monster like an ogre, you now have a VERY effective extra fighter on your side.

[Yora]

The class list is B/X or BECMI, which don't really have any shenaniganswith special weapons or proficiencies.

[hamlet]

Fixed that for you.

I could hug you.

[2D8HP]

Clerics have less HP than fighters and their weapons only do 1d6 damage.

If we can switch stats around, I'm going with a fighter, thief, dwarf or elf.

It's too bad halflings can't do thiefy stuff.
I'm jealous of you being about to play "basic".
Anyway,
If you play original D&D with just the Little Brown Books than all classes had 1d6 hit points, and all weapons did 1d6 damage.
That changed with the Greyhawk supplement, and it brought along with different hit points and weapon damage, the Thief class, which all PC races could play without level limits!
My favorite version of D&D remains oD&D, with the "Holmes" Basic box, the 1977 AD&D Monster Manual, and all the supplements, and magazine articles that were available just before the publication of the 1978 PHB.
It's not quite the same, but these rules linked below come close:

rules (http://www.mediafire.com/?5nzhz1ztiyx)

[Klorox]

Wow, thanks for posting that 2d8! I've never seen that before (although I do recognize the artwork from a grey/blue box I owned but never opened).

As a kid, most of my playing was with the BECMI box sets. Looking back, sure it's restrictive with such few classes, but it just didn't matter then. We just played and had fun.

[cucchulainnn]

As a kid, most of my playing was with the BECMI box sets. Looking back, sure it's restrictive with such few classes, but it just didn't matter then. We just played and had fun.

Ding, Ding, Ding, you have your answer.

[Klorox]

Ding, Ding, Ding, you have your answer.

Perfect then!

BTW, I found out we're doing "Lamentations of the Flame Princess" which is very similar to basic D&D, but a little different.

I'm psyched!

[hamlet]

Perfect then!

BTW, I found out we're doing "Lamentations of the Flame Princess" which is very similar to basic D&D, but a little different.

I'm psyched!

It's actually quite a bit different in some ways, though, yes, similar enough that you'll have strong footing in the rules if you understand Labyrinth Lord and the like.

[BayardSPSR]

rules (http://www.mediafire.com/?5nzhz1ztiyx)

Wonderful! :smallbiggrin: Many thanks.

[Mutazoia]

Or even better, "Charm". If it works on a tough-but-dumb monster like an ogre, you now have a VERY effective extra fighter on your side.

Sleep has no save, so guaranteed to knock out a bunch of enemies. Charm has a save, if your target makes the save, your MU has shot his load for nothing.

[BayardSPSR]

Sleep has no save, so guaranteed to knock out a bunch of enemies.

Well, you're guaranteed to knock out a couple enemies. The total number affected is variable, after all, so there's uncertainty in both.

[Mutazoia]

Well, you're guaranteed to knock out a couple enemies. The total number affected is variable, after all, so there's uncertainty in both.

True, but knocking out 25% - 50% of 4 creatures is always better than doing noting to 100% of 4 creatures. :smallbiggrin:

[Yora]

Taking out a considerable number of enemies with a single spell is also likely to call for a morale check and most enemies have a pretty high chance to fail and flee.

[Jay R]

Optimization is done during the game, not by character design.

In 3e+, you optimize the characters and approach each encounter straightforwardly. In old school D&D, you have basic characters and approach each encounter creatively, looking for ways to use fire, avalanches, confusion, misdirection, etc.

Stop thinking about the character sheet and come up with creative ideas.

[2D8HP]

Clearly this talk of "optimization" is a sign that someone has been led astray and needs correction so they return to the true path.
Then 5e actually came out, and every person I've met in person who has played it has liked it, which made me realize a) there's definitely something wrong with these people and b) we need to set up "AD&D re-education camps" (it's for their own good, really).
:wink:

[SimperingToad]

To be perfectly honest, if you're thinking 'optimization' in the 3E sense, you probably aren't going to like your experiences with 'old school' games. One does not pour over the character sheet trying to squeeze out every bonus possible when gaining levels, but rather the abilities are pretty much set, and the player's creativity is being challenged.

I hear constantly the lament of 1st level spellcasters being useless after using their only spell. They are not, but that requires a different mindset than appears common today. Talk to monsters, or avoid them completely if possible. They are not required to be fought. Make simple trip wires. Check out that ancient writing on the wall. Use your creativity. It becomes a test of how efficiently you can achieve your goal with the least use of resources.

In essence, think what Indiana Jones might do in a similar situation. No spells to get me across the chasm? Hmmm... I've got a whip, and there's that beam overhead just within reach...

[Klorox]

To be perfectly honest, if you're thinking 'optimization' in the 3E sense, you probably aren't going to like your experiences with 'old school' games. One does not pour over the character sheet trying to squeeze out every bonus possible when gaining levels, but rather the abilities are pretty much set, and the player's creativity is being challenged.

I hear constantly the lament of 1st level spellcasters being useless after using their only spell. They are not, but that requires a different mindset than appears common today. Talk to monsters, or avoid them completely if possible. They are not required to be fought. Make simple trip wires. Check out that ancient writing on the wall. Use your creativity. It becomes a test of how efficiently you can achieve your goal with the least use of resources.

In essence, think what Indiana Jones might do in a similar situation. No spells to get me across the chasm? Hmmm... I've got a whip, and there's that beam overhead just within reach...
Oh, I believe I'm being misunderstood here. I'm asking purely out of curiousity.

I spent more hours playing BECMI than any other edition of D&D in my life. I wanted to know if there was some level of optimization that I missed over the years.

We're rolling 3d6 straight down in front of the DM. My character choice will be based on my stats and (if given a choice), based upon what the party needs. I look forward to the most simple form of D&D.