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2D8HP

2016-08-06, 06:41 PM

Posting this on another thread has got me wondering. ..

My "concept" (stuff that seems cool to me) are PC's with outdoor survival and tracking skills like a Ranger, sneak skills like a Rogue, and martial skills like a Fighter, I've always been able to have that in 5e DnD by having either an Outlander or Urchin background, human, half-elf, or elf as a race, and starting 1st level as a Fighter or Rogue.
All of my 5e DnD PC's have been proficient with a bow and sword, had the Stealth skill, and all but one have also had the Survival skill as well, and I just made a PC that has all that plus the ability to cast the Firebolt Cantrip at first level!

I'm very sure that other playgrounders have a better mastery of RAW than I do, so what's the "optimal", and "likely to survive getting there" build for these

Goals:

1) Three or four "Fighting Styles"

2) Good Perception skill

3) Good Stealth skill

4) Good Survival skill

5) Natural Explorer and/or Wanderer Feature

6) Proficient and effective with a Longbow

7) Proficient and effective with a Greatsword, Longsword, and/or a Rapier

8) Second Wind Feature

9) Medium Armor proficiency

"Nice to have, but not essential":

1) Darkvision

2) Heavy Armor proficiency

3) A fast movement rate.

Levels in what; and what order are best?

Klorox

2016-08-06, 07:42 PM

Alright, I'm AFB, but even for #1, if you want 4 fighting styles, you're looking at 10 levels of fighter with the champion archetype, 2 levels of ranger and 2 levels of paladin.

If you're okay with only 3, I'd say you can get what you're looking for with:

I'd say your best bet is going with a wood elf (faster beginning speed) 13/14/14/9/14/13. You could drop DEX to 10 and boost STR, but you'll be favoring that greatsword more than the longbow then.

Fighter 2 (heavy armor, fighting style, action surge)
Paladin 2 (fighting style)
Ranger 2 (extra skill, fighting style)
Rogue (arcane trickster) 6 (extra skill, expertise in three skills, spellcasting)

I'd prefer to go to level 5 as an eldritch knight (for more spells), but you can choose to add 5 levels of barbarian if you'd like for even faster movement, but you lost that heavy armor.

I'm not sure what levels to take, but above are the minimums for your requirements.

Corran

2016-08-06, 08:15 PM

Damn, erased my post by accident before posting, now I have to sum it up (edit: looking at the post after I finished, lol:smalltongue:).

Wood elf, outlander, fighter 11 (battlemaster)/ ranger 3 (hordebreaker)/ rogue 2/ paladin 3 (vengeance). Last level anything from fighter/ranger/paladin to get one more feat, or from rogue(AT)/warlock/sorcerer to get BB among other benefits.

Starting stats: STR 14, DEX 16, CON 11, INT 8, WIS 14, CHA 13. You will be primarily an archer, but you will have a few tricks if you decide to delve into melee.

Lets check what we can check off from your list.
1) 3 fighting styles: archery, mariner (defense if mariner is not allowed) and one more to choose (pick what you like best).

2), 3), 4)Proficient all 3 of them (stealth, perception, survival), and you can expertise two of them from being rogue 2. Stat destribution helps with having good scores in said skills.

5) Check.

6) Eventualy three attacks, battlemaster maneuvres, vow of enmity, and sharpshooter. Cant get any better than that. Oh, and horde breaker. And cunning action to disengage move away and keep shooting. And a good movement speed from being a wood elf. But I am getting ahead of myself, the point is that you will be rocking the longbow.

7) a) Rapier: good dex stat, if we want to make the best of using a rapier, take BB from somewhere, and attack and then disengage and move away. b and c) Longsword (versatile) and greatsword: SRT 14 will have to suffice, since you will be primarily and archer. But if you have to go melee with such a weapon, you can still make good use of horder breaker given the good damage dice of these weapons (d10 and 2d6). Additionaly, you can take GWM if you want to be even better with the greatsword (helps with the longword too, but you cannot profit from the -5/+10 thingy). You have battlemaster maneauvres and vow of enmity to help you, as well as 3 attacks and some smites to use (preferably if you crit, vow of enmity helps in that respect).

8) Check.

9) Check.

As for your additional points, darkvision and fast (enough so that it might make a difference with cunning action in play) movemet rate is achieved by being a wood elf (cunning action helps a bit with the second too). Heavy armor proficiency is satisfied (but not recommended using, due to movement penalty and disadvantage on stealth) if you start as a fighter, which you pretty much should do.

So how to progress?
Well, assuming that you will be focusing in archery, as you should with such a low con, you aim for fighter 11/ ranger 3/ rogue 2 asap. That way you will get your extra attacks and horde breaker fast. Personaly, I would go fighter 5, then maybe take 3 ranger levels to add the ranger fluff stuff a bit early (and horde breaker too, which will make up for delaying our extra attack). Then all the way to fighter 11. As for the rogue levels, you can take them thereafter, or you could even take them somewhere between fighter5/ranger3 and fighter11/ranger3. Cunning action will be useful, as is expertise. It's pretty dificult to give a ''correct'' answer, but now that I think of it, I would probably do this: fighter 5 asap, then ranger 3, then rogue 2, then advance to fighter 11. Anyway, that puts you at fighter11/ranger3/rogue2 at character level 16. Meaning that the bulk of your build's strength is heavily focused in fighting with a bow. After level 16, you can continue with 3 paladin levels. That would hel you a bit in ranged combat (vow of enmity), but basically what this last dip does, is to ensure that you will have some tricks if you venture into melee figting. Lets face it, we cannot make an optimal character who is good at everything. But what we could do, is make a character who is really good at one thing (namely archery) for the majority of his career, and at some late point we can add a few tricks that help him be surprisingly decent in melee. Thus at high levels, you will have a very versatile character, who is good in every concievable way of fighting. Which makes sense for a high level character, but is impractical for low or mid level characters. Last theoritical level could go in once class that gives you a feat, or in a class that gives you BB and some spell/other utility. I would go with the feat.

As far as feats/ASIs go, you would end up with only 4 of them. Sharpshooter and 2 dex bumps are a given, so we are left with just 1. Meh, take GWM at level 20 to round out your build and be done with it.

Thus, outlander, wood elf, starting stats: STR 14, CON 11, DEX 16, INT 8, WIS 14, CHA 13. Speed: 35ft, and mask of the wild (among the other racial benefits). Oh, and 7 skills!!

Level1: Fighter 1: Second wind, archery fighting style
Level2: Fighter 2: Action surge
Level3: Fighter 3: battlemaster maneuvres (take those that work well with a bow, precise comes to mind due to SS)
Level4: Fighter 4: Sharpshooter
Level5: Fighter 5: Extra attack
Level6: Ranger 1: Favored enemy, natural explorer
Level7: Ranger 2: Spells (hunter's mark and ensnaring strike? cure wounds or goodberry?). mariner or defense
Level8: Ranger 3: Horde breaker, Primeval awarness, one more 1st level spell slot
Level9: Rogue 1: Sneak attack (d6), expertise (perception and stealth?), thieves' cant
Level10: Rogue 2: Cunning action (plays well with mask of the wild and with archering)
Level11: Fighter 6: +2 dex
Level12: Fighter 7: Know your enemy, 2 more maneuvres, 1 more sd
Level13: Fighter 8: +2 dex
Level14: Fighter 9: Indomitable
Level15: Fighter 10: superirity dice become d10s, 2 more maneuvres
Level16: Fighter 11: Extra attack(2)
Level17: Paladin 1: Lay on hands (5), divine sense
Level18: Paladin 2:Lay one hands (10), gwf style(?), 1st level spells (2 slots per day)
Level19: Paladin 3: Vow of enmity, abjure enemy (nice when archering), and divine health
Level20: Ranger or paladin 4 (to get more spell slots): GWM

spell slots: 4 (1st level), 2 (2nd level), so there is some smite potential.

Edit: Or reverse levels 17 and 20, getting a th level in ranger at 17 for GWM, and then take paladin 3 with your last 3 levels. This way you will bring GWM into play sooner. Though you delay smites and vow of enmity.

Belac93

2016-08-06, 08:29 PM

Wood Elf Champion fighter x/ranger 2/rogue 2, Archery, duelling, and great weapon fighting styles, and a couple of spells. Expertise in perception/survival and stealth.

Starting scores (point buy): STR 14, DEX 16, CON 14, INT 9, WIS 14, CHA 8.

Boost Dexterity up to 20, get Strength/Constitution/Wisdom as high as you want them, and then take some feats (defensive duelist/great weapon master/sharpshooter/resilient: Wisdom).

Wood elf gives free perception, +5 foot bonus speed (which works well with cunning action), and we can get by with a greatsword.

Foxhound438

2016-08-06, 09:00 PM

dex-based battlemaster fighter 5+/ rogue x, with a decent wis score (14 ish)

3 fighting styles isn't hugely great, you should probably focus on one thing. If you don't, you'd end up spending waaaay too long getting the things you want. Ten fighter levels for +2 to your ranged attack rolls is a lot worse than having precision attack at three. That said, you can squeeze 2 levels of ranger in there somewhere along the line if you really want multiple FS's.

skills would be good due to rogue levels, and a couple feats can boost them nicely (ie, observant)

take the outlander background

proficient with both longbow and rapier, and eventual sneak attack will boost both. Pick which one you will generally prefer to use at level 1, and pick your FS accordingly; maneuvers boost the other in any case.

any race is fine, preferably one that boosts dex. Elves of every choice stand out for having darkvision.

Wood elf is good for move speed boost, and eventual rogue levels give dash as a bonus action.

Leveling order would probably be fighter 1-5-> rogue however far you want to take that->possible 2 ranger levels->more fighter levels. Note that you want an ample amount of fighter, or else your second wind will be weak by the end of your career.

Degwerks

2016-08-07, 07:43 AM

I think using the UA variant Scout Fighter from the kits of old/classics revisited would be perfect for you. I think by 3rd level in scout fighter being a wood elf with outlander nets you 8 skills. All the outdoor ones, plus physical ones and medicine too. All armor/weapons, natural exlorer ranger ability and some superiority dice.

Boost dex and wisdom, take 3 levels of underdark ranger for extra goodies and another fighting style, maybe some barbarian and 2 levels of rogue for expertise. Focus on archery.

rudy

2016-08-07, 08:47 PM

I have a suggested build for this, because I was thinking of something similar. It doesn't meet all your requirements, but I think it is similar in spirit. Archery focused, and I think it remains very capable throughout, perhaps peaking at level 13/14. Rapier for backup, of course, with which he's quite competent. Beyond 14th level, well, we know there's only so much you can do if you're not a primary caster.

At level 13, it combines the Assassinate ability, the Underdark Scout ability, and a Stealth modifier of +15 along wish sharpshooter to have three attacks in the first round which are all at advantage, automatic criticals, with damage boosts from Sharpshooter (by level 14) and sneak attack. This depends on the use of the Deep Stalker ranger archetype from Unearthed Arcana stuff. If that's not allowed, then I wouldn't do the ranger levels of this build, but the first 10 levels remain the same either way.

Overall build order summary is Rogue 2 ==> Rogue 2/Fighter 6 ==> Rogue 4 / Fighter 6 / Ranger 4 ==> Rogue 8 / Fighter 8 / Ranger 4

Wood Elf
The obvious choice for this build.
* +2 Dex, +1 Wis. Perfect.
* Keen senses gets us a skill we would have would have wanted anyway,
* Darkvision is crucial for a stealthy character unless your DM doesn't bother with lighting,
* Fey Ancestry is not crucial, but a nice extra immunity.
* Trance makes you that much better of a midnight watchman which will be great with your perception.
* Elf Weapon training will help at first, because we're going to start off as a Rogue, so longbow instead of shortbow.
* Fleet of Foot: extra speed is great
* Mask of the Wild will be situationally useful, but great to hide with a bonus action when it applies.

Point buy: Str 12 Dex 15 Con 15 Int 8 Wis 13 Cha 8 ==> Str 12 Dex 17 Con 15 Int 8 Wis 14 Cha 8

Could you dump strength more? Sure, unless your GM is doing advanced encumbrance. Thematically, though, a weak character doesn't fit. Plus, there's not really anything we need to add here. (The exception would be if you want to take the excellent Observant feat later on, in which case you should drop Str to 10 and make Wis 15 to start. I wouldn't recommend it if your GM plays serious with Encumbrance, though; 50 pounds is surprisingly restrictive.)

If not playing with encumbrance, there's little harm in going Str 10 Int 10 instead, if you prefer not being slightly dim.

Background: Outlander. Fits the theme, gets us two good skills, and a nice Feature. If the GM permitted it, I would "customize" it to trade out the musical instrument for something more thematic, like cartographer's kit, navigation tools, or herbalism kit, but that's not crucial. Take a flute if needed.

We're going to take Rogue to level 2 for the excellent "Cunning Action" before switching to Fighter. The reason we start with Rogue and not fighter is that we actually end up with one more skill than if we did fighter first. The only things we'd get out of going fighter first would be 1 more hit point, and heavy armor proficiency. The latter we won't use at all, and 1 skill > 1 hp.

Level 1: Rogue
Tools: Thieves' Tools
Skills: Acrobatics, Insight, Investigation, Stealth
Expertise: Stealth & Perception.

So, after all is said in done, we have proficiency in the skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Insight, Investigation, Stealth, Perception, Survival. Certainly everything we could possibly need to be an amazing scout/skirmisher/survivalist. Expertise in Perception & Stealth just makes it all the better.

Sneak attack +1d6 is all we'll have for a while, but it's nothing to sneeze at.

Level 2: Rogue 2
We're here for the amazing 'Cunning Action', which is incredible for an archer especially. Hiding as a bonus action will sometimes let us set up sneak attack when other methods aren't possible, and dash & disengage make you all the better at hit & run.

Level 3: Fighter
Medium Armor proficiency here means we should switch to breastplate when we can afford it, UNLESS your GM is playing with advanced encumberance rules, in which case you're better sticking to Studded Leather. Once we hit Fighter 4 and bump dex up, studded leather will be just as good anyway.

Fighting Style. If permitted, Close-Quarters Shooter from Unearthed Arcana: Underdark. Gives +1 to all ranged attacks, let's you shoot a ranged weapon in melee without disadvantage, and lets you ignore half and 3/4 cover if within 30 feet. As long as your GM is actually using the cover rules of people in combat, this outclasses the general Archery Style. If cover of people in combat is usually ignored, or if this style isn't allowed, take the generic +2 to attack archery style.

Second Wind is nice, though generally not crucial by this level, especially since it competes with Cunning Action for the bonus action.

Level 4: Fighter 2
Action Surge, of course, is great. Especially if you can use it to trigger a second attack on an enemy's turn that qualifies for sneak attack (because sneak attack is once per turn, not once per round).

Level 5: Fighter 3
Hard, hard decision. To stick with your theme most closely, Champion is probably best, BUT I think Eldritch Knight makes a better choice here. "But we only have intelligence 8!" That doesn't matter if you don't pick spells with saving throws. Battle Master would be perfectly respectable as well. Depending on the campaign, Weapon Bond is excellent to avoid being disarmed. Put it on your bow and rapier.

Cantrips are Minor Illusion (can you say "instant battlefield cover"? Remember they need to take an action to save against it) and one other, but for 1st level spells I would go with shield, absorb elements and find familiar. The first two make good use of your currently empty reaction slot shoring up your defenses in a big way. Find familiar not only makes a great scout, but the owl in particular is an excellent combat buddy for setting up triggered sneak attacks in combination with your Action Surge. Their flyby thing and immunity to reactions makes them ideal. And, if an enemy decides to waste an action trying to kill them, then you can always resummon them later that day for 10 gp.

As an RP bonus, having a "animal spirit" with you fits with the nature theme in a weird way.

Level 6: Fighter 4
ASI: Dexterity +1, Con +1. Dex is now 18, Constitution is now 16. All around improvement to just about everything that matters. attack, damage, ac, dex save, stealth, hp, fort save.

For the extra 1st level spell, nothing jumps out at me as "must have", but there are several good options. I'd probably take "Protection from Evil and Good" or "Expeditious Retreat".

Level 7: Fighter 5
Extra Attack, baby. That's enough for this level.

Level 8: Fighter 6
ASI: Dexterity +2, now 20. And finally we're back on track with ASI improvements.

Level 9: Rogue 3
Take "Assassin". Bonus proficiences are potentially useful depending on the campaign, but mainly of course we want "Assassinate", here, for that great first round of combat.
Sneak Attack +2d6

Level 10: Rogue 4
ASI: Many good possibilities here. If the GM had disallowed the Close-Quarters Shooter fighting style before, I'd probably pick up Sharpshooter feat here. Otherwise, I'd probably go with Lucky because I favor a more survivability view, with saves becoming more crucial at this level. Either of those two are great choices regardless. Alert is a "runner up" in my mind, mainly because you should be sneaking around to get the drop on people, making initiative less crucial with your already high dexterity. It's still a solid choice, though.

Level 11: Ranger 1
Finally the Ranger. Let's be honest here, unless the campaign is very outdoorsy in the same type of environment, this level is kind of ****ty for Ranger. Favored Enemy (Human, Elf) is probably your best bet in encompassing a wide range of things you'll need to track (Drow, anyone?) though the choice can of course depend on the campaign. Terrain: Forest is generally best if you have no idea what to expect.
You get an extra skill at this point, though there's nothing you need terribly. Only ones you don't already have are Animal Handling and Nature; take your pick.

Level 12: Ranger 2
Fighting Style: If your GM will let you stack Close-Quarters Shooter with the Archery style, go for it. Man, that's crazy good. If not, then Fighting Style: Mariner is great from Unearthed Arcana. As long as you're not using Heavy Armor or a Shield (which you had better not be), it gives you +1 to AC and a swim and climb speed equal to your walking speed. So, for lightly armored people it's just plain better than "Armored".

Spellcasting: Hunter's Mark, obviously. The other spell can be whatever; I'd probably take Cure Wounds unless your party is packed full of healers already. Never know when you'll need to bring back your primary healer from death's door.

One thing to note here is that due to the multiclassing spell rules, you get 1/3rd of your fighter level (2) added to 1/2 of your ranger level (1) for a total of 3 to determine your spell slots per day on the multiclassing spell chart. So we actually have 4 1st level spell slots, and 2 2nd level spell slots for our combined spells from both classes! A little thing, but very nice. Even though we may not learn any 2nd level spells with this build, or at least not until much later, being able to upcast certain ones can be useful. In particular, both Absorb Elements and Cure Wounds can be upcast to level 2.

Level 13: Ranger 3
Another 1st level spell known of your choice. Primeval Awareness which is situationally useful. Add 'disguise self' to spells know. Fine.
Underdark Scout: +10 movement on the first round of combat (fine), and an extra attack in the first round. Nice! Think about how this is going to synergize with Assassinate. Three attacks in the first round, all of which are at advantage, and against surprised creatures are critical hits. Your job now is to get the drop on people. Luckily you have +15 on Stealth at this point, and that's without any outside assistance.

Level 14: Ranger 4
ASI: One of Lucky, Sharpshooter, or Alert again. Alert is now more valuable due to the increase in your first round decimation abilities, but these are all great. Sharpshooter's ability to take -5 to an attack to add +10 to damage is especially valuable in the opening round, when your advantage on all of your attacks makes it much "safer". Sadly, the +10 does not multiple on critical hits.

Spellcasting: Due to the multiclass spellcasting progression, you are now at 4 1st level and 3 2nd level slots as of this level.

---------------------

You're now Ranger 4 / Rogue 4 / Fighter 6. At your finest in the opening round of combat, you're a good striker throughout. You could really take the build in any of the three directions at this point, concentrating on any path. I would probably go with Rogue myself. Your four best options are:

* Ranger 4 / Rogue 10 / Fighter 6
This gets you two more ASIs, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, 3d6 additional sneak attack (+5d6 total), Expertise (maybe Acrobatics and Insight?), and the so-so "Infiltration Expertise"

* Ranger 4 / Rogue 8 / Fighter 8
This gets you two more ASIs, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, 2d6 additional sneak attack (+4d6 total), Expertise, two more 1st OR 2nd level spells known, War Magic (ability to cast a cantrip and do one attack). This option is my preference. War magic isn't crucial, so I would do the Rogue levels first.

* Ranger 4 / Rogue 4 / Fighter 12
This gets you two more ASIs, more Eldritch Knight spells known and bumps you up to 4 / 3 / 3 on the multiclass spellcasting, War Magic, Eldritch Strike (not useful for you), Extra Attack (2). The reason to consider this path is Extra Attack (2). Though, that will not be until character level 19, whereas the previous two paths have more immediate payoffs.

* Ranger 8 / Rogue 5 / Fighter 7
This gets you one more ASI, some favored enemy stuff, Iron Mind (proficiency in will saves), 4 / 3 / 3 on the multiclass spellcasting, 2nd level spells known for both Eldritch Knight and Ranger, 1d6 additional sneak attack, Uncanny Dodge, War Magic, Land's Stride. Overall, this gives you the best spellcasting if you're digging that.

Klorox

2016-08-07, 08:56 PM

Fix your point buy, rudy, and you've got a good set up. You can't get a 16 CON with point buy and an elf.

rudy

2016-08-07, 09:01 PM

Fix your point buy, rudy, and you've got a good set up. You can't get a 16 CON with point buy and an elf.

Whoops! Fixed. Don't know what I was thinking there. Now dex is 17, con is 15 to start, and they are both boosted at the first ASI. Unchanged after that.

Citan

2016-08-08, 04:20 AM

Posting this on another thread has got me wondering. ..

I'm very sure that other playgrounders have a better mastery of RAW than I do, so what's the "optimal", and "likely to survive getting there" build for these

Goals:

1) Three or four "Fighting Styles"
2) Good Perception skill
3) Good Stealth skill
4) Good Survival skill
5) Natural Explorer and/or Wanderer Feature
6) Proficient and effective with a Longbow
7) Proficient and effective with a Greatsword, Longsword, and/or a Rapier
8) Second Wind Feature
9) Medium Armor proficiency

"Nice to have, but not essential":

1) Darkvision
2) Heavy Armor proficiency
3) A fast movement rate.

Levels in what; and what order are best?
Hi! ;)

If you want to stay with those classes only, then I would suggest something such as this. Checks all, easy to build, efficient.

Start as Wood Elf for added mobility and skill.
Stats: STR 12, DEX 15 (+2), CON 14, INT 10, WIS 13 (+1), CHA 8.

1. Fighter 1: Armor, Weapon proficiencies, Constitution + Strength saving throws, first Fighting Style (Archery), skills (Perception and any other).
2. Fighter 2. Second Wind.
3. Fighter 3. Champion.
4. Fighter 4. ASI (DEX)
5. Fighter 5. Extra Attack.
6. Rogue 1. Expertise (Stealth, Perception).
7. Rogue 2. Cunning Action.
8. Fighter 6. ASI (Sharpshooter).
9. Ranger 1. Survival skill, Natural Explorer.
10. Ranger 2. Fighting Style (Defense/Mariner), spells (Hunter's Mark and Longstrider).
11. Ranger 3. Hunter (Horde Breaker).
12. Ranger 4. ASI (Resilient: DEX or bump CON by 2)
13. Rogue 3. Arcane Trickster (Shield, Booming Blade).
14. Fighter 7. Remarkable Athlete.
15. Fighter 8. ASI.
16. Fighter 9. Indomitable.
17. Fighter 10. Additional Fighting Style.
18. Fighter 11. Extra Attack (3).
19. Fighter 12. ASI.
20. Rogue 4. ASI.

There are several debatable choices I made here.
Arcane Trickster is not strictly required, but it gives you a nice cantrip for when you want to stall someone (Booming Blade), a panic button (Shield), bump your caster level by one and paves way for another ASI later. If those don't interest you, dump it for two levels in Fighter (>Fighter 14). As far as archery go in fact, it would be plain better (because lvl 11 Extra Attack comes sooner). Or take Assassin archetype if you like the surprises attacks.

I dumped CHA higher than INT because seemed more coherent thematically, but mechanically, dumping INT the highest would be better.

I put STR at 12 stat because realistically, you won't ever don heavy armor: you would need 15 STR for the best one which is too high to reach (unless you spend ASI on it) and, considering medium armor proficiency and your DEX, it will be plain better than the worst heavy armor that would need only 13 STR. So...

I chose an even, "limit" Constitution score to favor Resilient Dex. You could also tweak starting stats to start with 15 CON, then use first ASI to bump both DEX and CON, giving you a hefty bump in HP in the end.

Additionally, the build ends with two ASI, which may not interest you.

However, another build could work, although much more complex to build and MAD as hell.

You still start as Fighter, and you keep Rogue and Ranger dips, but you add Paladin into the mix.

End build Paladin 4 / Fighter 2 / Rogue 2 / Ranger 12.

Paladin brings Oath of Devotion brings +CHA to your weapon, you also gain another Fighting Style and useful spells as well as an ASI.

Main problem is stats and lesser ASI.
Only stat you can safely dump is INT. You have to keep CON to a decent level. CHA and DEX must be high.
So either start as Half-Elf (+2 CHA, +1 to other stats, skills).
STR 13, DEX 13 (+1), CON 12, INT 8, WIS 12 (+1), CHA 14 (+2).
Low DEX and CON will be somehow compensated by +3 CHA on attack rolls and heavy armor at the beginning.
Or go standard Human to get +1 to all the following stats:
STR 12, DEX 15, CON 13, INT 8, WIS 12, CHA 13
You start with decent DEX, CON and CHA, and you meet all requirements for multiclassing.

Start Fighter 1, then immediately Ranger up to 5, dip Rogue 2 for Expertise and Cunning Action, Paladin up to 4, then Ranger up to 11 for ASI and Volley, finish with Fighter and Ranger.

In the end, you get a decent number of spells slots to power your various Paladin buffs or Hunter's Mark, Sacred Weapon to give a good offset of Sharpshooter malus (with a CHA bump) and at least 3 attacks per turn.
Big problem is many of the synergies don't kick in until very late.
Either you take Paladin as soon as you can (but then you don't profit of Volley before very late), or you favor Volley (but then Paladin comes veeeeery late).

So I wouln't recommend it unless you like it and are used to complex, difficult builds (a sort of challenge ^^). ;)

At first, I thought about a build such as Rogue 2 / Ranger 3 / Paladin 3 / Eldricht Knight 12 (or Rogue 2 / Ranger 2 / Paladin 4 / Fighter 12 for two other ASI).
Using 3 Extra Attack and disadvantage against spells. But you could only use it with Paladin spells (basically Command and smite spells which are melee) so it's of very little use. And going Fighter 11 just for 3 attacks and ASI is little (You could go Champion to get the 4th Fighting Style though).

Rogue 3 because Arcane Trickster (spells) or Swashbuckler (+CHA to initiative) could have been great here but you require ASI so we keep it at two.

I chose Devotion Oath instead of Vengeance because...
- Vengeance is only 1-enemy so no synergy with Volley.
- Vengeance requires you to be within 5 feet of an enemy, which is totally contradictory with the concept of long-range sniper.

If you envisioned yourself more as a "melee crossbow master" though, then the build proposed by Corran just above would be the best plan.

JellyPooga

2016-08-08, 05:47 AM

Is Second Wind absolutely necessary, or do you just want some self-healing? If the latter, this just sounds like a pretty vanilla Ranger build to me, taking Cure Wounds as one of your spells known.

Whilst a pure Dex build is probably the most optimal route, I'd like to see this built for Greatsword too, for that real "switch-hitter" feel;

Race: Wood Elf

Str: 15
Dex: 14+2
Con: 12
Int: 8
Wis: 11+1
Cha: 10

Grab a +1 Str half-Feat at 4th level to bump that Strength up to 16 (Athletic is thematically appropriate), Archery Fighting Style and Cure Wounds. Ranger all the way baby! Solid build and meets all requirements (except the Second Wind thing). Alternate pumping Dex and Str, or just grab Feats that tickle your fancy.

Specter

2016-08-08, 10:36 AM

Frankly there's no reason to be good with great weapons, your sneak attack won't apply to them.

I guess the matter is if you want to have Ranger spells and abilities or Fighter extra feats and abilities, because one of these will have to be left at level 4 max (extra attack won't stack).

Dumping Ranger is a possibility if you go Outlander and expertise Survival with Rogue. I wouldn't, though, because Hunter's Mark and Colossus Slayer pump damage nicely.

I'm currently playing Specter, Hunter 9/Battlemaster 3/Assassin 3 (expertising Stealth and Athletics for the Metal Gear feel). It works out neatly, and even though I have Two Weapon Fighting, 99% of the time I'm using Archery and Sharpshooter. Don't bother with more than two fighting styles.

Optimally for damage and versatility? I'd say Battlemaster 10/Assassin 7/Hunter 3. Alternatively, EK10/Arcane Trickster 10 would give you magic without needing Ranger and loads of ASI's.

krunchyfrogg

2016-08-24, 03:28 PM

Nice thread. i might be borrowing some of these ideas!

djreynolds

2016-08-24, 11:50 PM