Polymorph Any Object questions/Ideas.

[Metahuman1]

Alright, so, I'm looking for ways, as the party's dedicated Arcane user, to give the party's only core only beginner some nice things to play with to let her keep pace. She is insistent on sticking to Core fighter and Barbarian on classes, and sticking to core feats.


Which leaves me Items and spells to give her some help.




So, I was looking at possibility's, and I happened to remember a game I was in years and years ago. In it, near the end and getting ready for the final boss battle, the party Wizard, looking for ways to buff the party fighter, hit on the idea of using one of the polymorph spells I think it was Polymorph any object, to turn the fighter into a Titan.




Having recalled this idea, I got to wondering, what would be the particulars of such, if I, as the mage, wanted to do this and wanted to make it stick long term, be? What would the fighter gain form this besides just some obvious physical stat boots? The DR? The SLA's? What?


What caster level would I need for this and what recommendations can be given for getting it boosted to meet that?

[Troacctid]

Polymorph any object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm) spells out the criteria you have to meet to make it permanent, so just check off as much as you can to hit a duration factor of 9+. Everything you need to know should be in the spell text (and the text of the polymorph and alter self spells, which it references).

[Metahuman1]

There's a list of criteria, which, near as I can tell looking at it, penalizes you for changing further away form what you already are to keep the duration shorter. (Unless I'm just having a dyslexic attack and the further away the thing your turning into is the longer you stay one, in which case one less thing to fuss with.)



I'm looking for ways to work on that and get the duration longer, while still turning the elf into a Titan. And once that's worked out, I'm looking for other things like caster level requirements to pull it off, and will likely get into some other details to make sure I've all my ducks in a row before propose this in character and to the DM OOC.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

There's a list of criteria, which, near as I can tell looking at it, penalizes you for changing further away form what you already are to keep the duration shorter. (Unless I'm just having a dyslexic attack and the further away the thing your turning into is the longer you stay one, in which case one less thing to fuss with.)

I'm looking for ways to work on that and get the duration longer, while still turning the elf into a Titan. And once that's worked out, I'm looking for other things like caster level requirements to pull it off, and will likely get into some other details to make sure I've all my ducks in a row before propose this in character and to the DM OOC.Casting polymorph any object once uses the duration it states in the spell's description. However, since you are already in the specified form, casting PAO again gives you a perfect match, extending the duration of the second casting to Permanent. You may also use an acorn of far travel (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040710a) from an oak tree on a timeless-in-regards-to-magic demiplane to make it permanent, as well, and if you use a device of PAO from Ravenloft: Legacy of the Blood to cast it, you can make it undispellable.

Just be sure that the Int of the new form is comparable to or higher than the character's original base Int, since that change is part of the spell. My preferred form is sarrukh, from Serpent Kingdoms. 30 base Int is niiiice.

If she wants to stay looking the same after her apotheosis, I've always been partial to doing a body swap via mind switch, casting PAO on myself to gain all of the benefits thereof, and then swapping back. The other creature keeps the new body, and I get to keep the new Int score. You can use this trick to give your mind a huge Int boost while your body is in the form of something with a huge Int penalty. Just PAO the other creature to turn it into a big, dumb brute while you're mind switched, before you switch back.

[Metahuman1]

Casting polymorph any object once uses the duration it states in the spell's description. However, since you are already in the specified form, casting PAO again gives you a perfect match, extending the duration of the second casting to Permanent. You may also use an acorn of far travel (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040710a) from an oak tree on a timeless-in-regards-to-magic demiplane to make it permanent, as well, and if you use a device of PAO from Ravenloft: Legacy of the Blood to cast it, you can make it undispellable.

Just be sure that the Int of the new form is comparable to or higher than the character's original base Int, since that change is part of the spell. My preferred form is sarrukh, from Serpent Kingdoms. 30 base Int is niiiice.

If she wants to stay looking the same after her apotheosis, I've always been partial to doing a body swap via mind switch, casting PAO on myself to gain all of the benefits thereof, and then swapping back. The other creature keeps the new body, and I get to keep the new Int score. You can use this trick to give your mind a huge Int boost while your body is in the form of something with a huge Int penalty. Just PAO the other creature to turn it into a big, dumb brute while you're mind switched, before you switch back.

See, now this? THIS is the kind of help I was hoping to find! XD!


Alright, so, cast and cast again to make it permanent. (Point of clarification on that: Permanent does mean it could still get wrecked with a really well placed Dispel Magic or shut down by an Anti-magic field, right? If so, it would be suppressed and come back, correct? )




Now, what about scaling her gear up. She's currently size category medium, but obviously she will be gaining two Size category's and her gear will need to do likewise. And the PAO spell says it can't change magic items.


The only idea I've had on this thus far is for her sword, to just spend 2,500 (I have crafting feats.) and give it the sizing property form the magic item compendium. So, yeah, defiantly open to suggestions for her other gear.

[Duke of Urrel]

See, now this? THIS is the kind of help I was hoping to find! XD!

Alright, so, cast and cast again to make it permanent. (Point of clarification on that: Permanent does mean it could still get wrecked with a really well placed Dispel Magic or shut down by an Anti-magic field, right? If so, it would be suppressed and come back, correct? )

Now, what about scaling her gear up. She's currently size category medium, but obviously she will be gaining two Size category's and her gear will need to do likewise. And the PAO spell says it can't change magic items.

The only idea I've had on this thus far is for her sword, to just spend 2,500 (I have crafting feats.) and give it the sizing property form the magic item compendium. So, yeah, defiantly open to suggestions for her other gear.

By my calculations, using Polymorph Any Object to change a human into a titan is permanent with only one casting.

Same kingdom (animal): duration factor +5
Same class (mammalian): duration factor +2
Related (same shape): duration factor +2
Total duration factor: 9, which means permanent.

Other dungeon masters may dispute whether a titan is an animal or a mammal, of course.

Yes, permanent DOES mean that a spell can be ended with a really well placed (Greater) Dispel Magic (or the Mage's Disjunction) or suppressed by an Antimagic Field. Yes, suppressed DOES mean that the spell takes effect again as soon as the Antimagic Field is removed.

I don't have any clever suggestions regarding magical gear. Of course, the Maul of the Titans becomes an attractive item if you're a titan...

[Morcleon]

Now, what about scaling her gear up. She's currently size category medium, but obviously she will be gaining two Size category's and her gear will need to do likewise. And the PAO spell says it can't change magic items.

Unless otherwise specified, magic items resize to fit their wearer. So her weapons and armor will need to be resized (probably with just another couple of PaO spells), but the rest will be fine.

[Metahuman1]

Duke of Urrel: That's awesome. If it works that way it made the process faster. If it doesn't, well, I still have the plan of cast it twice as a fall back, still cool info to have if the DM is agreeable too it thought! =)



Morcleon: Ok, so, that tid bit covers everything except weapons and armor then. Sweet. That leaves the weapons and armor to work out.


Weapons: Sizing property, Magic Item Compendium. Possibly get her a Ring of Reduction form Lords of Madness so she can go down a Size category or two initially to grab then and size them up a step at a time if needed. (Might need to get her the Ring anyway for RP purposes. )



That just leaves the magic armor, which, since it's magic, I don't think PAO will work on. Any suggestions?

[Duke of Urrel]

Ouch. Many apologies, but I've just found a snag.

Titans belong to the Outsider type. The spell Polymorph Any Object is based upon the Polymorph spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorph.htm), which does not allow you to change the subject into an Outsider unless the subject is already an Outsider.


The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin.

So unless your comrade already belongs to the Outsider type, you can't use the Polymorph Any Object spell to change him or her into a titan. You could change your comrade into a storm giant, though...

[Metahuman1]

*Checks storm giant stats.*

Wow, that's underwhelming for that CR. Nno oversized weapon ability and noticeably lower stats and no DR or SR. Freedom of Movement might make it acceptable if freedom of movement was actually accessible in the new form for the player, but I don't think it is, unless I'm reading it wrong?


Alright, anyone have a notion how to make an elf an outsider? Or enough of an Outsider to be Polymorph Any Object'ed into a Titan?

[Morcleon]

*Checks storm giant stats.*

Wow, that's underwhelming for that CR. Nno oversized weapon ability and noticeably lower stats and no DR or SR. Freedom of Movement might make it acceptable if freedom of movement was actually accessible in the new form for the player, but I don't think it is, unless I'm reading it wrong?


Alright, anyone have a notion how to make an elf an outsider? Or enough of an Outsider to be Polymorph Any Object'ed into a Titan?

The Otherwordly feat from Player's Guide to Faerun makes you a native outsider and a +2 to Diplomacy.

[Metahuman1]

Alright, that's cool, that's a starting point.



Questions: Would casting Heroics allow me to give her that feat for the duration? And would that be long enough to turn her into a Titan permanently? And would that, in turn, mean that when Heroics went away, there would be no more need to be concerned about it cause PAO being permanent would supersede that point and keep her that way?

[Morcleon]

Alright, that's cool, that's a starting point.



Questions: Would casting Heroics allow me to give her that feat for the duration? And would that be long enough to turn her into a Titan permanently? And would that, in turn, mean that when Heroics went away, there would be no more need to be concerned about it cause PAO being permanent would supersede that point and keep her that way?

You'd have to do Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle twice for it, since it's not a fighter bonus feat and can only be taken at level 1.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

See, now this? THIS is the kind of help I was hoping to find! XD!

Alright, so, cast and cast again to make it permanent. (Point of clarification on that: Permanent does mean it could still get wrecked with a really well placed Dispel Magic or shut down by an Anti-magic field, right? If so, it would be suppressed and come back, correct? )Remember that I also suggested using a device of PAO, from Ravenloft: Legacy of the Blood. Devices are non-magical versions of magic items. In other words, a scroll device of PAO produces a non-magical PAO. Since it is non-magical, it cannot be dispelled, does not go away in an antimagic field effect, and is not affected by Mordenkainen's dysfunction.


Now, what about scaling her gear up. She's currently size category medium, but obviously she will be gaining two Size category's and her gear will need to do likewise. And the PAO spell says it can't change magic items.Note that polymorph any object is based on polymorph, which itself is based on (and restricted by the restrictions of) alter self. You cannot use polymorph any object to take the form of a creature that is more than one size category away from you, in either direction. So a Medium creature can take the form of a Large creature, but not a Huge one -- at least, not normally. You'd need to cast enlarge person beforehand to take a Huge form. Unfortunately, as already stated, a Humanoid creature cannot become an Outsider using PAO, and enlarge person doesn't work on an Outsider, so you're locked out either way.

There are plenty of other high-Int critters out there, however, and lots of other critters with high physical stats for you to play around with.

You might also want to look into a psychoactive skin of proteus, in the SRD. You can PAO her into a high Int form, then she can use the at-will metamorphosis effect to become whatever she wants whenever she wants. Unlike polymorph and its derivatives, metamorphosis isn't limited on size.

...Or a hat of disguise works for a much cheaper but more limited option.


The only idea I've had on this thus far is for her sword, to just spend 2,500 (I have crafting feats.) and give it the sizing property form the magic item compendium. So, yeah, defiantly open to suggestions for her other gear.As noted, most magic items resize to fit the wearer. Weapons and shields (because shields are bashing weapons) have the option of the the resizing property, and there are lots of ways to replace armor with non-armor items (psychoactive skin of ectoplasmic armor, monk's belt, cloak of displacement, etc) or spells (mage armor, greater/luminous armor, etc).


Alright, that's cool, that's a starting point.

Questions: Would casting Heroics allow me to give her that feat for the duration?Heroics only works if you use the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle to swap it out for Otherworldly before heroics ends, and I think you'll need to be holding some (un)holy arrows for the negative levels to qualify for Otherworldly, since it's a 1st level only feat.


And would that be long enough to turn her into a Titan permanently?If you managed to get hold of Otherworldly, it should do the trick, yes...assuming you ALSO had a way to break the 15 HD cap that PAO inherits from polymorph. The Reserves of Strength feat could technically do it, but it requires a slightly lax reading.

I'd suggest doing the body swap thing, then using PAO for a 30 Int sarrukh, and then changing the other body for a phasm and giving her the Assume Supernatural Ability (Phasm's Alternate Form) feat, or something. It's a watered down version of the psychoactive skin of proteus, but it will save you more than 80,000 gp.


And would that, in turn, mean that when Heroics went away, there would be no more need to be concerned about it cause PAO being permanent would supersede that point and keep her that way?The spell effect is still Permanent even after Otherworldly goes away, since the duration was Permanent when it was cast.

[Metahuman1]

Psionic's are banned, sadly and much to my Ire. Especially right now. *Sigh.*



So, the device scroll is good stuff.

MaxiDuRaritry: Um, just to make 100% certain we are on the same page. I am looking into how my character can do this. But my character will not be doing it/for himself. He will be doing it to/for a party member. Who is trying to play a core fighter/core barbarian multyclass in a party with, among other things, a Sorerer/Mage of the Arcane Order (Soon to add Red Wizard to that list. That's my PC by the way.), A Warblade/Swordsage/Iai-jutsu Master and Wizard/Warblade/Swiftblade.


Since obviously the fighter player is gonna lag behind, I want to do something that will give her some extra power to throw around so she can at least be good at what she was/is trying to be good at. She'll still want for versatility and likely in the end for raw power, but the disparity in the latter can, I hope, be reduced enough to let her keep pace and still be able to do cool/fun things with out us having to spend twenty minutes dropping buffs on her first every time she tries. (Give this too her, and now it's her's forever to do stuff with is the idea.).

This is also why I'm not super worried about the Int score and VASTLY more interested in Bruiser Stats and things that are nice for melee like High hard to bypass DR, Fast Healing, Stupidly high SR, Special abilitys that normally need spells or pricy Items, maybe extra attacks if there good, Big size catagorys, High Str, Con, and if it can be had DEX.

However to accommodate the new players desire to try and use a minimal amount of splatbook stuff, I'm trying to, ideally, have the final form be a core humanoid (meaning NOT the type, but rather has 1 head, 2 arms, 2 legs, torso, or something fairly close to that. (Having wings or 1 extra set of arms or a tail let's say could be tolerable for the purpose.) that can use weapons and use them 2 handed with out jumping through a lot of hoops.

I hit on Titan cause I remembered something from a game LONG ago about it, and it met the criteria.



Back too it:


Hmmmmm, Party does have a cleric. If I got him to cast Righteous Might on her, would that do for the purposes of making the PAO work as intended? She'd be large and A Titan is Hugh, so she'd be inside one side category.



Alright, well, Dark Chaos Shuffle might be problematic to come by in a timely fashion right now for story reasons. Hmmmmm, what about making her a magic item that lets the wearer gain the benefits of the feat? Like those gloves in Magic Item Compendium that give you Two Weapon Fighting and Greater Two Weapon Fighting, but for Otherworldly?





... ... ... ... the 15 HD are STILL in effect for an 8th level spell?! I though for certain they'd have raise them by that point! *Sigh.* Alright, I don't have access to Reserves of Strength at the moment. What is it and what book is it in so I can see if I can acquire it long enough to make this work. Failing that, any other ways around that HD cap? Cause, even if I have to settle for a Cloud or Storm Giant, I still need to get past that.


That is VERY good to hear.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Psionic's are banned, sadly and much to my Ire. Especially right now. *Sigh.*Okay, so the psychoactive skins are out, but phasm form (with Assume Supernatural Ability, from Savage Species) is still a potential thing. That would give her a LOT of versatility, basically at-will shapeshifting, within the rules given for the phasm's alternate form ability.

If you want to mix and match mental and physical ability scores via PAO, you can always use magic jar instead of mind switch. You might need an extra body to utilize it properly, though. Switch minds in and out of the magic jar container until you have the proper minds in the proper bodies for all the PAO goodness you want.


So, the device scroll is good stuff.It is.


MaxiDuRaritry: Um, just to make 100% certain we are on the same page. I am looking into how my character can do this. But my character will not be doing it/for himself. He will be doing it to/for a party member. Who is trying to play a core fighter/core barbarian multyclass in a party with, among other things, a Sorerer/Mage of the Arcane Order (Soon to add Red Wizard to that list. That's my PC by the way.), A Warblade/Swordsage/Iai-jutsu Master and Wizard/Warblade/Swiftblade.Yeah, I think I got a little lost as to the basics of what we were doing this for. Thanks for reiterating it.


Since obviously the fighter player is gonna lag behind, I want to do something that will give her some extra power to throw around so she can at least be good at what she was/is trying to be good at. She'll still want for versatility and likely in the end for raw power, but the disparity in the latter can, I hope, be reduced enough to let her keep pace and still be able to do cool/fun things with out us having to spend twenty minutes dropping buffs on her first every time she tries. (Give this too her, and now it's her's forever to do stuff with is the idea.).Phasm (and Assume Supernatural Ability) will give her the most bang for her buck, versatility-wise, and it fits within the HD limitations of PAO.


This is also why I'm not super worried about the Int score and VASTLY more interested in Bruiser Stats and things that are nice for melee like High hard to bypass DR, Fast Healing, Stupidly high SR, Special abilitys that normally need spells or pricy Items, maybe extra attacks if there good, Big size catagorys, High Str, Con, and if it can be had DEX.You don't get special qualities via PAO, only special attacks. So no DR, fast healing, SR, or defensive special abilities. It will, however, give Large size (which can be boosted to Huge via items and spells), and PAO (and the phasm's alternate form special ability, if you go that route) will give Str, Dex, and most of Con (sans HP).


However to accommodate the new players desire to try and use a minimal amount of splatbook stuff, I'm trying to, ideally, have the final form be a core humanoid (meaning NOT the type, but rather has 1 head, 2 arms, 2 legs, torso, or something fairly close to that. (Having wings or 1 extra set of arms or a tail let's say could be tolerable for the purpose.) that can use weapons and use them 2 handed with out jumping through a lot of hoops.While phasm isn't humanoid-shape, it can take forms that are. Otherwise, look through the list of giants and see which one piques your interest the most.


I hit on Titan cause I remembered something from a game LONG ago about it, and it met the criteria.I think using PAO to become a titan is far more trouble than it's worth, unless you can find an easier-to-utilize effect than jumping through all the hoops required for Otherworldly. The Mulhourandi divine minion template (http://www.realmshelps.net/faerun/lore/magicbooks13.shtml), for example, is an acquired template that changes you into an outsider. Then you could use a Reserves of Strength'd PAO at CL 20 to turn her into a titan after some size-altering magic to get past the size limitations. That's still more annoying than simply double-PAOing into a phasm and taking the Assume Supernatural Ability feat, though.


Hmmmmm, Party does have a cleric. If I got him to cast Righteous Might on her, would that do for the purposes of making the PAO work as intended? She'd be large and A Titan is Hugh, so she'd be inside one side category.Righteous might is self-only. You'd need a spellblade (from Player's Guide to Faerun) keyed to righteous might for that to work, which would allow the cleric to redirect the spell effect onto others.


Alright, well, Dark Chaos Shuffle might be problematic to come by in a timely fashion right now for story reasons. Hmmmmm, what about making her a magic item that lets the wearer gain the benefits of the feat? Like those gloves in Magic Item Compendium that give you Two Weapon Fighting and Greater Two Weapon Fighting, but for Otherworldly?A.) It's a custom item, and B.) items that grant feats require the crafter to have the feat, so you'd have to have Otherworldly yourself or work with someone who already has it to get it to work.


... ... ... ... the 15 HD are STILL in effect for an 8th level spell?! I though for certain they'd have raise them by that point! *Sigh.*That restriction isn't lifted until shapechange comes into play.


Alright, I don't have access to Reserves of Strength at the moment. What is it and what book is it in so I can see if I can acquire it long enough to make this work.It's a feat from the Dragonlance Campaign Setting, pg 86. It allows you to add up to +3 CL onto the spells you cast in exchange for stunning yourself for a few rounds, and it allows you to break the numerical caps on spells. The wording is a bit weird, so instead of breaking the numerical cap by up to +3 up to the spell's maximum, which was probably (but not necessarily) the intent, it just breaks numerical caps, period, allowing you to go above and beyond the spell's maximum, up to your CL.


Failing that, any other ways around that HD cap? Cause, even if I have to settle for a Cloud or Storm Giant, I still need to get past that.Phasm has no HD limits on its alternate form ability, which means epic forms are perfectly viable, though you are still limited to Large size. Other than that, not that I'm aware of.

[Metahuman1]

Would she have to be the one to Take Assume Supernatural Ability, or would I be taking it for her since I'm the mage casting the polymorph spell?




Looking at Gaints, Cloud and Storm are probably the most powerful looking in terms of what I'd actually get. Freedom of Movement would have been wonderful on Storm Giant, but since that's not Ex, guess that doesn't come with. It doesn't say if Immunity to Electricity is Ex or Su, so, can someone clarify? The swimming and water breathing are Bennies I guess. And If I enlarged her right before and borrowed the spell via Mage of the Arcane Order Storm would get her into a hugh body with Str not THAT much lower then a titan.


Cloud: Oversized weapon would be spiffy, Low Light vision one step shy of useless and Scent might have been useful if she'd kept max ranks in Survival but I don't think she did. Rock Catching is kind of a joke though. Less Str then Storm Giant as well, thought still size hugh. And reachable.


I think this will depend on if Assume Supernatural Ability is a feat the caster or the target needs to gain the benefits there of, and possibly weather Electricity Damage Immunity comes with the turf on Storm Giant or not.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Would she have to be the one to Take Assume Supernatural Ability, or would I be taking it for her since I'm the mage casting the polymorph spell?She would be, since the feat is contingent on the current form of the person using the feat. You would turn her into a different creature, and she would take Assume Supernatural Ability for the specific (Su) ability she wants for that form.


Looking at Gaints, Cloud and Storm are probably the most powerful looking in terms of what I'd actually get. Freedom of Movement would have been wonderful on Storm Giant, but since that's not Ex, guess that doesn't come with. It doesn't say if Immunity to Electricity is Ex or Su, so, can someone clarify? The swimming and water breathing are Bennies I guess. And If I enlarged her right before and borrowed the spell via Mage of the Arcane Order Storm would get her into a hugh body with Str not THAT much lower then a titan.Anything that isn't specified is generally considered a natural ability, which I do believe she would get. Check the top of the page here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm). As well as the text on alter self.


Cloud: Oversized weapon would be spiffy, Low Light vision one step shy of useless and Scent might have been useful if she'd kept max ranks in Survival but I don't think she did. Rock Catching is kind of a joke though. Less Str then Storm Giant as well, thought still size hugh. And reachable.Remember, she doesn't get most special qualities (except natural ones, I think). No LLV, no scent, no rock catching.


I think this will depend on if Assume Supernatural Ability is a feat the caster or the target needs to gain the benefits there of, and possibly weather Electricity Damage Immunity comes with the turf on Storm Giant or not.Again, she's the one who takes ASA, not you.

[Duke of Urrel]

Note that polymorph any object is based on polymorph, which itself is based on (and restricted by the restrictions of) alter self. You cannot use polymorph any object to take the form of a creature that is more than one size category away from you, in either direction.

This is true by the Rules As Written. However, if you have a persuadable Dungeon Master, you might want to refer him or her to the following semi-canonical text, from page 77 of the D&D Frequently Asked Questions (30th of June 2008) (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a):


Alter self (PH 197), the base spell in the polymorph chain, says that the new form must be within one size category of your normal size. Is the same true of other spells in the chain?

Not necessarily, although the rules aren’t as clear as they could be. Polymorph, and any spell that refers back to it (such as polymorph any object), allows the new form to be of any size of Fine or greater. Shapechange specifically delineates its size limitations (Fine to Colossal), which is a much clearer way of saying the same thing.

When I call this passage "semi-canonical," I am alluding to the oft-repeated statement (originating with Curmudgeon, I believe), that although the questions in the D&D Frequently Asked Questions are canonical, the answers are not. As always, ask your DM.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

This is true by the Rules As Written. However, if you have a persuadable Dungeon Master, you might want to refer him or her to the following semi-canonical text, from page 77 of the D&D Frequently Asked Questions (30th of June 2008) (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a):

When I call this passage "semi-canonical," I am alluding to the oft-repeated statement (originating with Curmudgeon, I believe), that although the questions in the D&D Frequently Asked Questions are canonical, the answers are not. As always, ask your DM.While pursuading the DM to allow that would be fun, as you said, RAW keeps the restriction in place. The way it is now simply restricts you from taking forms smaller than Fine if you are Fine sized yourself.

[Metahuman1]

Damn. I'm starting to see why casters don't buff the Melee. It's actually HARDER to buff them.



So, it's a +4 Str and Immunity to Electricity and Water Breathing Vs. Oversized weapon. Right. Storm Giant it is I think. (Don't suppose there's an easy way to get the Storm Giant to have the Oversized Weapon property as well?)

[Troacctid]

Anyone can get the overside weapon ability with a major titan bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#titan).

[Metahuman1]

Don't have 12 levels to put into it left in the game.






Hmmmmm, would an Item of Alter Self allow her to just pick that ability up after she's been turned into a storm giant?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Hmmmmm, would an Item of Alter Self allow her to just pick that ability up after she's been turned into a storm giant?Alter self only turns you into another creature of the same type, so Giant -> Giant. Since titans are still Outsiders...

[Troacctid]

Don't have 12 levels to put into it left in the game.
It's only three levels for a major bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm), but you have to be a 12th level character to gain the oversized weapon ability.

[Metahuman1]

Alter self only turns you into another creature of the same type, so Giant -> Giant. Since titans are still Outsiders...

Right, but I was asking about borrowing the oversized weapon ability form Cloud Giant and moving it over to Storm Giant. Would that work?





Edit: Also, the device rules, what page of Ravenloft: Legacy of the Blood are they on?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Right, but I was asking about borrowing the oversized weapon ability form Cloud Giant and moving it over to Storm Giant. Would that work?Well, you would definitely have to break alter self's HD cap via Reserves of Strength, but even then, Oversized Weapon is an (Ex) special quality, so no, that doesn't work.

However, you could use it to gain an additional size category from the deal, and there's a pair of gauntlets that would allow you to wield an oversized weapon.


Edit: Also, the device rules, what page of Ravenloft: Legacy of the Blood are they on?They're in Chapter 7, and start on page 91 with the Create Device feat, and the devices start in the item section, which starts on page 98.

[Metahuman1]

Right, duly noted then.




Edit: Alright, I think I've got what I need on this front. I'll check back in if I find any additional bumps.