3.5 kenku's mimicry feature: Cheese or fluff

[Broutchev]

I was re-reading the Monster manual 3 entry for the Kenku, and facing the mimicry feature, I had some questions, mostly how far this ability can be game-breaking or not at all.

As it appears in the MMIII

Mimicry (Ex): A kenku can perfectly mimic familiar sounds, voices, and accents. This ability does not enable the kenku to speak languages it can’t normally speak. To duplicate a specific individual’s voice, a kenku makes a Bluff check; a listener familiar with the voice being imitated must succeed on an opposed Sense Motive check to discern that the voice isn’t genuine.

1- It's not clear how familiar sounds and such must be. I guess Dm ruling is the best option.

2- It can't allow speaking languages the Kenku can,t normally speak, but it can reproduce sounds it heard, so a Kenku could be saying Orcish words in a nonsensical manner and to everyone not speaking Orcish, they would still assume Orcs are nearby, right?

3- Unlike the bard spell of the same name in complete scoundrel, there's no restriction on loudness or pitch:
''[These sounds can be any that you've heard before], and must be within the range of noises your voice is capable of creating.'' Logic would make sense to overlap the spell restrictions. In my opinion.

4- The only part where someone can roll is when you bluff someone else voice, does it really mean you can mimic a sound and unlike visual illusions, no one is entitled a will save to disbelieve?

If there is no save at all to any sound, I really think the class feature is some raw cheese, and since I haven't found much on the subject I'm really wondering. Do any of you can shed a light?

[OldTrees1]

Please elaborate on why you were expecting a save under (4). It is not an illusion, merely a sound that is close enough to authentic that one needs to oppose a bluff check to identify the difference. Consider the spot check to notice mundane disguises for reference.

[Broutchev]

Please elaborate on why you were expecting a save under (4). It is not an illusion, merely a sound that is close enough to authentic that one needs to oppose a bluff check to identify the difference. Consider the spot check to notice mundane disguises for reference.

It is quite specific, the bluff is only when mimicking a familiar voice, but unfamiliar voice or other sounds, well nowhere it is written you make bluff checks.

I would think a Perform (mimicry) to bluff against a sense motive in checks when it is outside of said mimicking a familiar voice, should be an option, but no there's just nothing about those situations.

[OldTrees1]

It is quite specific, the bluff is only when mimicking a familiar voice, but unfamiliar voice or other sounds, well nowhere it is written you make bluff checks.

I would think a Perform (mimicry) to bluff against a sense motive in checks when it is outside of said mimicking a familiar voice, should be an option, but no there's just nothing about those situations.

The check is rolled when:
The kenku wants to mimic a specific person's voice && someone familiar with that person's voice is listening

Basically there are 2 conditions that either by themselves would make the task harder but kenku are so good they only have to roll when both of those difficulties happen.

As a DM, I would allow the player to substitute in any voice based preform check or perhaps even a voice based profession check. Some circumstance modifiers may apply.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Basically, it's a mix between an at-will Listen to This skill trick and the ability to substitute Bluff for Perform (Mimicry).

It's really not that bad.

[Darrin]

I've never really considered mimicry to be all that useful. But if it creates an identical sound, then can it replicate:

Bardic music?
Orb of sound?
Great shout?
Wail of the banshee?
Siren abilities?

[Necroticplague]

No, because no part of the text says it can replicate spells. There's magic to the spells besides just the loud noise created.

Now, on reply to the OP: Yes, you can perfectly re-create noises without a skill check. However, this is entirely separate from your ability to make others believe things because of your perfectly recreated noise. After all, my speakers can do a perfect mimicry of an elephant, so if I hear an elephant noise, I'll think speakers, not elephants. You'd need to add in a little bit of something extra to your performance to make me think there was an elephant where I live. Thus, the Kenku's mimicry, if trying to fool someone, still requires a skill check (most the time, bluff).

[OldTrees1]

Thus, the Kenku's mimicry, if trying to fool someone, still requires a skill check (most the time, bluff).

True.

How would you rule the following:
A kenku disguised as someone is mimicing a that person's voice in order to trick a relative that they are that specific someone.

Would that be 1 bluff check or 2?

My instinct would be 1 disguise check for the disguise, 1 bluff check to mimic the voice, & 1 bluff check to impersonate. However 3 rolls sounds a bit much.

[daremetoidareyo]

No, because no part of the text says it can replicate spells. There's magic to the spells besides just the loud noise created.

Now, on reply to the OP: Yes, you can perfectly re-create noises without a skill check. However, this is entirely separate from your ability to make others believe things because of your perfectly recreated noise. After all, my speakers can do a perfect mimicry of an elephant, so if I hear an elephant noise, I'll think speakers, not elephants. You'd need to add in a little bit of something extra to your performance to make me think there was an elephant where I live. Thus, the Kenku's mimicry, if trying to fool someone, still requires a skill check (most the time, bluff).

how about sonic (ex) abilities?

[Necroticplague]

how about sonic (ex) abilities?
Again, abilities do not a single thing more than they say. Unless it specifically says it can be used to emulate a different ability, it can't.

[Thurbane]

A lot of D&D monsters have similar "mimicry" abilities (Leucrotta, Green Hag etc.), mainly as a legacy from earlier editions.

IMHO, it should be about as useful as a 0 level spell like Ghost Sound, or add a +2 circumstance bonus to Bluff or Disguise checks, unless the ability specifically states something different.

[Bucky]

I've never really considered mimicry to be all that useful. But if it creates an identical sound, then can it replicate:

Bardic music?
Orb of sound?
Great shout?
Wail of the banshee?
Siren abilities?

I would rule that a Kenku can't replicate these, but it can mimic them to where a listener couldn't tell the difference if it wouldn't affect them. So they could bluff enemies into thinking they're using bardic music (without even rolling the bluff check!!!). If they're somehow very familiar with the sound of a Wail of the Banshee, they can do a convincing imitation that fools everyone farther than 40' from them, but anyone closer than that knows they didn't need to make a save to not die. And so on.

[Thurbane]

I would rule that a Kenku can't replicate these, but it can mimic them to where a listener couldn't tell the difference if it wouldn't affect them. So they could bluff enemies into thinking they're using bardic music (without even rolling the bluff check!!!). If they're somehow very familiar with the sound of a Wail of the Banshee, they can do a convincing imitation that fools everyone farther than 40' from them, but anyone closer than that knows they didn't need to make a save to not die. And so on.

That seems like a pretty fair assessment to me. :smallsmile: